No religion know God

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mohawk
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No religion know God

Postby mohawk » Sun Dec 08, 2019 5:19 am

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
The self that we think we are is really what the mind has created.Beyond who our minds say we are there is a natural place that knows no self.

What are you looking for at LU?
To gain better understanding of how to live Life.If there is no self then why do I care so much about my life and some of the things I’m supposed to care about.I would like answers so I don’t feel this division inside me.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
My expectation would be to have a clearer understanding what no self really means.Enough to articulate it to others.Feel like I’m almost there but am lacking the knowing.Its as if something is blocking me from it.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
Meditation and listening to spiritual teachers like Mooji,Tolle and others

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self?
1

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Sunyata67
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Re: No religion know God

Postby Sunyata67 » Fri Jan 03, 2020 9:11 pm

Hello Mohawk (would you like me to call you that or use another name?)

I saw you first posted on 8th December sorry for the long wait, there are a lot of folks waiting for a guide here on LU at the moment, maybe a new year thing….
My name is Simon and I can be your guide if you would like. You will be my first client here at LU!!!!
If you would like to go ahead, please read and do the following. Let me know when you have completed these by posting a reply on this thread please.

If you haven't already read the disclaimer, please read it now and just confirm to me that you have read it. Here is the link.

http://liberationunleashed.com/disclaimer-2/

Also please read “Liberation Unleashed is not …” in the FAQ’s of LU. Here is the link.

http://liberationunleashed.com/about/faq/#faq-1041

Some housekeeping guidelines:-
1. Post at least once a day, or every second day. If you need more time, or are unable to post for several days, just write a quick post on your thread to let me know please.

2. There is no one judging answers given, so please be100% honest in your answers and inquiry.

3. This exploration is based on actual experience (AE) - smell, taste, sound, sensation, colour and observed thoughts. Long-winded analytical and philosophical answers are best avoided and may even hinder progress. This is not a self-improvement process. There is no ‘self’ to improve.

4. Put aside all other teachings, philosophies, rituals, practices, books/reading and so on for the remainder of this investigation. Really put all your effort and attention in to seeing this reality, as it is. If you have a daily meditation practice, it is fine to continue that but is not necessary for this exploration.

Technology is not perfect and sometimes there is a glitch which can wipe out your responses. It is advisable that you copy and paste questions asked into Word, answer them there and then copy and paste them to your thread. Always save a copy of what you have done, it will save time in the long run!

To begin with, so that we both become aware of what your expectations are about this exploration. In your own words (not from actual experience, but just honest answers), could you please answer the 5 following questions:

Your response to this question stood out from the crowd of 10,s and 11,s, why did you put 1?
On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self?
1
How will life change?
How will you change?
What will be different?
What is missing?

Throughout this exploration I would like you to answer all questions that I have written in blue text. Please can you answer questions individually, remembering to use the quote function to highlight the question being answered?
I am happy to answer any questions you may have.
Looking forward to seeing where we get to.

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Sunyata67
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Re: No religion know God

Postby Sunyata67 » Fri Jan 03, 2020 9:15 pm

Hello Mohawk (would you like me to call you that or use another name?)

I saw you first posted on 8th December sorry for the long wait, there are a lot of folks waiting for a guide here on LU at the moment, maybe a new year thing….
My name is Simon and I can be your guide if you would like. You will be my first client here at LU!!!!
If you would like to go ahead, please read and do the following. Let me know when you have completed these by posting a reply on this thread please.

If you haven't already read the disclaimer, please read it now and just confirm to me that you have read it. Here is the link.

http://liberationunleashed.com/disclaimer-2/

Also please read “Liberation Unleashed is not …” in the FAQ’s of LU. Here is the link.

http://liberationunleashed.com/about/faq/#faq-1041

Some housekeeping guidelines:-
1. Post at least once a day, or every second day. If you need more time, or are unable to post for several days, just write a quick post on your thread to let me know please.

2. There is no one judging answers given, so please be100% honest in your answers and inquiry.

3. This exploration is based on actual experience (AE) - smell, taste, sound, sensation, colour and observed thoughts. Long-winded analytical and philosophical answers are best avoided and may even hinder progress. This is not a self-improvement process. There is no ‘self’ to improve.

4. Put aside all other teachings, philosophies, rituals, practices, books/reading and so on for the remainder of this investigation. Really put all your effort and attention in to seeing this reality, as it is. If you have a daily meditation practice, it is fine to continue that but is not necessary for this exploration.

Technology is not perfect and sometimes there is a glitch which can wipe out your responses. It is advisable that you copy and paste questions asked into Word, answer them there and then copy and paste them to your thread. Always save a copy of what you have done, it will save time in the long run!

To begin with, so that we both become aware of what your expectations are about this exploration. In your own words (not from actual experience, but just honest answers), could you please answer the 5 following questions:

Your response to this question stood out from the crowd of 10,s and 11,s, why did you put 1?
On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self?
1
How will life change?
How will you change?
What will be different?
What is missing?


Throughout this exploration I would like you to answer all questions that I have written in blue text. Please can you answer questions individually, remembering to use the quote function to highlight the question being answered?
I am happy to answer any questions you may have.
Looking forward to seeing where we get to.

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mohawk
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Re: No religion know God

Postby mohawk » Tue Jan 07, 2020 3:01 am

“You can call me Kelly”
“I have read disclaimers 1&2”
“Believe I misunderstood question and that is the reason #1
How will life change?”Life itself won’t change ,but how I look at will
How will you change?”I won’t look at things from the false self perspective”
What will be different?”A knowing”
What is missing?The belief or should I say the reassurance I’m on the right track

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Sunyata67
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Re: No religion know God

Postby Sunyata67 » Tue Jan 07, 2020 6:24 pm

Hello again Karen

You said above, “If there is no self then why do I care so much about my life and some of the things I’m supposed to care about.I would like answers so I don’t feel this division inside me.”
I have found that I have stopped caring so much about a lot of the things “I am supposed to care about” but I did find other things that I do actually care about. This is a whole area of work in itself but I would like to leave that topic for now if that is OK with you?

Can you describe some more for me how you feel and interact with this division please? Where does the feeling come from and is it always the same or are there particular things that make it stronger or weaker? Does this feeling trigger other of thoughts and feelings? Is it located in a particular part of your body, is it a physical feeling or more a thought?

How will you change? ”I won’t look at things from the false self perspective”

I am interested in from where you are at the moment what makes up a “self”.
What is the difference between a belief and a direct experience? The difference between being and experiencing?
There are no right and wrong answers to this I would just like to get your perspective on these things as it is at the moment.

“What will be different?” A knowing”

What do you think such a knowing could be based on? What entity would be knowing?[/color]

What is missing? The belief or should I say the reassurance I’m on the right track”

Hopefully we can work together so that you are both reassured and on the right track 😊
I would like to ask you to do one last exercise around expectations and reactions before we move on. Please could you write down the next paragraph....

There is no separate self at all in reality. No agent that is in charge, no manager, no watcher, no owner of life; all there is is life flowing freely as one movement.

Watch, wait, notice, write- what comes up? Is there fear? Is there a doubt? Resistance? Frustration? Something that wants to scream and make a turn away, something that says this is not working? Or maybe there is a feeling of wow, joy, relief?
Notice all that is going on inside and just put it down in writing.


Since you do a meditation practice you could also try introducing the ideas above as thoughts during a meditation and see if any reactions arise.

It would be great if you could try this and then let me know back in this thread how you found this practice.
I don’t plan to do a lot of theorising and intellectual work, we will be mostly doing practical exercises. I am asking these questions on feelings to get to know you a little better and also so later on we can look back at your replies and see what may have changed.

If you have any questions for me of any sort that’s fine, this will be a two way communication for us.


Simon

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mohawk
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Re: No religion know God

Postby mohawk » Wed Jan 08, 2020 2:16 pm

Wow just the questions you ask gives a stirring inside me.Thanks for the questions.Love the challenge.
How I interact with the division is “I feel shame”
Where does the feeling come from “maybe from my ego I hope”
Is it always the same.”Yes”
Are there things that Make it particularly stronger”yes,things like comparing myself to our conditioned way we’ve been taught”
Does the feeling trigger other thoughts and feelings.”no”
Is it a physical feeling or more a thought.”Starts out as a feeling and then a thought”

What makes up self.”My thoughts.But as I write this I realize we are not our thoughts but for some reason it becomes almost hypnotic and then I’m swept in.What makes up self is thoughts,feeling,emotions and experiences”

The difference between a belief and a direct experience.”Belief is an outcome from the experience”
What I think a knowing could be based on.”I guess a knowing could be based on convincing my thoughts that all I’m gaining from my understanding of all this is right.”
What entity would be knowing.”The one that we are all connected to when we allow the flow of life”

There is no separate self at all in reality.No agent that is in charge,no manager,no watcher no owner of life..All there is is life flowing freely as one movement..”There was a little disappointment as I wrote it out on paper and a little sorrow mixed with joy.It really made me think and will make me think all day today.””

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Sunyata67
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Re: No religion know God

Postby Sunyata67 » Wed Jan 08, 2020 6:05 pm

Hi Karen
“Wow just the questions you ask gives a stirring inside me.Thanks for the questions.Love the challenge.”
That’s great news, good to hear. More challenges coming up, there will be a lot of questioning during this process and less describing or explaining (hopefully). Apologies for a long posy but a lot has come up already. Don’t feel you need to wait and respond to this in one big post, reply any way that feels right to you, multiple small posts is fine.

“How I interact with the division is “I feel shame”
Where does the feeling come from “maybe from my ego I hope”
Is it always the same.”Yes”
Are there things that Make it particularly stronger”yes,things like comparing myself to our conditioned way we’ve been taught”
Does the feeling trigger other thoughts and feelings.”no”
Is it a physical feeling or more a thought.”Starts out as a feeling and then a thought””

Starts out with a feeling and then a thought is a good observation. We will have a closer look soon at thoughts and the relationship they have with actual events such as feeling and sensing.
Its is common to feel shame or dis-satisfaction when comparing ourselves to ideals or others who we see as better in some way. The whole mental attitude of judging, labelling this thing as unsatisfactory and that thing as satisfactory, this event as good and this as bad, inevitably leads to negative feelings and suffering. I would like to leave this for now if that’s OK with you but we can come back to later?
All I will ask for now is that you look at what are the components of “shame” are any of these components real or is it all thoughts? This may be a hard exercise but should be worthwhile, can you have a look at this process of comparing yourself to these ideas please? Choose something that you know will trigger this response and just list out what is the perceived fault in yourself, what is the ideal that you are comparing yourself against. Can you look at what occurs in your mind and body as you do this please?

“What makes up self.”My thoughts.But as I write this I realize we are not our thoughts but for some reason it becomes almost hypnotic and then I’m swept in.What makes up self is thoughts,feeling,emotions and experiences””

This is a very helpful answer, thank you for putting the effort into thinking about this.
I propose we do some exercises soon on the thoughts, feelings and emotions that construct thoughts of a self. Interesting that you don’t mention a “body” as the self as some folks do, but for me clearly the body is not the self, would you agree? If you are not sure we can do some excercises on this as well.
Thinking that we (our image of self) are made of experiences seems to me a little more problematic. Are we made of experiences or are we made of thoughts and memories (also thoughts) about experiences?


“The difference between a belief and a direct experience.”Belief is an outcome from the experience””
Yes, well put. I think some thinking about the experience is needed as well for it to be a belief?
In your own words please could you tell me what beliefs are made of when you examine one? Look at the belief “I am a self” and please tell me what is present.
How could you be sure of something as an actual experience rather than a belief? What are experiences made of is a question I would like to do some exercises on, but could you think of this and let me have your thoughts please before we do the exercises?

“What I think a knowing could be based on.”I guess a knowing could be based on convincing my thoughts that all I’m gaining from my understanding of all this is right.”
What entity would be knowing.”The one that we are all connected to when we allow the flow of life””
I think anything based on thoughts would be a belief, so if you currently have a belief that you are a self what would happen if you then used thoughts to arrive at the idea that you are not a self that would be another belief.? I think for a knowing to happen there has to be a direct experience. Please have a think on this and let me know your thoughts? So my approach here will be to try and help you understand clearly what a direct experience is compare to a thought. More on this to follow…… but now some practical work…..

I would like to move on to some simple exercises, going back to the idea of direct experiences (DE) versus things that we imagine/think. I would like you to see clearly the difference between direct experiences and thoughts.
If I ask you what colour socks you are wearing right now you have two ways to come up
with an answer:
• You can have a think about it, you can think back to this morning and try to remember
putting your socks on, and you can probably tell me what colour you think they are.
• Alternatively, you can take a quick look at your socks and tell me what colour they
actually are!
Hopefully you would agree that you can only be 100% certain by looking.

So, if the above seems clear to you please can you sit quietly and relax, take your time just looking at what is in front of you for awhile.
Observe how the mind is dividing and labelling every thing into objects and is embellishing
them with stories about what they are.
Give it some time
Then, stop watching the objects as labelled objects. Just look at the seeing itself. Observe
the pure process of seeing. This is direct experience (DE). You can do the same thing with listening as well if you like.
Now have a think about the mechanics of direct experience, what senses do we have to directly experience, is it easy to just directly experience or does the mind add thoughts and labels and stories onto the experiences?
I hope you enjoy these excercises and look forward to chatting some more.


There is no separate self at all in reality.No agent that is in charge,no manager,no watcher no owner of life..All there is is life flowing freely as one movement..”There was a little disappointment as I wrote it out on paper and a little sorrow mixed with joy.It really made me think and will make me think all day today.””

Yes I had that and it is common that there is disappointment, probably as we think we may be losing something if we lose a “self” as there are a lot of concepts related to the self, free will, self-improvement, just to name a couple. Yes there is a joy as well. We will leave this and now and talk more later if that’s OK with you. I think it is good to have looked at this now as we can come back from further down the road and see what may have changed.

Please keep up the good work, I have believe we are making progress.

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mohawk
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Re: No religion know God

Postby mohawk » Fri Jan 10, 2020 2:11 pm

“Thanks for the questions.Have really been thinking about all this”The components of shame that you ask are “Who am i to assume a belief that’s contrary to common sense way of always being under the spell of an individual self!.”
Is it real or is it all thoughts”It’s all thought.The thoughts come and then the feelings”
Choose something that you know will trigger this response and what is the perceived thought.”Trigger thought is I could be wrong”and perceived thought is “I told you so!”
Would you agree we are not the body”100% I agree”
Are we made of experiences or thoughts and memories ”I would say both are contributions”
“I will ended it here and continue with the rest of what you’ve asked.I would like to leave you with a realization I had yesterday which I hope is in part of where you are wanting me to be..Life is not here for us but we are here for life.Life cannot be manipulated by a self

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Sunyata67
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Re: No religion know God

Postby Sunyata67 » Fri Jan 10, 2020 6:55 pm

Hi Kelly (apologies I got confused and called you Karen before)

I hope you are enjoying our journey together so far? This post will be a biggie as I think we are getting deeper in now. I will be asking you a lot of questions as from my experience this is how progress can be made. Feel free to take as long as you like on each question and don’t feel that you have to respond fully all at once on one post.

I forgot to ask about your meditation practice, What sort of meditation practice do you do?
“Thanks for the questions.Have really been thinking about all this”The components of shame that you ask are “Who am i to assume a belief that’s contrary to common sense way of always being under the spell of an individual self!.”
Is it real or is it all thoughts”It’s all thought.The thoughts come and then the feelings”
Choose something that you know will trigger this response and what is the perceived thought.”Trigger thought is I could be wrong”and perceived thought is “I told you so!”
Does there have to be a you assuming anything? What we are doing is asking some questions and observing what we can see with our senses. Is it wrong to ask questions and observe?
“You” could be wrong, you could be right, how important is that and who is judging?

I think we should move on from the realm of thoughts and look at some actual practices and exercises based on actual experiences, ie reality.
Are we made of experiences or thoughts and memories ”I would say both are contributions”
I would say that nothing real can be made of thoughts as thoughts are not real, so what you are seeming to say is that the self is made entirely of thoughts that occur in the mind and is not existing outside of the mind (as we have already agreed the self is not the physical body). What is your reaction to this in terms of feelings and thoughts?
I would like us to do some exercises around the difference between actual experience and experiences made from thoughts to clarify this. Also I think it will show you that thoughts can trigger feelings, so logically if we base a belief about self on feelings we could actually be believing in a thought “I” and not an actual thing…….. The “self” could be entirely made up of thoughts and feelings triggered by thoughts…?
If I ask you what colour socks you are wearing right now you have two ways to come up
with an answer:
• You can have a think about it, you can think back to this morning and try to remember
putting your socks on, and you can probably tell me what colour you think they are.
• Alternatively, you can take a quick look at your socks and tell me what colour they
actually are!
Hopefully you would agree that you can only be 100% certain by looking?
Close your eyes and imagine you are in the kitchen. Just visualize and look around, notice where things are put. Notice the space, the feel of it.
This is an image, it can trigger feelings and contractions - expansions, thought stories and feelings attached to them. Open eyes and see how an image can be created and explored in the mind.

Now go to the kitchen and look at the same things that you saw in the image, how does imagining and experiencing the same things differ? Is the image of the kitchen and experience of the kitchen the same?

Have a look at an apple. If you have a ‘real’ apple, please use it for this exercise.
When looking at an apple, there's colour; a thought saying ‘apple’; and maybe a thought
saying, "I'm looking at an apple."
What is known for sure? Colour is known and thoughts are known.
What about the content of thoughts, what they describe?
Actual experience does not refer to thoughts ABOUT something…because that is only just
more thought. Actual experience is sound, thought, colour, smell, taste, sensation.
Is there really an ‘apple’ here, or only colour and a thought ABOUT ‘apple’?
Can ‘apple’ be found in actual experience?
While these thoughts are known, what they talk ABOUT can't be found in actual
experience.
This is what is meant by ‘looking in actual experience , what you know for sure, and, is
always here.
Taste labelled ‘apple’ is known
Colour labelled ‘apple’ is known
Sensation labelled ‘apple’ is known (when apple is touched)
Smell labelled ‘apple’ is known
Thought about/of an ‘apple’ is known
However, is an apple actually known?
Now, since we have an apple here….imagine eating the apple. You can imagine of the smell of the apple as you bring it to your mouth, the texture and sound as you bite, the taste sensations etc. Close your eyes and imagine eating the apple. Do any sensations arise, do you start to salivate, are there thoughts, feelings emotions, try to experience and remember all of this.
Now you can open your eyes and eat the apple. How does the direct experience of eating the apple differ from the imagined experience? In the direct experience is a “taster” needed or is taste just happening? Is there a gap between an experiencer and experienced? Is there an entity that claims this taste “mine”? Are thoughts about experience touching experience itself? Does description of taste come in touch with the taste experienced? Explore how concepts overlay experience and create a story about what is happening. But all that concepts talk about are other concepts.
Is experiencer actuality or a concept?
Can you decide to stop tasting or in any way change the process of tasting? Is there an eater, an I directing every time you chew and swallow, or is chewing/swallowing just happening?
Now focus on the image of me, the separate individual entity, the I. Is it an image (like the imaginary apple) or an actual entity (like the real apple you just ate)?
What do you find?

I would like to leave you with a realization I had yesterday which I hope is in part of where you are wanting me to be..Life is not here for us but we are here for life.Life cannot be manipulated by a self

This is going in a direction I can relate to yes. I do believe that life cannot be manipulated by a self, as there is no self.
There are indeed a lot of positive things associated with the thought “we are here for life”, it puts us away from a mode of judging life as not meeting our expectations, being broken in some way or owing us anything, makes us think along the lines of how we can make life and people/things we interact with better by our actions.
I have some questions for you around this as well though. Does “we are here for life” have to exclude “life is here for us”? Could it be both at the same time? Really what are the essential differences between life and us, are we alive or not alive, part of life or not?
Is there separation between a sensation and the experience of it?
How is awareness (I) separated from what is experienced (life)?
Is there an edge or line to be found between the “you” and sensations or thoughts, ie LIFE?


After the exercises above I would like us to do some practical exercises on this also…

How are you feeling so far about the journey of enquiry we are on together?

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Sunyata67
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Re: No religion know God

Postby Sunyata67 » Tue Jan 14, 2020 6:42 pm

Hi Kelly

Are you good to continue on here, asking as its been a few days?

You dont need to answer all the questions in my last post, we can go in a different direction if that would help.

Simon

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mohawk
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Re: No religion know God

Postby mohawk » Wed Jan 15, 2020 1:43 am

Greetings Simon!My apologies. Life got busyYou gave me a lot to think about.
“My meditation practice could always be better but I’m always drawn back in when I feel my self slipping back into mind chatter.I usually do 20 minutes of being present and not attaching and following thoughts”
“I know there are many questions you’ve asked of me but as I have reread your post many times I’m seeing most of your questions and advice made me believe less in my thoughts that have been preventing me of understanding.I had something happen in my meditation that’s made a difference.I LOOKED!!to see if there was a me and I did not find me!!!.All I found was an AWARENESS that seemed to be more real then a person I’ve always thought was a ME.””I know I am not my body,thoughts,feelings and EXPERIENCES.You showed me and uncovered a lot.Ive felt like since I’m the EXPERIENCER then there must an I..I don’t have the head knowledge to explain any of this to someone but then again do I need to.

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Re: No religion know God

Postby Sunyata67 » Wed Jan 15, 2020 7:27 pm

Hi kelly, great to be talking again.
Greetings Simon!My apologies. Life got busy. You gave me a lot to think about.


Yes, I know that feeling….

“My meditation practice could always be better but I’m always drawn back in when I feel my self slipping back into mind chatter.I usually do 20 minutes of being present and not attaching and following thoughts”


Sounds similar to my practice, just sitting and settling down.

“I know there are many questions you’ve asked of me but as I have reread your post many times I’m seeing most of your questions and advice made me believe less in my thoughts that have been preventing me of understanding.

How are you finding this believing less in thoughts? Good points, bad points?


I had something happen in my meditation that’s made a difference. I LOOKED!!to see if there was a me and I did not find me!!!.

Great, looking is the key. Can you describe a little about the looking process please?
Same result as I had when I did this. Any reactions to not finding a me?


All I found was an AWARENESS that seemed to be more real then a person I’ve always thought was a ME.””I know I am not my body,thoughts,feelings and EXPERIENCES.


Brilliant. It can be hard to leave behind experiences and memories as not defining you. For many people these do. But how can they, if only the present exists, each moment is a new moment. Can you try and describe this awareness, what properties does it have? Is it changed or affected by thoughts or experiences?



You showed me and uncovered a lot



I am very happy, this is what I was hoping to achieve. You ust have been ready to learn.



.Ive felt like since I’m the EXPERIENCER then there must an I.

.I don’t have the head knowledge to explain any of this to someone but then again do I need to.



If you understand it then our main aim might have been met and there is no need to explain it. How does that feel to you?

I personally had a motivation to be able to explain it but that was some months after I experienced it, I wanted to show others as I thought it might help them. We can do some more exercises looking into this idea of “experiencer”. Sometimes just doing the exercises helps us see how they work and that helps explaining what they show.

For now I would like you to try some simple physical excercises and report back to me please.

Please place both hands on a table palm down. After a minute one hand must be raised in the air above your head whilst the other one will remain where it is. Notice where the 'choice' is made (between hands) Can the very point of choice be detected, the exact moment? Does something choose? Noticing what happens, what makes the one hand go up in the air?

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Re: No religion know God

Postby mohawk » Fri Jan 17, 2020 1:32 pm

Greetings Simone!,
Still have many questions with little time.Will try to reach out to you over weekend.
“Though I have seen no me Its hard NOT to care about some of the human things that happen to us..So does this awareness we are really care?or is it’s job just to be aware?Its easy to see its beauty but does it care about the actor on stage so to speak?”

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Sunyata67
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Re: No religion know God

Postby Sunyata67 » Fri Jan 17, 2020 6:42 pm

Hi Kelly

There is no rush, take all the time you need. Looking forward to your questions.

Re
"All I found was an AWARENESS that seemed to be more real then a person I’ve always thought was a ME.””I know I am not my body,thoughts,feelings and EXPERIENCES."

Brilliant. It can be hard to leave behind experiences and memories as not defining you. For many people these do. But how can they, if only the present exists, each moment is a new moment. Can you try and describe this awareness, what properties does it have? Is it changed or affected by thoughts or experiences?


Ive felt like since I’m the EXPERIENCER then there must an I.

.I don’t have the head knowledge to explain any of this to someone but then again do I need to.


If you understand it then our main aim might have been met and there is no need to explain it. How does that feel to you?

I personally had a motivation to be able to explain it but that was some months after I experienced it, I wanted to show others as I thought it might help them. We can do some more exercises looking into this idea of “experiencer”. Sometimes just doing the exercises helps us see how they work and that helps explaining what they show.


Can we come back to these questions please from an earlier post:



How is awareness (I) separated from what is experienced (life)?
Is there an edge or line to be found between the “you” and sensations or thoughts, ie LIFE?


Re:

“Though I have seen no me Its hard NOT to care about some of the human things that happen to us..So does this awareness we are really care?or is it’s job just to be aware?Its easy to see its beauty but does it care about the actor on stage so to speak?”

This is a great question, why dont you look yourself and ask it. Go into your mediation and when you are in calm awareness with no thought just gently let this question hang there "does awareness care". Dont try and answer straight away with thoughts, just hold the question and see what arises. If nothing arises that fine to, just stay with it (often an answer comes after). Also have a think about "does this awareness we are". See exercise below, but also ask logically how is an "I" related to awareness, then how is a "we" (all sentient beings) related to awareness.

I have an answer as I have done this, but it may not be the same as yours.

I think soon we will look into this awareness and see what properties and boundaries it might have. For now I have a question, try and get an answer it using the method above. " How is my awareness different from any other aware beings awareness?"

With much love

Simon

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mohawk
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Re: No religion know God

Postby mohawk » Mon Jan 20, 2020 2:25 am

Hello Again Simon,Ive been thinking and writing down my answers to these questions all weekend.I hope you find my answers relevant to our search.The more I learn the more I realize there’s so much more.Thank you for taking the time with me.I see this was a big commitment from both of us....1)Does it have to exclude Life is here for us.
“I guess the thought shows me life doesn’t need us or our help to exist.Life doesn’t need our rules..A happier thought belief would be that it cares but I don’t see the connection yet.”

2)Could it be both at the same time.
“I guess but I don’t understand its purpose if the me doesn’t exist”

3)What are the differences between life and us.”I don’t feel like we have a say.Its like it or lump it and I hope that’s not true.Its just a thought and feeling I guess”

4)Is there separation between a sensation and the experience of it.”Not sure I understand question”

5)How am I finding this believing less in thought good points bad points.”Love this question.It causes me to turn to my awareness and ask it if what I’m thinking is truth.Gives me more of a desire to meditate.Theres not much bad about it.Thanks for the question”

6)Can you describe this awareness,what properties does it have?is it changed or affected by thought or experiences.”No,Its not changed by thought.Seems to either tell you or makes you be at peace without giving the answer.(I do wish I understood my awareness more than who I’ve always thought I was).”Properties?Im unable to answer at this time.”

7)How is awareness (I)separated from what is experienced(life).”It’s as if it stands in the shadows and awaits my recognition.I seem to engage in the experience separately.Though I would wish to be mor connected to my awareness”

8)Is there an edge or line to be found between the “you”and sensations or thoughts ie life?”Again I can’t answer that question at this time because I don’t find the relation between them”

9)How is an (I)related to awareness.How is a we (all sentient beings)related to awareness.”Wow another good question and not enough time to answer in a sentence.It makes me wonder if that’s why we are here!.Kinda the purpose of life.Who ever will lose themselves will find themselves...I could be way off track from what your wanting me to see”


10)How is my awareness different from any other aware beings awareness?”I have pondered this question and my only guess would be its all the same once you’ve discovered it”


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