SamK

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Sam47
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Re: SamK

Postby Sam47 » Wed Feb 26, 2020 1:24 pm

In answer to your question. The fear of death would be helpful.
The first time I've read your post, I didn't really check what you've meant with this. A thought came up: „Great, Sam had the insight that fear of death would be helpful“... Haha :) And yes, fear of death is really helpful, it helps the body to survive, it is just a surviving tool. Otherwise, why jump away from the nearing car? Or maybe one day the coffee tastes horrible, the meal is cold – ok I'll jump out of the window... ;))

The second time reading I got it...
Ok, let's have a look at this.
What is this fear of death made of? Where and how in the body is the sensation called fear, and what of this fear of death is just a story told by thoughts? Dive deep and try to feel the sensations...
I get that my true self - awareness cannot die, but it feels more intellectual at this stage.
What is the true self? Is there a false self and a true self? Can this „true“ self be found in direct experience or is this just hearsay? What if there is neither a true nor a false self? What if there is always just THIS, just whats going on from moment to moment and the perceiving of it? No hidden truth which you haven't found yet?


The thought of eating the banana was not incongruous to the experience. They did correlate on some levels. I could see the banana in my mind. I knew what it would look like when I peeled and I had an understanding of what it would taste like. All conjured from thought about an upcoming experience. I also experienced the predicted sweetness of the banana.
Does the word „sweet“ carry some sweetness? Or is it just a description of something you have experienced sometime? If you never had experienced sweetness could you then do something with this word?
Imagine you would like to try to describe someone who never saw or ate a banana the banana experience... Would this be possible?


The point with these exercises is to see how much the thought content has to do with the reality of experience and subsequently if „I“ or „self“ is more than just thought... :)
Interesting exercise.
Do this exercise more often in your everyday life before you eat or drink, before you take a shower or whatever. Imagine it first and then compare the current experience with the description. See if words and mental images can actually describe reality or if they are just a kind of sketch ...:)

Before I answer in full can I add another question please

How can we draw from previous experience and observe a correlation between the imagined and the predicted event? Who is the l drawing from experience? The imagined banana preceding the direct experience of eating the banana?


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barb
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Re: SamK

Postby barb » Wed Feb 26, 2020 1:40 pm

Has there to be an "I" for memories? Only through memories imagination is possible. Can you imagine something that was never experienced? Has there to be an entity, an "I" which has memories, or are there just memories?
Looking —> Seeing....Seeing —> Freedom

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Sam47
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Re: SamK

Postby Sam47 » Fri Feb 28, 2020 8:12 pm

In answer to your question. The fear of death would be helpful.
The first time I've read your post, I didn't really check what you've meant with this. A thought came up: „Great, Sam had the insight that fear of death would be helpful“... Haha :) And yes, fear of death is really helpful, it helps the body to survive, it is just a surviving tool. Otherwise, why jump away from the nearing car? Or maybe one day the coffee tastes horrible, the meal is cold – ok I'll jump out of the window... ;))

The second time reading I got it...
Ok, let's have a look at this.
What is this fear of death made of? Where and how in the body is the sensation called fear, and what of this fear of death is just a story told by thoughts? Dive deep and try to feel the sensations...
I get that my true self - awareness cannot die, but it feels more intellectual at this stage.
What is the true self? Is there a false self and a true self? Can this „true“ self be found in direct experience or is this just hearsay? What if there is neither a true nor a false self? What if there is always just THIS, just whats going on from moment to moment and the perceiving of it? No hidden truth which you haven't found yet?


The thought of eating the banana was not incongruous to the experience. They did correlate on some levels. I could see the banana in my mind. I knew what it would look like when I peeled and I had an understanding of what it would taste like. All conjured from thought about an upcoming experience. I also experienced the predicted sweetness of the banana.
Does the word „sweet“ carry some sweetness? Or is it just a description of something you have experienced sometime? If you never had experienced sweetness could you then do something with this word?
Imagine you would like to try to describe someone who never saw or ate a banana the banana experience... Would this be possible?


The point with these exercises is to see how much the thought content has to do with the reality of experience and subsequently if „I“ or „self“ is more than just thought... :)
Interesting exercise.
Do this exercise more often in your everyday life before you eat or drink, before you take a shower or whatever. Imagine it first and then compare the current experience with the description. See if words and mental images can actually describe reality or if they are just a kind of sketch ...:)

Before I answer in full can I add another question please

How can we draw from previous experience and observe a correlation between the imagined and the predicted event? Who is the l drawing from experience? The imagined banana preceding the direct experience of eating the banana?


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I cant find what the fear of death is made of when I put it under the spotlight. With extra scrutiny...maybe it is just a story. It doesn’t have an independent nature.

I can see the true self does not exist. How can it?! This would imply 2. It is just turning enlightenment into an object seeking exercise.
A false self and a true self. Neither can exist.
If there is no self then there is just THIS.
What a relief. Image
A memory is just a sensation/thought. The word sweetness doesn’t carry any sweetness. It is just a label.
If I imagine a banana this is also direct experience though. It has been allowed by consciousness. Although different from the gross experience of a shower.

Love
Sam



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barb
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Re: SamK

Postby barb » Sat Feb 29, 2020 12:39 pm

I cant find what the fear of death is made of when I put it under the spotlight. With extra scrutiny...maybe it is just a story.
It would be a good idea if you observe emotions during your day, and try to find out what they are made of. Not out of memories, only if they are actually present. No matter which label the emotion has try to find out something about them.

Look for yourself: If there is an emotion recognized (fear, sadness, anger, joy... whatever) what is it made of? Is there a bodily sensation + the label of thought? Is there sometimes first a thought and then a sensation in the body and then the other way around? Is there sometimes just a thought which claims to be an emotion (thought in disguise...;))? Do different emotions sometimes feel the same in the body? For example, you can also specifically look for tensions in the body and find out which emotion-label could cause this sensation... Do this everytime when it comes to mind, be curious like a child... :)
I can see the true self does not exist. How can it?! This would imply 2. It is just turning enlightenment into an object seeking exercise.
A false self and a true self. Neither can exist.
If there is no self then there is just THIS.
What a relief. 
Yes, what a relief... :) So beautiful...<3
It has been allowed by consciousness.
I don't really get how you mean this. Can you explain a little bit?

Love
Looking —> Seeing....Seeing —> Freedom

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Sam47
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Re: SamK

Postby Sam47 » Mon Mar 09, 2020 11:13 pm

I cant find what the fear of death is made of when I put it under the spotlight. With extra scrutiny...maybe it is just a story.
It would be a good idea if you observe emotions during your day, and try to find out what they are made of. Not out of memories, only if they are actually present. No matter which label the emotion has try to find out something about them.

Look for yourself: If there is an emotion recognized (fear, sadness, anger, joy... whatever) what is it made of? Is there a bodily sensation + the label of thought? Is there sometimes first a thought and then a sensation in the body and then the other way around? Is there sometimes just a thought which claims to be an emotion (thought in disguise...;))? Do different emotions sometimes feel the same in the body? For example, you can also specifically look for tensions in the body and find out which emotion-label could cause this sensation... Do this everytime when it comes to mind, be curious like a child... :)
I can see the true self does not exist. How can it?! This would imply 2. It is just turning enlightenment into an object seeking exercise.
A false self and a true self. Neither can exist.
If there is no self then there is just THIS.
What a relief. 
Yes, what a relief... :) So beautiful...<3
It has been allowed by consciousness.
I don't really get how you mean this. Can you explain a little bit?

Love
Sensations can be labelled in many ways by the mind. Essentially the bodily experiences are often similar. I like the idea of investigating what labels pop up in different contexts. The curiosity takes away the expectation to try and capture positive feelings.

Emotions just seem to be made of body feelings. Faster heart rate and tightness in anxiety. Openness and expansive flowing feelings in the body with love.

Thought in disguise. Is it all mental activity. Some mental activities look more important than others. Is all thought neutral?

If I think there is a self that I need to dissolve then I’m creating a duality. No thing can remove no thing. No thing can be the source of enlightenment. Awareness just is. It needs no thing. The notion of self is just another thought. Thoughts cannot create thoughts. I think!!! Image

Love sam


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barb
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Re: SamK

Postby barb » Tue Mar 10, 2020 1:32 pm

Sensations can be labelled in many ways by the mind. Essentially the bodily experiences are often similar. I like the idea of investigating what labels pop up in different contexts. The curiosity takes away the expectation to try and capture positive feelings.
Great :)
Thought in disguise. Is it all mental activity. Some mental activities look more important than others. Is all thought neutral?
What does „neutral“ mean? Is this not also a judgment by thought? Positive, negative, neutral... Can a word describe experience? Are judgments not based on conditioning? What today has the label positive could have been seen as very negative 100 or 50 years before... Are not all thoughts just mind movies?
Emotions just seem to be made of body feelings. Faster heart rate and tightness in anxiety. Openness and expansive flowing feelings in the body with love.
Let's have a gentle and friendly look at the body experience:

Sit or lie down for about 15 minutes with eyes closed.
Pay attention only to the pure sensations without relying on thoughts or mental images.

Can you tell how big the body is?
Does the body have a weight or circumference?

Does the body have a shape or form in the current experience?
Is there a border between the body and the clothes?
Is there a border between the body and the surface?

Just with feeling: do you know how many toes there are, does the feeling know anything about toes, or is it just a sensation?

Does the body have a name?

Is there an inside or outside? If there is an inside - inside of what?
If there is an outside, the outside of what exactly?


Does the body perceive or is the body perceived?
Does awareness live in a particular location?
Is there something missing when the body is experienced in this way?

If I think there is a self that I need to dissolve then I’m creating a duality. No thing can remove no thing. No thing can be the source of enlightenment. Awareness just is. It needs no thing. The notion of self is just another thought. Thoughts cannot create thoughts. I think!!!
Thinking can't get anything, Thinking is also perceived, isn't it? How would it then be possible that thinking can explain perceiving? Thinking cannot go beyond itself... Therefore: Not thinking – LOOKING :))

Much love, Barb :)
Looking —> Seeing....Seeing —> Freedom

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Sam47
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Re: SamK

Postby Sam47 » Thu Apr 02, 2020 9:35 pm

I’ve booked an hr on this tomorrow. Back on track.

Apologies Barb. It’s been an interesting time getting into a massively new routine.

Thanks again. This is very helpful and powerful pointer.

Cheers Sam.


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barb
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Re: SamK

Postby barb » Tue Apr 07, 2020 9:19 am

Hi Sam!

Nice to hear from you, hope you are fine... :)

Much love
Looking —> Seeing....Seeing —> Freedom

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Sam47
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Re: SamK

Postby Sam47 » Fri Apr 10, 2020 2:00 pm

Sensations can be labelled in many ways by the mind. Essentially the bodily experiences are often similar. I like the idea of investigating what labels pop up in different contexts. The curiosity takes away the expectation to try and capture positive feelings.
Great :)
Thought in disguise. Is it all mental activity. Some mental activities look more important than others. Is all thought neutral?
What does „neutral“ mean? Is this not also a judgment by thought? Positive, negative, neutral... Can a word describe experience? Are judgments not based on conditioning? What today has the label positive could have been seen as very negative 100 or 50 years before... Are not all thoughts just mind movies?
Emotions just seem to be made of body feelings. Faster heart rate and tightness in anxiety. Openness and expansive flowing feelings in the body with love.
Let's have a gentle and friendly look at the body experience:

Sit or lie down for about 15 minutes with eyes closed.
Pay attention only to the pure sensations without relying on thoughts or mental images.

Can you tell how big the body is?
Does the body have a weight or circumference?

Does the body have a shape or form in the current experience?
Is there a border between the body and the clothes?
Is there a border between the body and the surface?

Just with feeling: do you know how many toes there are, does the feeling know anything about toes, or is it just a sensation?

Does the body have a name?

Is there an inside or outside? If there is an inside - inside of what?
If there is an outside, the outside of what exactly?


Does the body perceive or is the body perceived?
Does awareness live in a particular location?
Is there something missing when the body is experienced in this way?

If I think there is a self that I need to dissolve then I’m creating a duality. No thing can remove no thing. No thing can be the source of enlightenment. Awareness just is. It needs no thing. The notion of self is just another thought. Thoughts cannot create thoughts. I think!!!
Thinking can't get anything, Thinking is also perceived, isn't it? How would it then be possible that thinking can explain perceiving? Thinking cannot go beyond itself... Therefore: Not thinking – LOOKING :))

Much love, Barb :)


I can’t tell how the body is. It is just a label. I feel sensations of the body but that doesn’t indicate size. Even size feels foreign.

The body does not have a weight or a circumference. This is a belief.
In my current experience.
I can feel my clothes based on them touching my body. All is just pure sense though.

There is no border between the body and the surface just 1 sensation.

I don’t know how many toes there are. It is just one block of feeling.

The body does not have a name. It’s just sense.
When I examine closer there is no inside or outside. This feels still quite intellectual for me though.

The body sense arises. The body does not sense.
Awareness is untouchable and cannot be grasped.

Nothing is missing.

Love this. Image
Barb is poss, what will be great is to get a couple of questions. Then I’ll build up momentum on this.

A great exercise.


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barb
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Re: SamK

Postby barb » Sat Apr 11, 2020 10:54 am

Love this. A great exercise.
Great job with the body experiment :) Do this as often it comes in mind, you can do it also in everyday life, check sometimes if there is a border anywhere or if there is a body at all if you not think about it... :)
Nothing is missing.
If nothing is missing, what are you looking for? What do you want? What are you searching for?
Don't look for something, look at THIS what is here right now!

Barb is poss, what will be great is to get a couple of questions. Then I’ll build up momentum on this.
Sure, there are a lot of experiments and questions I could give and ask you. But all these exercises and questions should only lead to the following questions and the answers to that:

1. Do thoughts know anything about reality?
2. Is "I" more than just thought?


What is missing in this very moment? Could/should this moment be anything other than it is?


Hold these questions in mind, whenever it comes up, compare what thoughts are narrating with the direct experience of this moment. If that which thoughts are saying is not to see-hear-feel-taste-smell than it is actually not true. And also look ever now and then for a separate entity "I". Look as if it would be so very important as if you would look for your car key which you would need instantly!

Much love
Looking —> Seeing....Seeing —> Freedom

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Sam47
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Re: SamK

Postby Sam47 » Sun Apr 12, 2020 10:46 pm

Love this. A great exercise.
Great job with the body experiment :) Do this as often it comes in mind, you can do it also in everyday life, check sometimes if there is a border anywhere or if there is a body at all if you not think about it... :)
Nothing is missing.
If nothing is missing, what are you looking for? What do you want? What are you searching for?
Don't look for something, look at THIS what is here right now!

Barb is poss, what will be great is to get a couple of questions. Then I’ll build up momentum on this.
Sure, there are a lot of experiments and questions I could give and ask you. But all these exercises and questions should only lead to the following questions and the answers to that:

1. Do thoughts know anything about reality?
2. Is "I" more than just thought?


What is missing in this very moment? Could/should this moment be anything other than it is?


Hold these questions in mind, whenever it comes up, compare what thoughts are narrating with the direct experience of this moment. If that which thoughts are saying is not to see-hear-feel-taste-smell than it is actually not true. And also look ever now and then for a separate entity "I". Look as if it would be so very important as if you would look for your car key which you would need instantly!

Much love

Nothing is missing -

I want to not seek and to deepen my sense of knowing right now. Right now: I don’t know is the answer. When you bring my attention to THIS moment. I can’t find anything to look for. It’s just sensations.


Thoughts don’t know anything about reality. The thought of a given reality is just a thought.

The I thought is no different from any other sensation, it is entwined in. Sensations do not belong to a the I thought. Sensations cannot arise from a sensation.

This moment should be anything that it is. It can’t be anything else other than what it is.

I like the car key analogy. I’d be God if looking for car keys was helpful! Image

Lots of love
Sam


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barb
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Re: SamK

Postby barb » Mon Apr 13, 2020 10:49 am

I want to not seek
How does this „seeking“ look like in direct experience? What of the search can you see-hear-feel? Could it be that this seeking is just another story told by thoughts?
and to deepen my sense of knowing right now.
There is nothing more to know than you actually know.

Who or what wants to deepen the sense of knowing? How do you expect should this look like? Search for the entity which wants to know. Is there a separate entity?

You know you are, right? Or better said, you know there is beingness/aliveness/existence or whatever word you prefer. There is being and it is known...

Do you know this sometimes more and sometimes less? Do you have any doubt, that there is beingness?

There is really nothing more to know, nowhere some hidden truth under a stone or so, always just this what is here right now in this very moment.... and in this.... and in this..... There is perceiving and the knowing of the perceiving, that's IT!
Right now: I don’t know is the answer. When you bring my attention to THIS moment. I can’t find anything to look for. It’s just sensations.
Very good! "I don't know" is the best place to be... :)
It can’t be anything else other than what it is.
Keep remembering it!
I’d be God if looking for car keys was helpful! 
I don't really get what you mean with this, maybe it's a language issue because English is not my first language...

Ponder a little bit about the following questions, contemplate it, feel it...

To clarify, what is the answer when you ask, is there a separate self?
What do you get for the answer? How does the body react to that question?

When does the separate self appear? Does that appearance point to an actual self that is separate from the whole? Does a story about me, create an actual entity me, that is in charge of a separate piece of life?
What is it separate from? How do you know that it’s a separate self? Does egoic behavior require a separate self to happen? (when the kid realizes that Santa is not real, but a man dressed up in red clothes, is it ok for the man dressed up in red close appear next Christmas? Does real Santa reappear?)



Lots of love to you Sam <3
Looking —> Seeing....Seeing —> Freedom

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Sam47
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Re: SamK

Postby Sam47 » Tue Apr 14, 2020 2:02 pm

I want to not seek
How does this „seeking“ look like in direct experience? What of the search can you see-hear-feel? Could it be that this seeking is just another story told by thoughts?
and to deepen my sense of knowing right now.
There is nothing more to know than you actually know.

Who or what wants to deepen the sense of knowing? How do you expect should this look like? Search for the entity which wants to know. Is there a separate entity?

You know you are, right? Or better said, you know there is beingness/aliveness/existence or whatever word you prefer. There is being and it is known...

Do you know this sometimes more and sometimes less? Do you have any doubt, that there is beingness?

There is really nothing more to know, nowhere some hidden truth under a stone or so, always just this what is here right now in this very moment.... and in this.... and in this..... There is perceiving and the knowing of the perceiving, that's IT!
Right now: I don’t know is the answer. When you bring my attention to THIS moment. I can’t find anything to look for. It’s just sensations.
Very good! "I don't know" is the best place to be... :)
It can’t be anything else other than what it is.
Keep remembering it!
I’d be God if looking for car keys was helpful! 
I don't really get what you mean with this, maybe it's a language issue because English is not my first language...

Ponder a little bit about the following questions, contemplate it, feel it...

To clarify, what is the answer when you ask, is there a separate self?
What do you get for the answer? How does the body react to that question?

When does the separate self appear? Does that appearance point to an actual self that is separate from the whole? Does a story about me, create an actual entity me, that is in charge of a separate piece of life?
What is it separate from? How do you know that it’s a separate self? Does egoic behavior require a separate self to happen? (when the kid realizes that Santa is not real, but a man dressed up in red clothes, is it ok for the man dressed up in red close appear next Christmas? Does real Santa reappear?)



Lots of love to you Sam <3
There is no separate self, but I cannot know this, because it is veiled by thought.

However this truth gathers more depth, the more I surrender to this. The body reacts by holding onto the belief in the separate self. Resistance.

The separate self appears when it’s existence is challenged. The appearance of this resistance has been allowed by consciousness, so all experiences point to God. My story about me, does not have an. Independent nature and is not separate it is separate from nothing. Separate and egoism is all allowed by consciousness.
Egoic behaviour does not require a separate self to happen because their is no separate self. This would imply two consciousnesses.

The real santa Image....never appears in the known.

Lots of love
Sam


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barb
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Re: SamK

Postby barb » Wed Apr 15, 2020 11:48 am

There is no separate self, but I cannot know this, because it is veiled by thought.
What is veiled by thought? The "no-separate-self"? Do you expect that there is a „no-self“ which can be seen or known? There is neither a separate „I“ nor a „no-I“... :)

A little exercise. Close your eyes and imagine that you hold a watermelon in the hands. Imagine them so vividly that you can feel their weight, shape, and surface. Hold it, feel it imagine it as good as possible.
Then open your eyes.

What happened to the melon? What about the sensation that seemed so believable? Is there now a "no-watermelon"?
However this truth gathers more depth, the more I surrender to this. The body reacts by holding onto the belief in the separate self. Resistance.
Can you do this "surrendering"? Or is this also just a happening?
How does „resistance“ look like in direct experience? What of it can be seen-heart-felt? What of it is just a story told by thought?

The separate self appears when it’s existence is challenged.
How does this separate self look like? Does it stand suddenly in front of you? Can it be seen-heard-felt-tasted-smelt? Is the thought about an apparently separate self not also seen?

Much love :)
Looking —> Seeing....Seeing —> Freedom

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Sam47
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Re: SamK

Postby Sam47 » Sat Apr 18, 2020 5:46 pm

There is no separate self, but I cannot know this, because it is veiled by thought.
What is veiled by thought? The "no-separate-self"? Do you expect that there is a „no-self“ which can be seen or known? There is neither a separate „I“ nor a „no-I“... :)

A little exercise. Close your eyes and imagine that you hold a watermelon in the hands. Imagine them so vividly that you can feel their weight, shape, and surface. Hold it, feel it imagine it as good as possible.
Then open your eyes.

What happened to the melon? What about the sensation that seemed so believable? Is there now a "no-watermelon"?
However this truth gathers more depth, the more I surrender to this. The body reacts by holding onto the belief in the separate self. Resistance.
Can you do this "surrendering"? Or is this also just a happening?
How does „resistance“ look like in direct experience? What of it can be seen-heart-felt? What of it is just a story told by thought?

The separate self appears when it’s existence is challenged.
How does this separate self look like? Does it stand suddenly in front of you? Can it be seen-heard-felt-tasted-smelt? Is the thought about an apparently separate self not also seen?

Much love :)
The no self cannot be veiled. I sometimes have a belief around a separate self and an expectation that it needs to be dissolved.

The melon vanished when I opened my eyes. The sensations disappeared.

When I examine resistance I realise there is never resistance. Surrendering and resistance are just happenings.

I cannot find a separate self. It has no independent sensations and feelings. I don’t know what it looks like. I guess because it doesn’t look like.

The thought about a separate self is also not seen.

Lots of love
Sam


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