Seeking I guess, always seeking.

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JonathanR
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Re: Seeking I guess, always seeking.

Postby JonathanR » Thu Feb 27, 2020 9:35 am

Hi Liam

Thanks for telling me how it's going for you.
. As always I can never find this entity. but it's more clear to me from here that there's areas I'm not fully looking into and they do have to do with control. I'm maybe being a little hypocritical in that there's a an interest in investigating it but also hesitation in doing so. After all when I say there's a lot of weight being put on this "controller" idea, there's reason for doing so. It's a defense, a way to find a sort of hope in tough times. Where I can tell myself if "I" do the right thing in the right way I'll be able to defend against pain and suffering.
It's good to notice that you haven't been fully looking into these things.
. So yes, definitely there's some anxiety and hesitation going on.
It's very good to acknowledge this. And there are easy things we can do to calm this, if necessary.

My impression is that you have already begun to look more deeply? So bravo! But please keep aware of any anxiety or hesitation when it appears, if it seems to affect willingness to look, and let me know?
. Sensible thing would be to look, wouldn't be able to relax without making sure to find out. That's kinda what has led me to this really.
Yes, of course. And it's relaxing that's necessary sometimes in order to simply look. Something feels threatened, there's an impulse to protect. This defense instinct is very loyal, motivated by love/fear.

The confusion is that nobody is actually in danger. In fact, there never was a' self' that could be 'harmed'. It's a ridiculous analogy perhaps but it's a bit like the loyal doggie that attacks the hoover. It's not necessary. The hoover isn't being used to kill someone.

Try thanking the anxiety for its loyal protection, that it has done a wonderful job all these years but it can relax now because nobody is in danger. See if that helps?
. Attempts to look are triggering those moments of understanding more frequently and looking at them I'm seeing the sudden reaction that takes place after where the old assumed understanding is quickly put in, but I'm seeing it happen now and taking the opportunities to notice it every time and notice the reactions around it.
Very good. Excellent work Liam.
This is all that's necessary really.

Please let me know how it goes?

Alll the best

Jon

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Oneironaut
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Re: Seeking I guess, always seeking.

Postby Oneironaut » Sat Feb 29, 2020 4:55 pm

Hi Jon.

The past few days have been less eventful, it felt as though I was starting to make some real progress the other day, but then life continued to life and my focus has shifted to other concerns. So not much has changed since my last post. It's almost as if one of the methods of this hesitant side of me is to simply withdraw enthusiasm and I find myself feeling more and more preoccupied with other things in my life.

So I'm just sort of stuck in a stalemate with myself and having a hard time getting things moving again. Just wanted to update you.

Thanks Liam

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Oneironaut
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Re: Seeking I guess, always seeking.

Postby Oneironaut » Sat Feb 29, 2020 6:44 pm

Hi again.

I just wanted to say I appreciate the time you've given me. I'm not a very empathetic person with the particular cold childhood I had. But there's nothing making you give time to this stubborn fool so I just wanted to thank you and let you know it does matter to me even if I don't say it often.
Thanks

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JonathanR
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Re: Seeking I guess, always seeking.

Postby JonathanR » Sun Mar 01, 2020 11:03 pm

Hi Liam,
. The past few days have been less eventful, it felt as though I was starting to make some real progress the other day, but then life continued to life and my focus has shifted to other concerns. So not much has changed since my last post. It's almost as if one of the methods of this hesitant side of me is to simply withdraw enthusiasm and I find myself feeling more and more preoccupied with other things in my life.
OK. Well, as I said before, it's up to you. This kind of thing can happen. It's your inquiry so at some point I guess that you'll probably want to look again?

This withdrawing of enthusiasm could easily be another wave of the anxiety we spoke about so if it continues and if you suspect that it is reluctance let me know? We can work with it, probably very successfully.

All best

Jon

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Oneironaut
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Re: Seeking I guess, always seeking.

Postby Oneironaut » Tue Mar 03, 2020 8:55 pm

Hi Jon
This withdrawing of enthusiasm could easily be another wave of the anxiety we spoke about so if it continues and if you suspect that it is reluctance let me know? We can work with it, probably very successfully.
You're more optimistic than I am about it but yes I have no intention of actually stopping despite any resistance. I find the most difficult part is simply figuring out how to deal with it, path forward is never clear.

Thanks
Lia,

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JonathanR
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Re: Seeking I guess, always seeking.

Postby JonathanR » Wed Mar 04, 2020 1:36 pm

Hi Liam
.
You're more optimistic than I am about it but yes I have no intention of actually stopping despite any resistance. I find the most difficult part is simply figuring out how to deal with it, path forward is never clear.

You don't have to figure anything out. Seriously. It's my job to help you to focus on looking rather than you trying to think your way through. You're not your own in this inquiry.

Your last couple of posts have seemed downbeat, not that I'm asking or expecting you to be upbeat but you had, for a while, started to take a look. And you may not realise how close you were to a breakthrough.

Read your post to me of 27th February. That one was very purposeful.

If anxiety or reluctance seems to be standing in the way, do not try to figure your way through it. Tell me about it and how it manifests?

Thank you

Jon

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Oneironaut
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Re: Seeking I guess, always seeking.

Postby Oneironaut » Thu Mar 05, 2020 4:04 pm

Hi Jon.

Perhaps I am closer than it appears from my perspective. But from here it just seems as though I'm going in circles and that can be demotivating.

I've continued to look as awareness and the 'controller' as best I can as they seem to be where my 'self' evidence is coming from but I'm still getting similar results as I have been for a while. Which is I see no evidence of a controller and yet are not completely convinced that there isn't one. Seems to be the same position I've been in for a while so it doesn't seem as though I've made much progress at all.

Also having moments where I catch experience before 'I' is placed in, which helps confirm that 'I' is just an idea.

Am I perhaps already there but unable to get my mind to sort of 'catch up' with the evidence?
If anxiety or reluctance seems to be standing in the way, do not try to figure your way through it. Tell me about it and how it manifests?
I think there is reluctance yes, in fact perhaps the feeling that there is no progress being made is a manifestation of that.

Thanks

Liam

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JonathanR
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Re: Seeking I guess, always seeking.

Postby JonathanR » Fri Mar 06, 2020 12:24 am

Hi Liam

. Am I perhaps already there but unable to get my mind to sort of 'catch up' with the evidence?
It seems possible. There can be expectations of 'how it should be' or 'how it should feel'. For instance a really classic one that creates much confusion is the idea that there should be no more thoughts. The trouble is its half true but definitely not completely true. But some people are quite hung up on this one idea and when the experience doesn't match the expectation they assume that it's been a failure.

Same with 'suffering'. But really it's not all suffering that suddenly stops. It's that the sufferer is understood to be an idea, not 'a person' not 'a, sufferer'. This can cast 'suffering' in a very different light.
. I think there is reluctance yes, in fact perhaps the feeling that there is no progress being made is a manifestation of that.
I wouldn't be surprised.

Hey. I'm sorry but it's late here and I've just realised how tired I am. I will post again in the morning.

All the best

Jon

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JonathanR
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Re: Seeking I guess, always seeking.

Postby JonathanR » Mon Mar 30, 2020 10:33 am

Liam I am sorry,


You may have been waiting for me to post, again, as I had said that I would?

Here is something take a look at.:
. I've continued to look as awareness and the 'controller' as best I can as they seem to be where my 'self' evidence is coming from but I'm still getting similar results as I have been for a while. Which is I see no evidence of a controller and yet are not completely convinced that there isn't one
Right. OK. And I think you have probably found that to be the case most times?

It's perfectly sound to investigate 'controller' or 'doer'. This is necessary. However don't forget, as you conduct any of these investigations to 'turn round' to take a look to see what it is that is not convinced.

What is that one?

Where is that one?

Where is the 'as awareness' thingy?


Warm regards

Jon


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