SamK

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barb
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Re: SamK

Postby barb » Mon Jan 20, 2020 1:13 pm

I found the second one truer. I could sense more of a disconnect with the first one and felt less in the flow.

Without labels is pure sensation. It feels wholesome. Labels create a sense of separation from the view of me. ‘ Me’ or I seems to get in the way.

I felt more peaceful with the second exercise. It forced me to address immediate experience without a need to own it.
Great :) Yes, the body knows...
Thank you. Enjoyed this one
Maybe you will make these joyful experiments a habit ...

Lets have a look how the mind works:

Look at the mind as an automatic labeling machine, a narrator without an on-off switch. Its purpose is to name what the senses perceive, to label feelings, and to narrate the story.

Sit for a couple of minutes, relax, slow gentle breathing, close your eyes, calm down.

Then open your eyes and look around you. Notice how thoughts spring up and label objects, tell a story about things, how they got there, without you having any control over them.

Thoughts are just that—labels that point to things, senses or ideas. Don’t pay much attention to content, but observe how the labeling mechanism works.

Close your eyes again: A sound is heard and thoughts describe what happened. A tingling sensation comes and thoughts label it. Just pay attention to how something is experienced and then labeled immediately afterward.

How is this for you? Can you see how everything runs on automatic?


Look and have fun with it :)
Looking —> Seeing....Seeing —> Freedom

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Sam47
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Re: SamK

Postby Sam47 » Sat Jan 25, 2020 6:42 pm

I see how it happens instantly. I can see there is resistance to let go of our labelling machine.

It’s so compelling but at the same time never fully nourishing.

I love when I can sense a hidden power behind content. An invisible unknowable force at work.

When I am still; life and experience happens. I’m just aware of this moving through.

My interpretations fill the space and look real. I can hear my music, but there is no my music just sound. I can feel my mind jumping straight onto interpreting it.

Thanks Barb. Great to share.


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barb
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Re: SamK

Postby barb » Sun Jan 26, 2020 1:23 pm

I see how it happens instantly. I can see there is resistance to let go of our labelling machine
.
Great! Is it necessary to let go of the labeling machine? Is it not enough to see how it happens?
It’s so compelling but at the same time never fully nourishing.

I love when I can sense a hidden power behind content. An invisible unknowable force at work.

When I am still; life and experience happens. I’m just aware of this moving through.
Can there a separate entity be found? Or is there just: being still, being aware... ? Is there an „I“ to which the experiences belong or just experiencing? Can you find a separation anywhere? LOOK carefully without believing the fairytale of thought content...
My interpretations fill the space and look real. I can hear my music, but there is no my music just sound. I can feel my mind jumping straight onto interpreting it.
What makes interpretations to „my“ interpretations? Music to „my“ music? Mind to „my“ mind?

Please write down all the reactions, body sensations, feelings and thoughts that come up when you read these sentences:

There is no separate I, never, nowhere, and never existed. There is no one who experiences something, no one who thinks, decides and acts. There is no one who owns anything or could wake up.

Great to share.
Yes, absolutely... Thank you too :)
Looking —> Seeing....Seeing —> Freedom

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Sam47
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Re: SamK

Postby Sam47 » Thu Jan 30, 2020 5:55 pm

I see how it happens instantly. I can see there is resistance to let go of our labelling machine
.
Great! Is it necessary to let go of the labeling machine? Is it not enough to see how it happens?
It’s so compelling but at the same time never fully nourishing.

I love when I can sense a hidden power behind content. An invisible unknowable force at work.

When I am still; life and experience happens. I’m just aware of this moving through.
Can there a separate entity be found? Or is there just: being still, being aware... ? Is there an „I“ to which the experiences belong or just experiencing? Can you find a separation anywhere? LOOK carefully without believing the fairytale of thought content...
My interpretations fill the space and look real. I can hear my music, but there is no my music just sound. I can feel my mind jumping straight onto interpreting it.
What makes interpretations to „my“ interpretations? Music to „my“ music? Mind to „my“ mind?

Please write down all the reactions, body sensations, feelings and thoughts that come up when you read these sentences:

There is no separate I, never, nowhere, and never existed. There is no one who experiences something, no one who thinks, decides and acts. There is no one who owns anything or could wake up.

Great to share.
Yes, absolutely... Thank you too :)

There is no one there to let go of the labelling machine. The concept will dissolve back into where it arose without any doership required.

I cannot be still. There is just experience. Thought cannot do thought. There is no separation in direct experience.
Thought cannot belong to a thought. Including the separate self thought.


The separate self is taking credit for something that doesn’t belong to it. There is no “my music” ; just sound and the illusion of the I thought picking the next song.

I feel intimacy when I feel no separation. An inclusive love. I also catch myself taking credit for this understanding.
I sense that the “I thought” cannot know anything.

Lots of love
Sam


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barb
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Re: SamK

Postby barb » Fri Jan 31, 2020 12:30 pm

The separate self is taking credit for something that doesn’t belong to it.
Is this true? How can something that does not exist take credit for something? Or is this just thought content? Can this thought content be confirmed with direct experience?
There is no “my music” ; just sound and the illusion of the I thought picking the next song.

I feel intimacy when I feel no separation.
„Intimacy“, „separation“... Are these more than words? There are bodily sensations sometimes pleasant, sometimes unpleasant and thought comes in and give them a label... Look, if this is the case for you... :)

Let's have a look at the nature of thought:

Sit quietly for a couple of minutes, breathe slowly and relax. Then begin watching gently the thoughts:

1. Where do thoughts come from and where do they go? Look curiously at the next thoughts.

2. Can you predict wich thought will come next? Can you stop it if you don't like it? Can you remove a thought once it has appeared?

3. Can you decide NOT to think for a longer period?

4. Can you decide to think only beautiful and pleasant thoughts?

5. Think of a number between 1 and 100. Do you know what number will come before it appears?

6. Is the thought “I” a special thought? Or does it come from the same place as the others?

7. Can a thought think other thoughts?

8. Do you find someone who thinks or does it happen all by itself, without a thinker's control?



Much love to you :)
Looking —> Seeing....Seeing —> Freedom

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Sam47
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Re: SamK

Postby Sam47 » Sun Feb 02, 2020 8:44 pm

The separate self is taking credit for something that doesn’t belong to it.
Is this true? How can something that does not exist take credit for something? Or is this just thought content? Can this thought content be confirmed with direct experience?
There is no “my music” ; just sound and the illusion of the I thought picking the next song.

I feel intimacy when I feel no separation.
„Intimacy“, „separation“... Are these more than words? There are bodily sensations sometimes pleasant, sometimes unpleasant and thought comes in and give them a label... Look, if this is the case for you... :)

Let's have a look at the nature of thought:

Sit quietly for a couple of minutes, breathe slowly and relax. Then begin watching gently the thoughts:

1. Where do thoughts come from and where do they go? Look curiously at the next thoughts.

2. Can you predict wich thought will come next? Can you stop it if you don't like it? Can you remove a thought once it has appeared?

3. Can you decide NOT to think for a longer period?

4. Can you decide to think only beautiful and pleasant thoughts?

5. Think of a number between 1 and 100. Do you know what number will come before it appears?

6. Is the thought “I” a special thought? Or does it come from the same place as the others?

7. Can a thought think other thoughts?

8. Do you find someone who thinks or does it happen all by itself, without a thinker's control?



Much love to you :)


The illusory send of free will creates a sense of owning our behaviour. In true essence it’s just thought. But the repeated ‘I’ thought creates a sense of doership. There is just direct sensing though.


Intimacy feels like a collapse between subject and object. A sense of closeness. It is just a word or a label.

Thoughts just seem to arise I cannot pin them down. I can’t make a thought disappear, and thoughts are unpredictable. If I have an intense experience I feel like I might be in similar thoughts for a while though. I can’t stop my a thought once it has appeared.

I can’t decide not to think. Thought is unpredictable and there is no one thinking either.

I can’t just think beautiful thoughts.

I picked a number and can picture the number before it. I don’t know what number appears before it.

The I thought comes from the same place as the rest of them.

A thought cannot think other thoughts.

Everything happens by itself. There are no thinker’s thoughts. Even other body minds, have no doers in background.

Lots of love
Sam.


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barb
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Re: SamK

Postby barb » Mon Feb 03, 2020 12:31 pm

Great! Beautifully seen with the thought experiment... :)

The problem is, that sometimes it doesn't matter very much if this is seen, as long as there is still belief in thought content.
Here is another wonderful experiment to check this out:

Let's see what the difference is between direct experience and what is interpreted through thought into it:

Place an apple (or another fruit) on a white surface in front of you and examine:

Where does seeing take place? Outside or inside?
Is there a border between outside and inside?
Does raw seeing look more like 2D or 3D, if you only actually see and think nothing?
Look closely: do you actually see an "apple" apart from color?
How do you know the name of the color? Notice how thoughts call what is seen.
Does what you see have a name when you see it or is there just seeing something?

Notice the gap between seeing and labeling.

Is there someone who sees and the seen, or is there just seeing?
Is there an "entity" that perceives a perceived object or is there simply perceiving?
Do you think the experience or is there only experiencing?

The illusory send of free will creates a sense of owning our behaviour. In true essence it’s just thought. But the repeated ‘I’ thought creates a sense of doership. There is just direct sensing though.
Yes, the illusion of will and choice is one great obstacle to see through. Try the following to see for yourself what is true ;)

Lift your right or left arm (or leave it down). While lifting or not lifting a decision happens, at least something happens (or not).

Can you find the exact moment of decision and find the concrete essence which seems to make a decision? Is it really possible to find the moment of decision as well as the apparent "decider"? Or does the idea "I
decided to lift (or not) the right or left arm” emerge only after the actual event?


Have fun with the experiments and be curious like a scientist... :)
Looking —> Seeing....Seeing —> Freedom

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Sam47
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Re: SamK

Postby Sam47 » Wed Feb 12, 2020 9:45 am

Great! Beautifully seen with the thought experiment... :)

The problem is, that sometimes it doesn't matter very much if this is seen, as long as there is still belief in thought content.
Here is another wonderful experiment to check this out:

Let's see what the difference is between direct experience and what is interpreted through thought into it:

Place an apple (or another fruit) on a white surface in front of you and examine:

Where does seeing take place? Outside or inside?
Is there a border between outside and inside?
Does raw seeing look more like 2D or 3D, if you only actually see and think nothing?
Look closely: do you actually see an "apple" apart from color?
How do you know the name of the color? Notice how thoughts call what is seen.
Does what you see have a name when you see it or is there just seeing something?

Notice the gap between seeing and labeling.

Is there someone who sees and the seen, or is there just seeing?
Is there an "entity" that perceives a perceived object or is there simply perceiving?
Do you think the experience or is there only experiencing?

The illusory send of free will creates a sense of owning our behaviour. In true essence it’s just thought. But the repeated ‘I’ thought creates a sense of doership. There is just direct sensing though.
Yes, the illusion of will and choice is one great obstacle to see through. Try the following to see for yourself what is true ;)

Lift your right or left arm (or leave it down). While lifting or not lifting a decision happens, at least something happens (or not).

Can you find the exact moment of decision and find the concrete essence which seems to make a decision? Is it really possible to find the moment of decision as well as the apparent "decider"? Or does the idea "I
decided to lift (or not) the right or left arm” emerge only after the actual event?


Have fun with the experiments and be curious like a scientist... :)


The seeing of the Apple; I can’t pin point a precise location of the Apple. It feels like behind the eyes. I can’t also pinpoint the border.
The seeing in someways feels like a flat line when I really examine.

I don’t see the Apple this is just a label. It’s just a bunch of sensations happening quickly in a space.
I’m just seeing experience. It does not have a name. There is no object doing the perceiving. This is also an object being perceived.
I cannot think the experience. Although hard to experience this! It is all just experience.

Thanks for this. The decision thought happens after the event. I can consciously say though; I’m going to stand up and then stand up. I need help unpicking the free will belief. Ha! Or maybe this is why I struggle with this, because there is no one there to struggle. No one to unpick.

Great to keep exploring this. Thank you.


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barb
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Re: SamK

Postby barb » Wed Feb 12, 2020 12:32 pm

The seeing of the Apple; I can’t pin point a precise location of the Apple. It feels like behind the eyes.
Is this true? What can you find with direct experience of this “feels like behind the eyes”? Look! Is there a feeling of apple-seeing?
I’m just seeing experience.
Look carefully if this is true. Is there an “I” which “sees” “experience”? Or is there just “seeing”? Is there seer-seeing-sought? Or just the process of “seeing”?
It is all just experience.
Yes great! Absolutely, there is just experiencing...
I can consciously say though; I’m going to stand up and then stand up. I need help unpicking the free will belief.
How does this: “I can consciously say” look like? Where does the impulse to "consciously say" come from? Is it conscious before the thought “I stand up” arises? Or does this thought also come out of the blue like all the other thoughts?

Here is another nice experiment:

Place two drinks you like in a glass or cup next to each other on the table in front of you.
Take a look at a drink and think about all the advantages and disadvantages of this drink.
Then look at the other drink and think again about the advantages and disadvantages.

Then close your eyes for half a minute.

Open it again and grab a drink.

How did you decide which drink to pick up?

The next days watch carefully the decisions which occur during everyday life. From the simplest - like what to dress, what to eat or drink and so on – to the more complex (if there are such). Follow the decisions back to its source.

Try to find the point where a separate entity “I” made consciously the decision. Is it possible to find such an entity or such a point? Can a source be found? Dig deep!

Much love and have fun with the digging :)
Looking —> Seeing....Seeing —> Freedom

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Sam47
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Re: SamK

Postby Sam47 » Mon Feb 17, 2020 11:43 pm

The seeing of the Apple; I can’t pin point a precise location of the Apple. It feels like behind the eyes.
Is this true? What can you find with direct experience of this “feels like behind the eyes”? Look! Is there a feeling of apple-seeing?
I’m just seeing experience.
Look carefully if this is true. Is there an “I” which “sees” “experience”? Or is there just “seeing”? Is there seer-seeing-sought? Or just the process of “seeing”?
It is all just experience.
Yes great! Absolutely, there is just experiencing...
I can consciously say though; I’m going to stand up and then stand up. I need help unpicking the free will belief.
How does this: “I can consciously say” look like? Where does the impulse to "consciously say" come from? Is it conscious before the thought “I stand up” arises? Or does this thought also come out of the blue like all the other thoughts?

Here is another nice experiment:

Place two drinks you like in a glass or cup next to each other on the table in front of you.
Take a look at a drink and think about all the advantages and disadvantages of this drink.
Then look at the other drink and think again about the advantages and disadvantages.

Then close your eyes for half a minute.

Open it again and grab a drink.

How did you decide which drink to pick up?

The next days watch carefully the decisions which occur during everyday life. From the simplest - like what to dress, what to eat or drink and so on – to the more complex (if there are such). Follow the decisions back to its source.

Try to find the point where a separate entity “I” made consciously the decision. Is it possible to find such an entity or such a point? Can a source be found? Dig deep!

Much love and have fun with the digging :)

It’s funny I can’t find the I that makes the decision. It feels like there is a chooser, but I can’t find the I.

I didn’t decide to pick up the drink. It just unfolded. Day to day it doesn’t feel like that. It requires real introverted examination to realise this.

On that note consciousness will respond quicker. Much more digging is required. I don’t intuit this yet; day to day.

Thanks so much for the support. Love Sam.


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barb
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Re: SamK

Postby barb » Tue Feb 18, 2020 1:14 pm

It’s funny I can’t find the I that makes the decision. It feels like there is a chooser, but I can’t find the I.
How does this feeling look like? Where in the body is the sensation? Or is this just a story told by conditioned thoughts?
I didn’t decide to pick up the drink. It just unfolded. Day to day it doesn’t feel like that. It requires real introverted examination to realise this.
On that note consciousness will respond quicker. Much more digging is required. I don’t intuit this yet; day to day.
Yes, keep on track and watch this again and again. Until it is very clear and the new normal... :)

All appearances are happening on their own, there is nothing at all that gets engaged. Thoughts about “I, Sam” happen on their own too. There is no doer, no manager, no witness, no thinker, no feeler, but life flowing freely as sensations, as thinking, feeling, witnessing. Just like it’s raining, there is no doer of the rain, there is nobody doing being.

Check, do you need to do anything in order to be?


It's so nice to be with you :) Much love, Barb
Looking —> Seeing....Seeing —> Freedom

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Sam47
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Re: SamK

Postby Sam47 » Thu Feb 20, 2020 6:48 pm

It’s funny I can’t find the I that makes the decision. It feels like there is a chooser, but I can’t find the I.
How does this feeling look like? Where in the body is the sensation? Or is this just a story told by conditioned thoughts?
I didn’t decide to pick up the drink. It just unfolded. Day to day it doesn’t feel like that. It requires real introverted examination to realise this.
On that note consciousness will respond quicker. Much more digging is required. I don’t intuit this yet; day to day.
Yes, keep on track and watch this again and again. Until it is very clear and the new normal... :)

All appearances are happening on their own, there is nothing at all that gets engaged. Thoughts about “I, Sam” happen on their own too. There is no doer, no manager, no witness, no thinker, no feeler, but life flowing freely as sensations, as thinking, feeling, witnessing. Just like it’s raining, there is no doer of the rain, there is nobody doing being.

Check, do you need to do anything in order to be?


It's so nice to be with you :) Much love, Barb

I can’t find a location for the doer. It feels more like a narrative wrapped around experience. Therefore a story told by unconditioned thoughts is the most appropriate description.

I need nothing in order to be and let life unfold.

Lots of love
Sam


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barb
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Re: SamK

Postby barb » Fri Feb 21, 2020 12:40 pm

I need nothing in order to be and let life unfold.
Sounds great! What would you say where do we stand since the beginning of our conversation? Is there something you want to have a look at?

Here I have another nice experiment for you:

Sit at home with eyes closed. In your mind, imagine going to the kitchen and getting a piece of fruit (be sure to choose something you already have in stock, as we will need if after).

Try to fully imagine actually going there, picking it up, the look of it, the color, texture, smell, reflections of light. Then imagine biting into the fruit, tasting it, the texture, sweetness, sharpness, all the qualities. Imagine every aspect, make it as real as possible, and write the descriptions down...

Now open your eyes, and actually go to the kitchen. Take the piece of fruit out for real, and look at it, examine the color, texture, smell, reflections of light. Now actually bite into the fruit and taste it, experience the texture, the sweetness, sharpness, etc.


Now look at your written words and imagine how you would describe the current experience.

Now answer the following:

Do the descriptions have anything in common with the reality of actual experience?
Can a word, such as sweet or juicy, know anything about the reality of actual experience?
Can thought ever know anything about an experience in general?

Has a thought/word/imagination anything to do with direct experience? Can a thought know anything about truth/reality?
Looking —> Seeing....Seeing —> Freedom

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Sam47
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Re: SamK

Postby Sam47 » Tue Feb 25, 2020 10:33 pm

I need nothing in order to be and let life unfold.
Sounds great! What would you say where do we stand since the beginning of our conversation? Is there something you want to have a look at?

Here I have another nice experiment for you:

Sit at home with eyes closed. In your mind, imagine going to the kitchen and getting a piece of fruit (be sure to choose something you already have in stock, as we will need if after).

Try to fully imagine actually going there, picking it up, the look of it, the color, texture, smell, reflections of light. Then imagine biting into the fruit, tasting it, the texture, sweetness, sharpness, all the qualities. Imagine every aspect, make it as real as possible, and write the descriptions down...

Now open your eyes, and actually go to the kitchen. Take the piece of fruit out for real, and look at it, examine the color, texture, smell, reflections of light. Now actually bite into the fruit and taste it, experience the texture, the sweetness, sharpness, etc.


Now look at your written words and imagine how you would describe the current experience.

Now answer the following:

Do the descriptions have anything in common with the reality of actual experience?
Can a word, such as sweet or juicy, know anything about the reality of actual experience?
Can thought ever know anything about an experience in general?

Has a thought/word/imagination anything to do with direct experience? Can a thought know anything about truth/reality?

In answer to your question. The fear of death would be helpful. I get that my true self - awareness cannot die, but it feels more intellectual at this stage.



Right back to the explorations:

I can see the bananas. They are yellow I pull one off and then peel it. I feel the smooth skin of the banana and the rough end when I peel it. I see the fruit inside and the colour and the slightly dimpled texture and take a bite. The sensations are soft and sweet. I feel the banana in my mouth and it break up into smaller pieces. I feel the sensation of swallowing the banana. I then take another bite. I can also smell the skin of the banana, which is a little bitter.

Everything feels more real when I ate the banana. The words and the descriptions did however conjure up some elements of experience the experience as described above.
However the experience was weaker and distant in my imagination. I can imagine sweetness. I could imagine the bitterness of the banana skins.

The thought of eating the banana was not incongruous to the experience. They did correlate on some levels. I could see the banana in my mind. I knew what it would look like when I peeled and I had an understanding of what it would taste like. All conjured from thought about an upcoming experience. I also experienced the predicted sweetness of the banana.

Interesting exercise. Thank-you Barb.
Love Sam










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barb
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Re: SamK

Postby barb » Wed Feb 26, 2020 12:48 pm

In answer to your question. The fear of death would be helpful.
The first time I've read your post, I didn't really check what you've meant with this. A thought came up: „Great, Sam had the insight that fear of death would be helpful“... Haha :) And yes, fear of death is really helpful, it helps the body to survive, it is just a surviving tool. Otherwise, why jump away from the nearing car? Or maybe one day the coffee tastes horrible, the meal is cold – ok I'll jump out of the window... ;))

The second time reading I got it...
Ok, let's have a look at this.
What is this fear of death made of? Where and how in the body is the sensation called fear, and what of this fear of death is just a story told by thoughts? Dive deep and try to feel the sensations...
I get that my true self - awareness cannot die, but it feels more intellectual at this stage.
What is the true self? Is there a false self and a true self? Can this „true“ self be found in direct experience or is this just hearsay? What if there is neither a true nor a false self? What if there is always just THIS, just whats going on from moment to moment and the perceiving of it? No hidden truth which you haven't found yet?


The thought of eating the banana was not incongruous to the experience. They did correlate on some levels. I could see the banana in my mind. I knew what it would look like when I peeled and I had an understanding of what it would taste like. All conjured from thought about an upcoming experience. I also experienced the predicted sweetness of the banana.
Does the word „sweet“ carry some sweetness? Or is it just a description of something you have experienced sometime? If you never had experienced sweetness could you then do something with this word?
Imagine you would like to try to describe someone who never saw or ate a banana the banana experience... Would this be possible?


The point with these exercises is to see how much the thought content has to do with the reality of experience and subsequently if „I“ or „self“ is more than just thought... :)
Interesting exercise.
Do this exercise more often in your everyday life before you eat or drink, before you take a shower or whatever. Imagine it first and then compare the current experience with the description. See if words and mental images can actually describe reality or if they are just a kind of sketch ...:)
Looking —> Seeing....Seeing —> Freedom


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