I need help to see again and again.

This is a read-only part of the forum. All threads where seeing happens are stored here and come from this forum, the Facebook guiding area and various LU blogs. The complete list, sorted by guide, contains all links. The archives include threads of those that came to LU already seeing as well.
User avatar
JonathanR
Posts: 3947
Joined: Sat Mar 01, 2014 10:14 pm

Re: I need help to see again and again.

Postby JonathanR » Fri Jan 17, 2020 12:41 am

Beautiful Gemma,

That's really lovely! I'm so pleased.

If you like now I could ask you some final questions? If you'd be interested, for one thing, this could lead to access to our LU Facebook groups and the LU community.?

You're so lucky to have each other, by the way :-)

Love

Jon

User avatar
GemmaSue
Posts: 29
Joined: Fri Nov 29, 2019 11:20 am

Re: I need help to see again and again.

Postby GemmaSue » Fri Jan 17, 2020 1:32 am

You are beautiful Jon,

Yeah sure, let's do the questions.

Love
Gemma

User avatar
JonathanR
Posts: 3947
Joined: Sat Mar 01, 2014 10:14 pm

Re: I need help to see again and again.

Postby JonathanR » Sun Jan 19, 2020 9:48 am

Hi Gemma

OK great! Sorry for a little delay in replying...

Here are the six questions.

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was
there ever?
2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from
your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.
3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue?
Please report from the past few days.
4) What was the last bit that pushed you over; made you look?
5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen?
How does it work? What are you responsible for? Give a few examples from experience.
6) Anything to add?

All best :-)

Jon

User avatar
GemmaSue
Posts: 29
Joined: Fri Nov 29, 2019 11:20 am

Re: I need help to see again and again.

Postby GemmaSue » Thu Jan 23, 2020 11:37 am

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was
there ever?
2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from
your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.
3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue?
Please report from the past few days.
4) What was the last bit that pushed you over; made you look?
5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen?
How does it work? What are you responsible for? Give a few examples from experience.
6) Anything to add?
1) I can't seem to find one Jon

2) The separation of self in my experience begins when I identify with the thoughts, sensations and feelings that arrise within the space.

3) It feels expansive to have an awareness of this, it also feels awesome to see that there is no perfecting to be done of how quickly seeing the illusion occours. There is nobody to do the perfecting!

4) that last bit I was talking about. Seeing this was my liberation.

5) so there is no free will to when or how quickly I see through illusion because there is noone doing or choosing, there is just an awareness of the iccoyrinf which is arising in the space.

6) yeah, sure. This has been pretty cool!

Love,
Gemma

User avatar
JonathanR
Posts: 3947
Joined: Sat Mar 01, 2014 10:14 pm

Re: I need help to see again and again.

Postby JonathanR » Fri Jan 24, 2020 10:17 am

Hi Gemma

Thank you very much for those answers.

I'm just going to ask fellow guides to look at our conversation. They might or might not have further questions. I will write again in the next couple of days.

Love

Jon

User avatar
JonathanR
Posts: 3947
Joined: Sat Mar 01, 2014 10:14 pm

Re: I need help to see again and again.

Postby JonathanR » Sat Jan 25, 2020 9:31 pm

Hi Gemma

You mentioned the feeling of expansiveness of having an awareness.

One of the guides asks:

"please describe what your experience of awareness is?"

Thanks.

Jon

User avatar
JonathanR
Posts: 3947
Joined: Sat Mar 01, 2014 10:14 pm

Re: I need help to see again and again.

Postby JonathanR » Thu Jan 30, 2020 12:23 am

Hi Gemma,

I thought I'd explain a little more.

When we guides feel that a guiding conversation (such as ours) is completed successfully, we usually ask the six questions. Then we ask the other guides to take a look to check that our pointing has been up to scratch. Its a good system and quite often there will be one or two questions. These are never 'trick questions' or in any way suggestive that something is 'wrong'. (you can't get this 'wrong'). But it's really worth answering these questions. I have seen many people experience an even clearer 'seeing' because we bother to do it this way.

Hope you feel like pushing it the extra distance? :-)

Jon ♡

User avatar
GemmaSue
Posts: 29
Joined: Fri Nov 29, 2019 11:20 am

Re: I need help to see again and again.

Postby GemmaSue » Thu Jan 30, 2020 11:55 am

Hi Jon,

I'm only just seeing this message now and feeling a little confused.

I'm not sure if this is an old message or a new one. I have sent a reply to the final questions.

Was this message that I'm replying to sent after I answered the final questions? Did you receive my email with my final answers?

A little confused,
Gemma

User avatar
GemmaSue
Posts: 29
Joined: Fri Nov 29, 2019 11:20 am

Re: I need help to see again and again.

Postby GemmaSue » Thu Jan 30, 2020 12:06 pm

Hi Jon,

Okay I'm up to speed now, I just figured out that you have sent further messages.

My experience of awareness is witnessing what arrises and being aware that it does so seemingly from nowhere. I witness thought arising and am awear of it rather than just experiencing it. I am also aware of the witness itself witnessing what arrises and again and again.

Thanks
Gemma

User avatar
JonathanR
Posts: 3947
Joined: Sat Mar 01, 2014 10:14 pm

Re: I need help to see again and again.

Postby JonathanR » Thu Jan 30, 2020 10:12 pm

Hi Gemma,

Glad that you worked out what we were asking. Thanks for responding.
. My experience of awareness is witnessing what arrises and being aware that it does so seemingly from nowhere
That's great.
. . I witness thought arising and am awear of it rather than just experiencing it.
I have to ask you what is the difference between 'being aware of thought arising' and 'experiencing it'?

Put another way, can you find a difference or separation between these two?
. I am also aware of the witness itself , witnessing what arrises and again and again.
What 'I' is aware?

Is a 'the witness' found in experience?

Take your time and let me know?

Thanks Gemma

Jon ♡

User avatar
GemmaSue
Posts: 29
Joined: Fri Nov 29, 2019 11:20 am

Re: I need help to see again and again.

Postby GemmaSue » Sun Feb 02, 2020 3:10 pm

I have to ask you what is the difference between 'being aware of thought arising' and 'experiencing it'?
It's the difference between being unaware of the illusion and seeing through the illusion.
Is a 'the witness' found in experience?
The witness is not found in experience there is only awearness of the witness and the experience, they are not seperate they are one.

Thanks
Gemma

P. S I'm not receiving email notifications of your response, I'm not sure why. I'll try to remember to keep checking. I'm in the middle of moving house so I feel a bit frazzled.

User avatar
JonathanR
Posts: 3947
Joined: Sat Mar 01, 2014 10:14 pm

Re: I need help to see again and again.

Postby JonathanR » Sun Feb 02, 2020 8:38 pm

Hi Gemma

I have noticed other people complaining that they haven't received email notifications either. I'll have to make some inquiries.

Thanks for answering my questions. Moving house can be very frazzling! I know.
. I have to ask you what is the difference between 'being aware of thought arising' and 'experiencing it'?
It's the difference between being unaware of the illusion and seeing through the illusion.
Just so that I can feel I have done my job properly :-)...

So when you say 'experiencing it' you are suggesting experiencing unawareness of the illusion?

I agree that identification with an imagined self can happen, so that it is as if 'someone ', 'me', is somehow 'going through unawareness'.

At any stage though, is there ever a one that goes through unawareness?

Could there be?

Also, is there a one that sees through the illusion?

Thanks you. When you have a moment...

Jon ♡

User avatar
GemmaSue
Posts: 29
Joined: Fri Nov 29, 2019 11:20 am

Re: I need help to see again and again.

Postby GemmaSue » Sun Feb 02, 2020 11:25 pm

Hi Jon,

No there is no one who goes through unawareness and there is noone who sees through the illusion. There is only an awareness of awareness itsself. All I have to go on is awareness.

I use the words I choose to break down examples so I can communicate my processes. But it all comes back to awearnes in the end regardless of the endless metaphors and explanations.

Love
Grmma

User avatar
GemmaSue
Posts: 29
Joined: Fri Nov 29, 2019 11:20 am

Re: I need help to see again and again.

Postby GemmaSue » Wed Feb 05, 2020 9:22 pm

Hi Jon,

I've not received a response. If you did respond, can you resend?

Many thanks
Gemma

User avatar
JonathanR
Posts: 3947
Joined: Sat Mar 01, 2014 10:14 pm

Re: I need help to see again and again.

Postby JonathanR » Wed Feb 05, 2020 11:13 pm

Hi Gemma,

My apologies, for the delay responding.

I'm going to send you a private message.

Thanks so much for your final response which is wonderful. . I have no further questions for you and neither have the other guides.

I expect you notice that your name has changed from green to blue?

Our conversation here is complete :-) It has been a pleasure working with you.

However if you would like to talk further and have anything else you'd like to look at we can do that here in the Archive section?

Very best wishes

Jon


Return to “ARCHIVES”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 0 guests