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Anastacia42
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Re: Registration

Postby Anastacia42 » Fri Jan 31, 2020 4:16 am

It *is* interesting, isn't it?

Sorry for the long delay. I shouldn't open these until I'm ready to reply, because then there's nothing to remind me!.

This is similar...

Raising Hand Exercise

1. Place both hands on a table in front of you, palms down.

2. When you have done that, rest for a moment and then raise one hand in the air but not
the other.

Don't go to thoughts, examine your direct experience.

Do this as many times as you like, and each time inquire:

What is it exactly that is choosing which hand to raise?

Can you find a separate individual or anything that is doing the choosing?

What is it that is controlling the hand?

Can a ‘controller’ of any description be located?

Can anything be found that makes the hand move?

How is the decision made?


Have fun!

Loving,
~ Stacy

"Not to know there is an alternative to being lost
in thought is to be a kind of prisoner."

~ Sam Harris

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SimonR
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Re: Registration

Postby SimonR » Sat Feb 01, 2020 10:29 am

Hi Stacy

No problem

What is it exactly that is choosing which hand to raise?
Nothing, just happens
Can you find a separate individual or anything that is doing the choosing?
No, just happening within a field of awareness
What is it that is controlling the hand?

Just the hand moving
Can a ‘controller’ of any description be located?
No controller or conscious decision maker.

]
Can anything be found that makes the hand move?


No but there is a moving of attention toward sensation of moving

How is the decision made

Randomly - thought comes after

Love

Simon

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Anastacia42
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Re: Registration

Postby Anastacia42 » Sat Feb 01, 2020 1:27 pm

Thank you, Simon, good morning
Can anything be found that makes the hand move?

No but there is a moving of attention toward sensation of moving
"Awareness" Is a term that is used. "Consciousness" could also be used, but where I live that gets used a lot in marketing. For example, there's a brand of coffee called Conscious Coffee. So I don't use that one as much. I mentioned this back on about January 5th.

But does that mean that there is a separate self?

This exercise may help make this clearer.

Mind labelling experience

Here is an exercise which examines the way in which the mind labels experience - it takes about 20 minutes and you will need a pen a paper.

This exercise is broken into 10 minute lots. For each 10 minute period pay attention to any bodily sensation ie is there any tightening, or any relaxing?

For the first ten minutes write down what you are experiencing right now using the word “I”. For example: I am sitting on a chair, I am hearing a clock ticking, I am looking at a computer screen, I am feeling hungry. Get right to the point, no past or future fantasy, just a plain description of your experience right here and now.

Then for the next ten minutes continue writing down what you are experiencing but this time without using the word “I”. Just describe the experience as it is happening using verbs. For example: sitting on a chair, typing, breathing, blinking, hearing the clock. (Again, watch what is happening in the body.)

At the end of the twenty minutes compare the two ways in which the experience was labelled and answer the following four questions:

1. Is one truer than the other, and If so, which one?

2. What is here without labels?

3. Do labels affect the experience or just describe it?

4. Did you notice any differences in the body?

Let me know how it goes and what you notice.

Loving,
~ Stacy

"Not to know there is an alternative to being lost
in thought is to be a kind of prisoner."

~ Sam Harris

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SimonR
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Re: Registration

Postby SimonR » Sun Feb 02, 2020 10:50 am

Hi Stacy
1. Is one truer than the other, and If so, which one?
Yes, the second one. There is more of a direct experience of what's going on without a filter of 'I'
2. What is here without labels?
Just direct experience- awareness

3. Do labels affect the experience or just describe it?
they describe it- they bring a 'me' into the experience and a sort of detachment- 'I' and 'doing'
4. Did you notice any differences in the body?
yes, definitely. when 'i' is labelled there is a tension of sorts. When not, a sort of lightness or even cleanness
Let me know how it goes and what you notice
Good exercise- there were certainly differences between the two experiences

love

simon

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Anastacia42
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Re: Registration

Postby Anastacia42 » Sun Feb 02, 2020 3:44 pm

Good morning, Simon,

It is gratifying to read your replies to that exercise; one or more questions usually stumps people, but you are seeing clearly. It's one of my favorites, because it can highlight how there is tension in holding onto the idea of a self. "If it hurts, you're lying," says Byron Katie, and she's right. If folks knew that one thing, it could guide us through any question or challenge we ever face.

It is also very good that you were attentive to the shift in body Sensation with and without the label "I." Keep paying attention to that. It is one of our biggest clues as to what is AE and what is made up.

I went back just now and read your initial post. I, also, came here looking for like-minded community and wanting to share this inner peace with others. You mention that you have had brief experience of non-self. Your understandings are pretty accurate. You are correct that nothing is missing and that "it" is only covered by layers of thinking. That is my experience, as well.

These exercises can point us into SEEING no self, and eventually, that will probably happen as we go through them. However, it does ebb and flow, sometimes for years, and it may never be your continuous day-to-day experience, although it might, and it will almost certainly increase the more you practice these exercises.

Let me ask you, did the knowing of no self ever go away once you "tasted it" as you said? It may not feel as present as it did at that time, but can you really un-know it?

So, let's keep doing some exercises, about different aspects of experience. Any one of these can show you non self again. Just keep LOOKING. Don't worry when I don't have much to say about your replies. There isn't much to say when you are getting it. I mostly just guide you in places that need a little help. Most of this will probably be obvious to you, but remember, it's the LOOKING that matters and you can repeat the exercises as often as you like.


Label-Reality Correlation

There is a belief that labels have a one-to-one correspondence with ‘reality’. But there isn’t. Just like it is a generally accepted belief that labels like ‘good’ and ‘bad’ are inherent characteristics of ‘things’. But actually, they are not.

When you look at the word label "GREEN’, what is the actual experience?

Is the colour red ‘experienced’, or is the colour green ‘experienced’ as the label suggests?

Does the label ‘GREEN’ have a one-to-one correspondence with ‘reality’? Or does the
label suggest something else other than what is here now (red colour)?

Is 'green' associated in any way with the experience of the colour red; or is green just a label that overlays the actual experience of red?

If the label 'GREEN’ is replaced with the label ‘GOOD’ or ‘BAD’, is the redness affected in any way as the labels suggests? Does redness become ‘good’ or ‘bad’, or do the labels have no affect whatsoever on reality?

Loving (and now you know why this is my preferred form of "love,"),
~ Stacy

"Not to know there is an alternative to being lost
in thought is to be a kind of prisoner."

~ Sam Harris

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SimonR
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Re: Registration

Postby SimonR » Tue Feb 04, 2020 9:22 am

Dear Stacy

Many thanks for you encouraging message and continued guidance
Let me ask you, did the knowing of no self ever go away once you "tasted it" as you said? It may not feel as present as it did at that time, but can you really un-know it?
No, it didn’t go away as such . It is still here , almost like a fog or clouds moving over it- sometimes hazy, sometimes clearer but always ’here’. More of a fabric/canvas than anything underlying or separate . I think it gives a certain confidence and certainly the inspiration to continue ‘searching’ also
I will continue with the green/red exercise and report back

Love

Simon

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SimonR
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Re: Registration

Postby SimonR » Tue Feb 04, 2020 10:37 am

Hi Stacy

Further to my post an hour or two ago...(just in case you haven’t see it , I have sent two)
When you look at the word label "GREEN’, what is the actual experience?

Just experience of shapes, shades etc

Is the colour red ‘experienced’, or is the colour green ‘experienced’ as the label suggests?
No, as above . The labels superimpose themselves on the experience
Does the label ‘GREEN’ have a one-to-one correspondence with ‘reality’? Or does the
label suggest something else other than what is here now (red colour)?
No and no
Is 'green' associated in any way with the experience of the colour red; or is green just a label that overlays the actual experience of red?
Just a label - could say anything really is ‘red’ , ‘bad’ , ‘unicorn ‘- it wouldn’t change experience

I
f the label 'GREEN’ is replaced with the label ‘GOOD’ or ‘BAD’, is the redness affected in any way as the labels suggests? Does redness become ‘good’ or ‘bad’, or do the labels have no affect whatsoever on reality?
No - same as noted above . Doesn’t change experience . Experience is just as it is

Loving
’ love implies separation or an object? - loving is just experience , timeless etc

Loving

Simon

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Anastacia42
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Re: Registration

Postby Anastacia42 » Tue Feb 04, 2020 3:50 pm

Good morning! (Colorado time)

Yes, you are again seeing clearly.
Loving
’ love implies separation or an object? - loving is just experience , timeless etc
Exactly.

There is a follow-up exercise to the green/red one.

Friend/Stranger

Bring up a thought about a character labelled "friend".

Then bring up a thought about a character labelled "stranger".

Compare these thoughts.

Is there a difference in these thoughts?

Is there a true difference or is it just different content?

Now, bring up a thought about a character labelled "friend".

After that, look at a thought about the character labelled "me”.

Is there a difference?

Is there anything special about thoughts with the content "me-character"


I imagine that is going to be simple for you, so I am posting 2 exercises. But don't let intellectual knowledge substitute for the experience of SEEING. Remember Colored Socks.


Fruit Exercise

Have a piece of fruit handy, or something that you like to eat.

For the first couple of minutes imagine you are eating the fruit.....feel the sensations of chewing, the taste, the texture, the fragrance, hear the crunching sound that the chewing makes. Really enjoy the imaginary piece of fruit as much as you can.

Then for the next couple of minutes actually bite the fruit and see the difference.

Experience the fruit with curiosity and dive into the sensations of chewing, swallowing, the sounds and the taste. Really enjoy the experience of actually eating the piece of fruit.

Then for another minute or so describe the taste and smell in as much detail as possible.

Write about it here. What was the experience like?

After you have done this, tell me what you noticed when you compared these three experiences:

1. Imaginary fruit

2. Real fruit

3. Description

Please write about each separately and then compare them.


Loving,
~ Stacy

"Not to know there is an alternative to being lost
in thought is to be a kind of prisoner."

~ Sam Harris

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SimonR
Posts: 49
Joined: Wed Nov 20, 2019 1:40 am

Re: Registration

Postby SimonR » Thu Feb 06, 2020 12:36 pm

Compare these thoughts.
Is there a difference in these thoughts?
no not really

I
s there a true difference or is it just different content?
different content- labels
Now, bring up a thought about a character labelled "friend"

After that, look at a thought about the character labelled "me”

Is there a difference?
No
s there anything special about thoughts with the content "me-character"
No, nothing special

Loving,

Simon

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SimonR
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Re: Registration

Postby SimonR » Thu Feb 06, 2020 12:51 pm

Hi Stacy
Write about it here. What was the experience like?

After you have done this, tell me what you noticed when you compared these three experiences:

1. Imaginary fruit
Thought is telling me the taste, smell, texture etc. Some memory of what this fruit (satsuma) 'should' taste like. Nothing from experience, only from thought
2. Real fruit
Cold, sharp and tangy, soft, different textures -mushy and stringy, floral smell. Enjoyment of fruit. An immediacy of eating this. A sense of just experiencing this now (ie no past memories, no particular thoughts, except the use of words)
3. Description
pleasant and refreshing, soft. Memory of placing fruit in mouth, chewing etc.


Please write about each separately and then compare them.
With 2 (real fruit) More vibrant, more experiential. Things experienced more acutely . Imaginary fruit relied on thought and memory- missed things out that only came through experience (ie coldness of fruit and tanginess). 3 (description) was a little hazy- thinking about the experience. Overall 2 (real fruit) was just 'pure' experience- a sense of the nowness of eating the fruit. it was more passive and sensitive then 1 and 3 (which involved active thought). There was also less of a sense of 'I' eating fruit, more a case of just the sensation/experience of the eating.

Loving,

Simon

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Anastacia42
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Re: Registration

Postby Anastacia42 » Fri Feb 07, 2020 2:06 am

Hi

Yes, you've got it.

Obviously, the analogy is that actually SEEING no separate self is as different from description & imagination as eating an actual apple is from describing & imagining. When that happens, you will know it. It will be unmistakable.

Let's move on.

Drink Exercise

The aim of the following exercise is to discover whether the function of choice can really be found or confirmed in actual experience. The idea of making ‘choices‘ is a very clear example of a function that we wrongly identify as the basis of our identity.

Here's what’s needed - a chair, a table and two different drinks. Any two drinks you like are okay for this: coffee, tea, milk, water, juices, smoothies, beer, wine, etc.
Preparation - Place the two drinks side by side on the table in front of you, sit comfortably on the chair and mentally label them as drink A and drink B.

Experiment - Finding the function of choice

Sit for a few moments, take a few relaxed breaths and let the dust settle. When you feel ready:

1. Look at drink A and at drink B. Think about their respective qualities, the things you like about them, compare and weigh the pros and cons of each. See if a preference is manifesting for one or the other.

2. Count to 5.

3. Choose one of the drinks. Pick it up and take a sip.

Questions:

Remember that we’re looking for some kind of function, a something, an ‘I’ which is doing the ‘choosing’.

In step 1 when thinking about their respective qualities, did you ‘choose’ the qualities? Or did they kind of appear by themselves? If some preferences manifested, did you ‘choose’ these preferences? Or did they just pop up by themselves?

In step 2 when you counted to 5, if the preferences took the back seat while the numbers took the front seat, did you ‘choose’ this sequence of event? Did you ‘choose’ to shut down the preferences to give way to the counting?

Did you directly experience a mental function or faculty doing the ‘choosing’? Have you seen this function in action?

Remember to LOOK, not think.



Loving
~ Stacy

"Not to know there is an alternative to being lost
in thought is to be a kind of prisoner."

~ Sam Harris

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SimonR
Posts: 49
Joined: Wed Nov 20, 2019 1:40 am

Re: Registration

Postby SimonR » Sat Feb 08, 2020 3:47 pm

Hi Stacy
In step 1 when thinking about their respective qualities, did you ‘choose’ the qualities? Or did they kind of appear by themselves? If some preferences manifested, did you ‘choose’ these preferences? Or did they just pop up by themselves
?

Just popped up

I
n step 2 when you counted to 5, if the preferences took the back seat while the numbers took the front seat, did you ‘choose’ this sequence of event? Did you ‘choose’ to shut down the preferences to give way to the counting?
no
Did you directly experience a mental function or faculty doing the ‘choosing’? Have you seen this function in action?
Not really, it just seemed to happen

loving,
Simon

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Anastacia42
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Re: Registration

Postby Anastacia42 » Sun Feb 09, 2020 8:29 pm

Hi Simon,

All true.

By the way, have you read "Gateless Gatecrashers," available to download from this site free under Books, above? Or "Liberation Unleashed," available on Amazon?


Finding the Gap

This exercise has a dual purpose. Firstly, to become aware of each and every though as they appear. Secondly, the careful looking for the gap is an example of how carefully to look when looking for the ‘separate self’.

Here is a step-by-step description of how to look at thoughts. First thing is to sit for at least 10-15 minutes quietly somewhere, several times throughout your day. Close your eyes and just notice thoughts. Don’t engage with any thought, just notice them.

1. Notice the current thought that is present.

Like when you sit observing the body, a thought might arise “this is my feet” or “here is a pain” or “my breathing is too quick” or “I am bored with this exercise” or “I have better things to do” or any sorts of thoughts.

2. This thought will pass and another thought will come. So just observe this thought passing.

3. Then wait for the next thought to come.

4. When the next thought is present, just notice it, and see how it passes.

5. Then wait for the next thought to come.

6. Repeat #4 and #5 many-many times.

Between the 2 thoughts there is a gap. It can be very short or subtle, just a second or a few seconds before the next thought come in.

This is how to look at thoughts:

Looking how they come and go, and
Observing the short gap between them.
Noticing how the current thought is passing.
And waiting for the next thought to come.

Please do the following exercise:

Throughout your waking day, try to observe the gap between thoughts as often as possible. It can be done by noticing that ‘thinking’ is happening right now, then stop and just simply wait for the next thought to come. In the ‘waiting’ there is a gap between two thoughts.

Let me know how it goes.

Loving,
~ Stacy

"Not to know there is an alternative to being lost
in thought is to be a kind of prisoner."

~ Sam Harris

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SimonR
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Re: Registration

Postby SimonR » Tue Feb 11, 2020 8:20 pm

Dear Stacy
Let me know how it goes.
Certainly noticing a gap between ebb and flow of thought.
However, there is a sort of presence in the noticing of this (ie a sort of recognition of ‘this is the gap’) which is interesting . I would like to continue with this for a bit

On another note, I am off to India tomorrow for 10 days. I would like to continue with the regular communication, so I will endeavour to post regularly WiFi etc permitting !
I am taking the liberation unleashed book with me, to answer your question

Loving,

Simon

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Anastacia42
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Re: Registration

Postby Anastacia42 » Wed Feb 12, 2020 2:29 am

Hi!

Sounds great.

Do continue.

There IS Awareness. But does that mean there is a separate thing called, "self?"

Reading LU and Gateless Gatecrashers can be very helpful.

Loving,
~ Stacy

"Not to know there is an alternative to being lost
in thought is to be a kind of prisoner."

~ Sam Harris


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