Freedom Now

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MeFree
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Re: Freedom Now

Postby MeFree » Wed Aug 19, 2020 6:13 pm

Hi Ilona
Sometimes it seems like the dysfunctional patterns do serve the purpose of maintaining identity.
Aha, this might be it. What is that needs an identity?
This is a great question! I have no answer!

That which needs an identity can not be identified! Ha! That's why it always needs to find some identity! Exactly because it is unidentifiable.

I do feel a kind of social pressure to have some sort of fixed identity.... But that could be my own projection... Like everybody else has an identity and I'm expected to have one too! There is also a strong inner drive to have some sort of personal identity, regardless if it is positive or negative. Where does that inner drive come from? Am I doing it or is it just happening? It is just happening, I can't stop it or control it.
What is that has an identity and needs to maintain it?
Another great question! Still no answer. Not a clue!

I can see that identity is not inherent in the thing. The identity "bird" is not inherent in the being we call "bird". It's not like the bird is thinking "I am a bird. I'm a red Robin in fact. I'd like to fly better, if I could fly better maybe my mother would love me".

Identity is not inherent in the thing, it is created by the mind. Identity is created through language, and associating the language with perceptions, feelings, images, sensations.

Identity is not inherent in the thing, but here I am, believing that there is an inherent "me" with all of these specific characteristics that are accurate descriptions of "me".
Are you here with and without identity?
There can be an "I" self here with a strong identity OR with no specific identity beyond "just me, here".

There can also be the case where there is no particular identity as well as no I self.

Or do you need to be someone to exist?
Existence continues in either case. But apparently I need to be someone in order to exist "as me".

The mind has automatic programs running in the background constantly. One of those programs is comparing what is happening to what I want to be happening. It is completely out of my control yet causes me more suffering. It's not even at the level of thoughts, it is more pre-thought and shows up as moods and attitudes.
Yes, well noticed. There are automatic programs running. One of them is the program called “I want.”
What is behind the wanting?
The wanting of the present/past to be different is driven by pain/suffering and the belief that anything could be different than it already is/was. The future wanting is based on the belief that I can change the future, or at least influence what occurs. In either case it is a futile attempt to alleviate suffering. In fact it really just creates more suffering. But I can't stop it.
What is that wants?
Wants come from the mind, which I am highly identified with apparently, since it really does seem like the wants come from "me". But really I don't get to choose what I want, the wants just show up.
What is that has no control?
The mind really has no control, although it believes that it does. The "I" doesn't have control either, although I want to have it.....

Hmmm, in this moment there is no such thing as control or no control. Things just happen or they don't. The whole idea of control is irrelevant! There is nothing in control! Usually it's like this: if I'm not in control then that means I am being controlled by something else! But right now the whole idea of control or being controlled is meaningless!

See- these are also programs running. Wanting, not wanting- are you doing that or does it show up?
Wanting shows up. Sometimes there is stronger identification with the wanting, sometimes less identification.
And where does wanting come from?
Wanting doesn't come from anywhere. It just shows up spontaneously. And then I am burdened with the effort to fulfill the desire. And suffer if I am unable to fulfill the desire.
Is there wanting not to want?
Occasionally this shows up but mostly there is a very strong wanting to be capable/powerful/fearless enough to fulfill the want. (And so often feeling the intense frustration of being incapable of fulfilling the want).

There is another automatic mind program running coexisting with wanting which is ensuring that the wants are not fulfilled. The "must be frustrated" program. Thinking endlessly about all the things I want to do but won't happen for one reason or another. All of the things that I wanted to have done in the past that I didn't do. And all of the things I want to be doing now but I'm not doing. And all of the things I want to do in the future that I won't do. It's like there is this program that is ensuring that I am frustrated all of the time! That is its purpose! To make sure that I am experiencing frustration! And it works very well because I am almost continuously frustrated in one way or another. As to why I have this particular program it is unclear...
Btw, there is no i to get enlightened. You will not get enlightened. So instead of trying to become, look at what is real, what is here, underneath all happenings. Freedom is not from unwanted programs, but to feel and live fully as life shows up.
Yes I understand that it is about being free IN things as they are, rather than freedom TO or freedom FROM.
Fighting what is is optional. And fight ceases, when it’s seen as useless.
So we can examine, what is the use of fighting what is.
Yes, what is the use of fighting what is? Another great question!

It does seem like a futile thing to be doing! But continues on and on and on. Maybe the fighting is part of the "must always be frustrated" program? Hmmm. Being frustrated is pretty effortless. It just goes on its own with no effort on my part. Although I really would prefer to not always be so frustrated with everything all the time!

Ok this post has a lot in it! I better stop now.
Thank you Ilona!

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Ilona
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Re: Freedom Now

Postby Ilona » Thu Aug 20, 2020 6:01 am

Thank you for honesty and openness. Great insights.
Existence continues in either case. But apparently I need to be someone in order to exist "as me".
Interesting. What does word me refer to? An image? A sensation, an idea? What is this word “me” pointing to in actuality?
in your own words, what is the accurate description of “me” that exists.

Here is my last video, that may help to untangle https://youtu.be/Sl4Ajb7rbE0

Nice to notice, that the idea of control is meaningless. All is happening by itself, unfolding spontaneously and naturally. So is this frustration, happening by itself and wanting it to be different too.
Can this be allowed too? Or do you need to try to change the pattern?

Love.

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MeFree
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Re: Freedom Now

Postby MeFree » Fri Aug 21, 2020 7:22 pm

Hi Ilona

It's funny, I can never predict which parts of my posts you are going to ask me to look at further. Ok here is today's post:
Existence continues in either case. But apparently I need to be someone in order to exist "as me".

Interesting. What does word me refer to? An image? A sensation, an idea? What is this word “me” pointing to in actuality?
in your own words, what is the accurate description of “me” that exists.

Me = all of the above. Mind, body, images, sensations, personality, thoughts, feelings, patterns, awareness. The whole conglomeration of these so called "parts". There is no one thing that is "me". Me is the totally of the awareness and expressions of this particular conscious being. Me is "this", but there is no one thing that I can point to that is "this". That is my experience. It could very well be that "me" is entirely conceptual but that is not the actual ongoing experience. I am open to the possibility that "me" is a conceptual construct but that is not how it is experienced. Me has so much reality that it must be a real thing!

It is interesting that developmently the sense of being a separate self occurs at the same age as the learning of language. And also interesting how the labels/names for things are somehow taken for the inherent identity of those things. Like when children point at something and ask "what is that?" and the adult says "that's a tree". So now That IS a tree. It's not really knowable what a tree actually IS but there is a name for it. Same with "me". Me is essentially unknowable and unidentifiable as such. The best I can do is point at this body and say "me'.


Here is my last video, that may help to untangle https://youtu.be/Sl4Ajb7rbE0

The video was very good. Very clear. I do agree with everything you said. I understand that I am not the image of me, I am not the character in the story. But there is this "I" that is saying that I am not the character in the story. Sometimes I still get sucked into the story. Probably most of the time. But also some times free of the story. Either way there is an I here, even if I am not the character. The imaginary self may not be as complex as it used to be but I think that the imagination is still in charge. I am that which is creating/experiencing the imaginary character.

Nice to notice, that the idea of control is meaningless. All is happening by itself, unfolding spontaneously and naturally. So is this frustration, happening by itself and wanting it to be different too.
Can this be allowed too? Or do you need to try to change the pattern?

Need to change the pattern, definitely. But if allowing it to be will result in it changing then I'm open to allowing it. As it is I am finding these patterns to be almost unbearable to live with! Frustration is slowly killing me....but do I really have any choice about allowing or changing? All that is happening, and will continue to happen (or not) on its own. Ugh, feeling trapped!! I really do hate the constant frustration. Apparently allowing or fighting is also just happening, so why do you ask which I prefer? If I have no control, then I also have no choice about that either! Wow, feeling super trapped and frustrated just looking into this!! The idea of not having any control over anything really triggers some early childhood trauma stuff! Ugh. In any case I find the "frustration program" to be quite intolerable and really wears me out. Makes life very unpleasant!

Ok that's it for now.
Thank you!

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Re: Freedom Now

Postby Ilona » Sun Aug 23, 2020 1:27 pm

Thank you very much for full answers.
A few questions.....
It could very well be that "me" is entirely conceptual but that is not the actual ongoing experience. I am open to the possibility that "me" is a conceptual construct but that is not how it is experienced. Me has so much reality that it must be a real thing!
Right. It must be! But is it? Is me a real thing? What is the evidence of that in actuality? Can you see, touch, hear, smell, taste “me”
Can you see touch hear a unicorn?
What is the difference between “me” and a unicorn, based on actual experience?

Yes, frustration is not peasant. I agree. But should life be pleasant? I see that life is a full spectrum of various experiences and that wanting to have only pleasant is the tension in itself.

So what is the message if the tension? Can you find out, what it wants you to know, what wisdom is in the tension? Ok, you can see, that it can not be controlled. It just is. So do you need to fight it?

I hear you about childhood trauma. I am sorry, it happened.. could the past be different?
Write what comes up, how do you see? Is it time to heal fully?

Love.

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Re: Freedom Now

Postby MeFree » Mon Aug 24, 2020 5:45 pm

Hi Ilona
It could very well be that "me" is entirely conceptual but that is not the actual ongoing experience. I am open to the possibility that "me" is a conceptual construct but that is not how it is experienced. Me has so much reality that it must be a real thing!
Right. It must be! But is it? Is me a real thing? What is the evidence of that in actuality? Can you see, touch, hear, smell, taste “me”
Can you see touch hear a unicorn?
What is the difference between “me” and a unicorn, based on actual experience?[/quote]
I can't find a me yet there is a belief in a me. Yes, like a unicorn, or Santa Claus. But with Santa Claus I can see my parents putting the gifts under the tree. The unicorn has never been photographed or seen in a zoo. Me? I am right here! Me is the location this body/mind occupies. Me is the believer in the beliefs!
Yes, frustration is not peasant. I agree. But should life be pleasant? I see that life is a full spectrum of various experiences and that wanting to have only pleasant is the tension in itself.
I am not saying that life should always be pleasant. But it also shouldn't be constant misery either! In my last post "unpleasant" was a poor word choice on my part. I should have used the word "frustrating". And yes, life should be less frustrating, especially since it is only my "frustration program" that makes it that way. It is not a matter of anything external to my own inner programming. Constant frustration every single day is not really experiencing the full spectrum of life by any means. It is a program designed to limit experiencing the full spectrum of life!
So what is the message if the tension? Can you find out, what it wants you to know, what wisdom is in the tension?
I can't see any wisdom in the tension.
Ok, you can see, that it can not be controlled. It just is. So do you need to fight it?
Fighting just is. I can't control fighting or no fighting.
I hear you about childhood trauma. I am sorry, it happened.. could the past be different?
No, past can't be different.
Write what comes up, how do you see? Is it time to heal fully?
Yes, I would like to heal fully but apparently I have no control over that either. Have been working on it my whole adult life. And still not healed.

Thank you

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Re: Freedom Now

Postby Ilona » Tue Aug 25, 2020 10:03 am

Thank you for reply.
So you Are saying that me is a location that this body/mind occupies. Is that like a container? Like a file? Like an agreement to name this body “I”? Or is it a concept, a symbol that points to the body and mental processes?
You say you can take a picture of “me”. Please do so. Look at the picture and tell me where in the picture is this “me”? Is it a body? But body is body, it’s not a me. Is it some particular colour? Which colour?
And yes, life should be less frustrating, especially since it is only my "frustration program" that makes it that way. It is not a matter of anything external to my own inner programming. Constant frustration every single day is not really experiencing the full spectrum of life by any means. It is a program designed to limit experiencing the full spectrum of life!
Let’s look at this. Who says, that life should be less frustrating?
And look at this- there is experience of how frustration looks like in full spectrum of intensity. The resistance to what is happening is frustration. So let’s dig deeper, look at the resistance. Is it ok for it to be here? What is it saying? What is not allowed? And do you agree?

Explore and write soon.
Love.

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Re: Freedom Now

Postby MeFree » Tue Aug 25, 2020 4:18 pm

Hi Ilona
So you Are saying that me is a location that this body/mind occupies. Is that like a container? Like a file? Like an agreement to name this body “I”? Or is it a concept, a symbol that points to the body and mental processes?
Yes, the last one. A concept that points to the body and mental processes. But there is more to me than that. Oh, it's so hard to explain! The body/mind are just the perceivable expression of this entity. Yes, there is a belief that I am an entity and the body/mind are just the outward expressions of this me entity.
You say you can take a picture of “me”. Please do so. Look at the picture and tell me where in the picture is this “me”? Is it a body? But body is body, it’s not a me. Is it some particular colour? Which colour?
I can not take a picture of the totality of me. I can only take a picture of my physical manifestation, which we commonly call the body.

And yes, life should be less frustrating, especially since it is only my "frustration program" that makes it that way. It is not a matter of anything external to my own inner programming. Constant frustration every single day is not really experiencing the full spectrum of life by any means. It is a program designed to limit experiencing the full spectrum of life!
Let’s look at this. Who says, that life should be less frustrating?
Me, my mind, my heart, my soul all say this.

And look at this- there is experience of how frustration looks like in full spectrum of intensity. The resistance to what is happening is frustration. So let’s dig deeper, look at the resistance. Is it ok for it to be here? What is it saying? What is not allowed? And do you agree?
Frustration is not the resistance. They are not the same at all. The "frustration program" creates resistance. Then there is the experience of frustration as the reaction to the resistance. No, it is not ok to be here. I am sick of it!

The "frustration program" which I have mentioned a few times here is actually preventing healing from occuring. It is preventing the seeing of the truth. It is keeping me in the prison of the I-me-self. The "frustration program" keeps my life in chains and prevents liberation, freedom, whatever you want to call it. It is hell-bent on frustrating any project that I take on, including this one!

So what purpose does it serve? All I can come up with is that it is trying to keep me safe in some way. As long as I am frustrated then I am safe. Or at least safer than if I am spontaneously flowing with life. Yes, yes, yes, of course all of this is life happening, including the frustration program, but saying that just makes it worse!

As long as this"frustration program" is running, there will be no healing, no freedom, no seeing. This process we are engaged in here will continue to run in circles. The "frustration program" ensures that all of my projects, desires, emotional needs, plans will all continue to be frustrated, there will be no satisfaction or fulfillment. No reaching of goals.

Ok that's it for now.
Thank you.

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Re: Freedom Now

Postby Ilona » Wed Aug 26, 2020 11:34 am

The "frustration program" which I have mentioned a few times here is actually preventing healing from occuring. It is preventing the seeing of the truth. It is keeping me in the prison of the I-me-self. The "frustration program" keeps my life in chains and prevents liberation, freedom, whatever you want to call it. It is hell-bent on frustrating any project that I take on, including this one!
Is it helping?
And does it need to continue to do that?

You have to really focus here on the sensation and allow it to be here. It is safe to feel it. It is safe to feel all kinds of feelings. Including this one. Is that true? Is it ok to feel this for a minute? And just let it be as it is?

Yes, it is about safety. And it is safe here now. Is it not?

The point of this website is to invite you to look for yourself at your experience and find out for yourself, if there is this mythical me or not. Is it real or imagined? How do you know?
You say there is a me entity. I say, look, there isn’t. Nothing there, empty, me is just a word. Not a doer, receiver, experiencer of life.
I say there is being (verb)
Would you consider to take a look for yourself?


Love.

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Re: Freedom Now

Postby MeFree » Wed Aug 26, 2020 11:54 pm

Hi Ilona
The "frustration program" which I have mentioned a few times here is actually preventing healing from occuring. It is preventing the seeing of the truth. It is keeping me in the prison of the I-me-self. The "frustration program" keeps my life in chains and prevents liberation, freedom, whatever you want to call it. It is hell-bent on frustrating any project that I take on, including this one!
Is it helping?
And does it need to continue to do that?
Not really helping me be happy but might be helping in keeping me safe. It is something I learned in the family, from parents. It is out of my control whether it continues or not.
You have to really focus here on the sensation and allow it to be here. It is safe to feel it. It is safe to feel all kinds of feelings. Including this one. Is that true? Is it ok to feel this for a minute? And just let it be as it is?
Yes it is safe to feel for a minute. It is safe to feel it for an hour. The thing is that I feel it all the time! That's what I'm saying. I am constantly in a feeling of frustration! It's not that feeling frustration is the danger. I think you are not understanding what I am saying. I'm saying there is a program running that ensures that I am always frustrated and never reach what I am aiming for. It is this program that is the obstacle. It is not the feeling that that is the obstacle. The feeling is a result of the program. The program ensures that I never reach my goal. The frustration is the result of that program. And in this case the program is ensuring that I don't "see" what it is that you are pointing out to be seen. Maybe I should call it the "don't reach the goal" program or the "must fail" program. I see this program running in every single aspect of my life and it is running here now as I am doing this process with you.
Yes, it is about safety. And it is safe here now. Is it not?
In this very instant yes safe. The next second is unknown. I think I am just too traumatized to really ever feel safe. Yes, safe this moment. But the next moment could be complete disaster. It is unknown. Even though this moment is safe there is fear about the next moment. There is absolutely no reason to believe that because I am safe in this moment in this environment then I will always be safe. Safety is not a constant. I think you don't really understand about trauma and feeling unsafe. It's not like I can just decide to feel safe. Again, it is not in my control.
The point of this website is to invite you to look for yourself at your experience and find out for yourself, if there is this mythical me or not. Is it real or imagined? How do you know?
You say there is a me entity. I say, look, there isn’t. Nothing there, empty, me is just a word. Not a doer, receiver, experiencer of life.
I say there is being (verb)
Would you consider to take a look for yourself?
I am looking. I look and I look and I look! No matter how much I look i am not seeing.

The "frustration/ must fail" program is telling me to just give up. It is telling me that I am one of those people who will just never see it. So I might as well quit now and stop wasting your time. It might be right. The "must fail at reaching the goal" program is telling me to write this to you:

Ilona we have been doing this for many months now. I feel like continuing on would just be a further waste of your time. I think that maybe I will take a break from this and you can put your attention on guiding someone else. I appreciate the time and energy that you put into being my LU guide. If some breakthrough occurs I will let you know. If I decide to try this again some time in the future I will let you know. Just no point in going in circles over and over. If you feel that you want to continue with me, let me know and we can continue but I don't want to waste your time. I have enjoyed working with you. Thank you very much for all of your efforts working with me. I wish you all the best!

Thank you!

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Re: Freedom Now

Postby Ilona » Thu Aug 27, 2020 6:35 am

Dear friend. You are not wasting my time. It takes as long as it takes and it’s unique to you.
I hear you very well and I know what you are talking about. Frustration is here always, I get that. I want you to see for yourself, that’s when you look here now, in the moment, it is always safe. And to check that please spend a few days checking often, are you safe right now? Are you feeling safe right now? Write these questions down so you see them often and remember to check.

Feeling unsafe comes with thoughts about future, but here now, without any thoughts about future, there is what is. The reality. The actuality. That, which is. So work with this and notice a hundred times, that here now it is safe.

It’s also interesting that frustration program is here to ensure that you do not reach your goals. What is a goal of this conversation for you? What is the desired outcome? Write it down. What else?

Love.

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Re: Freedom Now

Postby MeFree » Wed Sep 02, 2020 5:55 pm

Hi Ilona
Dear friend. You are not wasting my time. It takes as long as it takes and it’s unique to you.
Thank you for the reassurance. Let's continue on.
I think that a strong piece of resistance was driving the bus the last time I wrote to you.
I hear you very well and I know what you are talking about. Frustration is here always, I get that.
Thank you for the acknowledgement. I appreciate it.
I want you to see for yourself, that’s when you look here now, in the moment, it is always safe. And to check that please spend a few days checking often, are you safe right now? Are you feeling safe right now? Write these questions down so you see them often and remember to check.
This is a good idea. I know you mentioned this before. Have been doing this. I am finding myself to be safe most of the time. There are some situations that trigger intense fear, regardless of my thoughts.
Feeling unsafe comes with thoughts about future, but here now, without any thoughts about future, there is what is. The reality. The actuality. That, which is. So work with this and notice a hundred times, that here now it is safe.
Fear is not always about the future. There is re-living past traumas as though they are happening now. Something in the environment triggers these panic attacks/terror states. Yes I am safe in the current moment but I never know when I will get triggered into a ptsd flashback. All of this occurs way deeper in the body than just thoughts. But yes, I see your point. It is also true that there is a fear of getting triggered in the future.

So yes in a way I agree with you. No future = no fear (with the caveat of the trauma flashback). In any case I find it is impossible to live with absolutely no thoughts of the future and no triggers from the past, so this is a very hypothetical situation you are suggesting.
It’s also interesting that frustration program is here to ensure that you do not reach your goals.
Yes. It is an old family program. It is about being safe and also about being loved. I know it's a bit crazy! But somehow being frustrated and not reaching goals was a way to feel safe and "loved" within my family. Well not really loved, but at least accepted.

There is still some childhood fear that if I let go of this program then my safety/love will disappear. It's like that old story about whistling to keep the tigers away. Do you know that story?
What is a goal of this conversation for you? What is the desired outcome? Write it down. What else?
The goal of this conversation with you is to be free of the belief in a separate self. Liberated from that illusion. Not just for a brief moment of seeing, but as an ongoing reality.

My desired outcomes: Able to live life free of suffering and self imposed limitation. To be done with the "frustration program". To be done with the "bail/fail" program. To move freely through life without the unnecessary burden of the story of "me" and "my life". Free of identifying with the character of "me".

Ideally I would like to be done with the ptsd triggers as well, but at this point I don't really expect that to happen in this lifetime. And I know that is not what we are doing here in any case.

-+-+-+

A few days ago there was a clear seeing that I am not the character that I always assumed myself to be. So clear! I totally got what you are saying when you talk about Batman. It was very spontaneous and very clear. I have been playing a character my whole life without even knowing it! The rest of the evening was free and laughter. The next day I was once again being the character but it really didn't fit, like wearing some weird hand-made suit, arms in the legs, legs in the arms. Now it had settled down but once again definitely identified with the character once again.

Today while writing answers to your questions about fear I realized that I am actually very attached to being fearful and frustrated. Like that's me, that's who I am. Very identified with these painful patterns. It's like if I woke up tomorrow and all the fear and frustration was gone I would no longer be "me", I'd be somebody else! Yes, of course life would continue, being would continue, existence would continue, but there would no longer be this particular "me", I would be somebody else. (Yes, this is different than no "me" at all, but this is how it's coming up). And for some unknown reason I am very attached/identified with this "me" character and in fact am feeling a lot of love for him right now.

Ok this is where things stand right now. Saw through the fictional character but still an "I" here who saw it. Still a sense of volitional choices rather than "just happening". Some clarity and some confusion, both. Inner conflict about wanting to be free of the illusion and at the same time some drive to maintain the illusion.

Thank you!

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Re: Freedom Now

Postby MeFree » Wed Sep 02, 2020 5:55 pm

Hi Ilona
Dear friend. You are not wasting my time. It takes as long as it takes and it’s unique to you.
Thank you for the reassurance. Let's continue on.
I think that a strong piece of resistance was driving the bus the last time I wrote to you.
I hear you very well and I know what you are talking about. Frustration is here always, I get that.
Thank you for the acknowledgement. I appreciate it.
I want you to see for yourself, that’s when you look here now, in the moment, it is always safe. And to check that please spend a few days checking often, are you safe right now? Are you feeling safe right now? Write these questions down so you see them often and remember to check.
This is a good idea. I know you mentioned this before. Have been doing this. I am finding myself to be safe most of the time. There are some situations that trigger intense fear, regardless of my thoughts.
Feeling unsafe comes with thoughts about future, but here now, without any thoughts about future, there is what is. The reality. The actuality. That, which is. So work with this and notice a hundred times, that here now it is safe.
Fear is not always about the future. There is re-living past traumas as though they are happening now. Something in the environment triggers these panic attacks/terror states. Yes I am safe in the current moment but I never know when I will get triggered into a ptsd flashback. All of this occurs way deeper in the body than just thoughts. But yes, I see your point. It is also true that there is a fear of getting triggered in the future.

So yes in a way I agree with you. No future = no fear (with the caveat of the trauma flashback). In any case I find it is impossible to live with absolutely no thoughts of the future and no triggers from the past, so this is a very hypothetical situation you are suggesting.
It’s also interesting that frustration program is here to ensure that you do not reach your goals.
Yes. It is an old family program. It is about being safe and also about being loved. I know it's a bit crazy! But somehow being frustrated and not reaching goals was a way to feel safe and "loved" within my family. Well not really loved, but at least accepted.

There is still some childhood fear that if I let go of this program then my safety/love will disappear. It's like that old story about whistling to keep the tigers away. Do you know that story?
What is a goal of this conversation for you? What is the desired outcome? Write it down. What else?
The goal of this conversation with you is to be free of the belief in a separate self. Liberated from that illusion. Not just for a brief moment of seeing, but as an ongoing reality.

My desired outcomes: Able to live life free of suffering and self imposed limitation. To be done with the "frustration program". To be done with the "bail/fail" program. To move freely through life without the unnecessary burden of the story of "me" and "my life". Free of identifying with the character of "me".

Ideally I would like to be done with the ptsd triggers as well, but at this point I don't really expect that to happen in this lifetime. And I know that is not what we are doing here in any case.

-+-+-+

A few days ago there was a clear seeing that I am not the character that I always assumed myself to be. So clear! I totally got what you are saying when you talk about Batman. It was very spontaneous and very clear. I have been playing a character my whole life without even knowing it! The rest of the evening was free and laughter. The next day I was once again being the character but it really didn't fit, like wearing some weird hand-made suit, arms in the legs, legs in the arms. Now it had settled down but once again definitely identified with the character once again.

Today while writing answers to your questions about fear I realized that I am actually very attached to being fearful and frustrated. Like that's me, that's who I am. Very identified with these painful patterns. It's like if I woke up tomorrow and all the fear and frustration was gone I would no longer be "me", I'd be somebody else! Yes, of course life would continue, being would continue, existence would continue, but there would no longer be this particular "me", I would be somebody else. (Yes, this is different than no "me" at all, but this is how it's coming up). And for some unknown reason I am very attached/identified with this "me" character and in fact am feeling a lot of love for him right now.

Ok this is where things stand right now. Saw through the fictional character but still an "I" here who saw it. Still a sense of volitional choices rather than "just happening". Some clarity and some confusion, both. Inner conflict about wanting to be free of the illusion and at the same time some drive to maintain the illusion.

Thank you!

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Ilona
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Re: Freedom Now

Postby Ilona » Sat Sep 05, 2020 6:45 pm

Thank you for opening! The second part of your message speaks of you seeing that you are not a character. That’s great opening. The roles are parlaying out, all kinds of stuff and seeing that it’s not what you are is indeed freeing.
. In any case I find it is impossible to live with absolutely no thoughts of the future and no triggers from the past, so this is a very hypothetical situation you are suggesting.
It’s not hypothetical at all. I agree it’s impossible to live without no thoughts about past or future, we have memory and we use it, we make plans and we meet the goals. What I’m saying is that all this is happening by itself. Now the trigger thing says that there is something Unresolved. Then once the pattern resolves and plays out, it no longer shows up with the trigger. (The memory is there, “ it happened” but it’s neutral, no charge. and the deeper question is what is that reacts? What is that judges? What is that has an opinion?

Is there an entity or is it a happening?
Is volition of choice something you do or is it happening? The sense of choosing happens and thoughts “say I chose”. Either blue or red, still the narrative is “I chose this”. So a question is: is there a choose in choosing? Like is there a breather in breathing? Sitter in sitting? Experiencer in experiencing?

I made a new video with you in mind and it is coming out tomorrow. Look it up.

Love.

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MeFree
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Re: Freedom Now

Postby MeFree » Sat Sep 05, 2020 10:57 pm

Hi Ilona
What I’m saying is that all this is happening by itself. Now the trigger thing says that there is something Unresolved. Then once the pattern resolves and plays out, it no longer shows up with the trigger. (The memory is there, “ it happened” but it’s neutral, no charge.
Yes, agreed, unresolved material. Definitely.
and the deeper question is what is that reacts?
Body reacts. Mind reacts.
What is that judges? What is that has an opinion?
Mind judges. Mind has opinions
Is there an entity or is it a happening?
Neither entity nor just happening. Creation of the mind. Mind needs to create a "self". Unknown why. Mind is confused between reality and its own creations. Confusion between concepts and actuality.
Is volition of choice something you do or is it happening?
Volitional choice happens and there is the mind saying "I did it".
The sense of choosing happens and thoughts “say I chose”. Either blue or red, still the narrative is “I chose this”. So a question is: is there a choose in choosing?
Unknown at this time. It does *seem* like there is a choice in the choosing. There is the activity of the mind mulling over possible options prior to things changing.

Example: choosing what to eat for lunch. Mind ponders/imagines what to eat from menu list. Then actions are taken to make one of those options a reality. I don't know how the choice is actually made, but it does *seem* like a mental process is being carried out on the conscious awareness level.

(Yes, I know that when something *seems* to be going on, it is often not really what is going on)
Like is there a breather in breathing?
Mind can create breather but it is not necessary for breathing. Voluntary breath control creates the sense of a "breather".
Sitter in sitting?
Again, sitter is unnecessary for sitting, yet mind creates a "sitter".
Experiencer in experiencing?
Same again. No experiencer is necessary, yet mind creates an experiencer.

I made a new video with you in mind and it is coming out tomorrow. Look it up.
Will definitely look for it!

-+-+-+-+
Am doing Zoom contemplation retreat this weekend. Woke up in the night and there was no longer any "owner" of the body. There was no "my* body, it was just "body" with absolutely no "owner" whatsoever. Same upon waking this morning. But rapidly the sense of "my" returned. The mind didn't know what to make of the experience. On one hand "cool, yeah, freedom, great!" On the other hand disorienting to some part of the mind, which seems to believe that there must be an owner of experience.

So some openings are happening, which is very nice but there is some mind structure that keeps insisting that there must be an experiencer, so it then creates one!

Well this is the current situation.
Thank you!

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Ilona
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Re: Freedom Now

Postby Ilona » Sun Sep 06, 2020 7:16 am

Thank you for sharing! Good stuff. You say:
Neither entity nor just happening. Creation of the mind. Mind needs to create a "self". Unknown why. Mind is confused between reality and its own creations. Confusion between concepts and actuality.
Let’s get it unconfused. Actuality, reality is that which is happening here now and is undeniably here. It’s the present experience. It’s that which is underneath all thoughts and concepts. It’s the current happening : colours, sounds, sensations feelings etc, that are here, you want it or not.

Concepts is description. Agreements on names and ideas.
I invite you to watch this video and explore with me what is the difference between real and conceptual.

https://youtu.be/EPJpawRlmh4

Basically, words = concepts. The experience that is happening and description of it is not the same. Word sweet and experience of sweetness when you put chocolate in your mouth are not the same. Can you see?

Ideas, images, concepts are added on upon actuality. What is here is with and without concepts. Can you see?

Write what you notice,
Love


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