Freedom Now

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Ilona
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Re: Freedom Now

Postby Ilona » Mon Apr 20, 2020 6:04 am

Yes, I understand what you are asking.
How to look?
Ok, you can tell me what is behind your back now in two ways. First you can remember and think about then say. Second, you turn around and look and describe. Simple as that. You look and describe. Not think, but take an actual look.
This video may help too
https://youtu.be/ab4XA685rxc
A difference between looking for and looking at.
The key is to look at what is and describe.

Like right here right now, is there a separate self?
Look at it.
Describe what is there.

Hope this helps.
Please read the whole thread.

Love.

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Re: Freedom Now

Postby MeFree » Mon Apr 27, 2020 9:52 pm

Hi Ilona

Have been re-reading the thread. We do seem to go in circles a lot. Going over the same pointers again and again. You tell me how reality is then say "look". I look but all i see is the same old stuff I always see. And I AM looking! I understand the difference between thinking and looking but I'm not seeing anything like you describe!

I expect that if the experience of no-self were actually present that nothing would be taken personally, no insult, no pain, no thought would be taken personally because there would be no "person" here to take it that way. Does this match up with your experience?

When I do the Deep Looking exercise of asking heart, mind, body what they want, they all say that they want to feel safe and loved. Self or no self, this is what is most wanted, yet seems completely unattainable. No matter what I do or don't do, this experience is nowhere to be found. I imagine that some people feel safe and loved as a background to their daily life experience. For me it this is far from my daily life.

As far as feeling loved, this is just not part of my life in any real way. Others tell me that they love me but I feel nothing. Just feel like my heart is dead. Feeling loved is a million miles away.

Have had the experience of feeling deeply safe and loved once, at an intensive contemplation retreat so I do know what that is like but here and now it is nowhere to be found. Am living with continuous feelings of being unsafe and unloved.

I have also been doing the "am I safe now?" exercise that you suggested. It's not going so well now due to this coronavirus situation. My senses show me that I am safe in the here and now but there is still the invisible danger ongoing. For all I know I could be infected and asymptomatic. Also being physically close to anyone is now considered dangerous as well... My life in the world is on hold, all plans cancelled, stuck at home indefinitely.

Well ok I will keep working my way through our previous communications. Am not seeing anything new regarding self vs no-self. Will let you know if anything new comes up. Am sad that this process has not been more illuminating for me. Thanks for your time. Take care.

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Re: Freedom Now

Postby Ilona » Tue Apr 28, 2020 5:48 am

Thank you very much for taking time and going through all the pointers.
Here is something to consider:
I expect that if the experience of no-self were actually present that nothing would be taken personally, no insult, no pain, no thought would be taken personally because there would be no "person" here to take it that way. Does this match up with your experience?
This is a big fat expectation, that is in the way of seeing clearly! This is what you are looking for and can not see what is as it is. And it’s not how it is!

Firstly, no self is not an experience. It’s seeing that everything is happening by itself, without you doing that.

You expect that when there is no person, no insult is taken personally. But person is a concept. Insult hurts not because of person being there, but because there is a wound inside that is touched by words. That wound is not a person. Person is an added on narrative.

No pain? Not the case. Pain is inevitable. Pain is part of life. And you are not a robot. Pain happens. It hurts not because there is a person, but because there is an injury. If you hope that no sensations of pain would arise, that is just a wishful thinking. Including psychological pain. The hurts and trauma are going to continue to hurt until they are resolved. And that does not disappear with seeing that everything is happening by itself. No self= no doer that makes life happening.

No thought would be taken personally- that’s another unrealistic expectation.

So reading this, do you still hope that seeing no self will fix this? Can you let go of these expectations? As long as you are thinking that this that is has to be somehow fixed, you are not looking. You are hoping to get benefits. You are looking for a way out of life situation. That’s not it.

To continue, you will need to leave ALL expectations aside. Are you ready to give up all your hopes that this process will give you desired outcome?

Love

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Re: Freedom Now

Postby MeFree » Fri May 01, 2020 6:25 am

Hi Ilona
Are you ready to give up all your hopes that this process will give you desired outcome?
If there is no hope of achieving any desired outcome, then what is the point? Why even bother with this? If nothing changes then where is the liberation in that?

Thank you

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Re: Freedom Now

Postby Ilona » Fri May 01, 2020 6:42 am

Very good questions! Yes, what’s the point?
Living life freely. End of trying to achieve something in the future. Enjoying life now. No more seeking the golden carrot of awakening/ liberation. Being present to what is happening.

The point of life is to live it fully.

Yes, and why bother?

Resolving seeking is liberation.
Only are you ready to give it up?

With love.

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Re: Freedom Now

Postby MeFree » Tue May 05, 2020 5:01 pm

Hi Ilona
Hope you are doing well
Resolving seeking is liberation.
Only are you ready to give it up?
I keep saying I am ready but it's not happening for me so maybe I'm not really ready. How can I get myself to be more ready?

I would love to resolve the seeking. Prefer to end seeking by actually finding rather than giving up in despair. Is this possible for me?

One thing that I have noticed lately is how much resistance I have all the time. It's a major factor in my ongoing life. It is automatic default mode resistance to whatever is happening both external and internal. Resistance is a huge part of my personality and conditioning. I see that I have a lot of resistance to anyone trying to help me, even with the people that I go to for help. I can see how much I resist this process and the pointers you give. I do not want to live my life this way but it seems to be the way things are for me.

I imagine that your next question will be "what do you get out of being resistant?". For that I have no answer....

That's it for today
Thank you

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Ilona
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Re: Freedom Now

Postby Ilona » Tue May 05, 2020 7:45 pm

Thank you for honesty. This is important.
Let’s do something different.
Let’s agree with reaistance. Yes, it sucks. I agree.
And it sucks to resist all the time.
And it’s a default mode. Let’s agree win all that.

It’s ok to feel resistance too. Inner fight is on. Let’s honour that.

It is safe to feel resistance. It’s what is happening.

Can you allow resistance to be here? Consciously I mean.
It’s part of life. It’s here to say that something is NOT OK. Let’s hear it. It is not ok.

Explore this.

Love.

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Re: Freedom Now

Postby MeFree » Tue May 26, 2020 3:11 pm

Hi Ilona
Can you allow resistance to be here? Consciously I mean.
Am allowing the resistance to be here.

What is seen is that there is a continuous attitude that "I am not having the experience that I want to be having!!" This is running in the background all the time. I'm not saying that anything "should" be different, but I am saying that I *want* the experience to be the way that I want it to be. And it's not.

So now I imagine you saying "ok, what if you allow all this to be as it is? What if you don't resist wanting the experience to be better?"

Ugh, so much sadness!

Allow the sadness....

In a way it feels like I am never fully IN the experience that is actually occuring. There is some part of me that is removed or dissociated from whatever is happening. All the time. It's not so much that I am separate as much as I am dissociated from my own experience of life.

Dissociated and constantly wanting the current experience to be different/ better, no matter what is happening. Wanting thoughts to be different, feelings, self, others, perceptions, even states of consciousness! If I'm not in Universal Love Consciousness then there is something wrong! Yes, I know, that's a big expectation! But that's the way it is for me, in any case.

Ok that's it. I haven't written to you in a while but I'm still working on it! Wanted to let you know that I haven't given up yet!
Thank you!

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Re: Freedom Now

Postby Ilona » Thu May 28, 2020 6:18 am

Thank you for sharing how you feel. I hear you and I agree, it’s not a fun way to live.
In a way it feels like I am never fully IN the experience that is actually occuring. There is some part of me that is removed or dissociated from whatever is happening. All the time. It's not so much that I am separate as much as I am dissociated from my own experience of life.
How about the experience of feeling removed or dissociated. That is the experience that is happening, right? You feel how it is to live life from a place of dissociation. Are you removed from that?

Let’s take a closer look here. Who or what is that sees this dissociation?
Can you agree, that the image, that mind creates is not you?
Take a look, are you seeing that image in your mind or is that image seeing you?

What is here, besides images in the mind?


Explore this and write sooner. I’m here to give you small steps.
Love.

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Re: Freedom Now

Postby MeFree » Fri May 29, 2020 11:32 pm

Hi Ilona
Thanks for writing!
How about the experience of feeling removed or dissociated. That is the experience that is happening, right?
Yes, that experience is definitely happening.
You feel how it is to live life from a place of dissociation. Are you removed from that?
Ha! That's a funny way to look at it! Yes, I am fully IN the experience of being removed from the experience! The awareness of being removed is itself very present, even as I am not feeling present with everything else. I am fully here in the experience of not fully being here! Funny!
Let’s take a closer look here. Who or what is that sees this dissociation?
Normally I would just reply "I see it" but right now it's more like the mind sees it. Or maybe the awareness sees it. There is a knowing of the experience but can't really find a who or a what that is the one who knows. It is just known as if by magic!

Can you agree, that the image, that mind creates is not you?
Yes I can agree that the mind created image is not me.
Take a look, are you seeing that image in your mind or is that image seeing you?
I am seeing the image.
What is here, besides images in the mind?
Perceptions, sensations, emotions are here. All the rest are images.

Oh it's so close! I can almost see it...or rather I'm so close to seeing that there is nothing to see!

It's very subtle....And still the mind is strongly holding onto the image of me as "real"... This mind has a very tight grip on its image of "me"! Such a strong mind!

Thats it for now
Thank you!

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Re: Freedom Now

Postby Ilona » Sat May 30, 2020 5:50 am

Great, let’s take another small step and look closer at those mind images, really seeing how they get created. Here is a video
https://youtu.be/_w0wnR72604 Examine in your own experience, where is the person and what is here besides it.

Write your observations and we’ll take one more step.

Love.

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Re: Freedom Now

Postby MeFree » Mon Jun 01, 2020 4:38 pm

Hi Ilona
Great, let’s take another small step and look closer at those mind images, really seeing how they get created. Here is a video
https://youtu.be/_w0wnR72604 Examine in your own experience, where is the person and what is here besides it.

Write your observations and we’ll take one more step.
Watched the movie about mind movies. I understand that the mental images that I watch are not actually me. There is me and then there is the mental character of me. I do believe that the mental images do represent me. The mental character is probably fictionalized to some degree, like an actor portraying a real person in a docudrama - based on a true story.

When I really stop and pay attention I can see that the mental character isn't a very accurate representation. But I need to consciously focus my attention on it. When I just go through the day without consciously focusing on it, then I get sucked into believing the mental movies to be real. I guess it's one of those things I need to do over and over again to really make it stick.

Thank you!

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Re: Freedom Now

Postby Ilona » Tue Jun 02, 2020 6:54 am

Thank you for answer
Watched the movie about mind movies. I understand that the mental images that I watch are not actually me. There is me and then there is the mental character of me. I do believe that the mental images do represent me. The mental character is probably fictionalized to some degree, like an actor portraying a real person in a docudrama - based on a true story.
The first me and the second me are still on the mind screen. Examine this closer. When thought me comes up, what is it referring to in actuality? An image or a being?

Once you realise that the character you thought you are is fiction, you don’t need to remind yourself about that. Same way like when a kid realises that Santa is not real, he can not unrealise that. It not that every time he sees a man in red clothes he reminds himself that it’s not real Santa that lives up north.

Write more about the character, what is it made of, how does it show up, what is your relationship with him etc. Explore till you know.

Love.

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Re: Freedom Now

Postby MeFree » Mon Jun 08, 2020 8:22 pm

Hi Ilona
When thought me comes up, what is it referring to in actuality? An image or a being?
The thought me sometimes refers to the image of me. Other times the thought me refers to the being.

If the thought says "I am ugly" it is referring to the image which is seen as ugly. If the thought says "I am feeling pain" then the thought refers to the being who is feeling the pain. The image does not feel the pain, the being feels the pain.

Previously you said:
It’s like walking in a desert and seeing a mirage, some water in the distance. Then you go there and see it’s an illusion. And you keep walking and again see water in the distance. Again you run there and you see it’s a mirage. And so this continues, until you get it, you don’t need to run to check, you know it’s a mirage. The illusion does not stop. The knowing that it’s illusion dawns. You no longer get fooled by appearance.
Now you say:
Once you realise that the character you thought you are is fiction, you don’t need to remind yourself about that. Same way like when a kid realises that Santa is not real, he can not unrealise that. It not that every time he sees a man in red clothes he reminds himself that it’s not real Santa that lives up north.
So is it something I need to see over and over or is it something I need to see just once?

As I look into the character of "me" I am finding more and more self hatred. Is this supposed to happen?

This whole coronavirus lockdown thing has really disrupted my life in a massive way. All of my plans for 2020 have been cancelled. I am stuck in a house with people I don't like in a place I don't want to be. And now I am completely suffocating in my own self hatred.

Ok that's it. I see that the mental character image isn't me. But I am still here as the one who is seeing that. I don't get that both "mes" are in the mind. That sounds just like saying that the whole entire universe is in my mind. And if the me is all in the mind, then the next question is: What is the mind?

Thank you.

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Re: Freedom Now

Postby Ilona » Tue Jun 09, 2020 8:30 am

I hear you, it’s not a fun situation. It’s like being in a cosmic washing machine, where the intensity is turned up to the limit and everything has that sense of desperation. But, you can look at it as at a positive thing. This washing is here to clear all that is no longer serving. So things like self hate can be seen and inquired. What problem does self hate fix? Is it useful? Is it helping? Is it necessary? Who did you learn that from? When was the first time you felt self hatred? What was the situation? Describe.
Other times the thought me refers to the being.
Right, that’s the illusion we are looking at. A being. There is no actual entity as a separate from the whole being. If you take word being and see it as a verb. It is here, always, being, knowing, aware space in which all the content shows up and is experienced.

Can you feel that sense of being?
Is that a being doing being?
What do you do in order to be?
What do you need to do in order to be?
Or being is on by default, unstoppable and without a pause?

Love.


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