A hollow reed

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Alybug
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A hollow reed

Postby Alybug » Thu Nov 14, 2019 3:43 am

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
That rather than a personal self there is an impersonal self or an essence or force that moves through me which is mistaken as "I". I conceptually understand that life is arising and falling and "I" am and expression of this arising and falling away. I understand that this outer drama is simply that, that I am a character in the play.

What are you looking for at LU?
For guidance to experience what I cognitively understand. I have an understanding of no self and non-duality yet I still create suffering for myself for trying to "become" something, to try harder, and find myself attached to my body and situational outcomes.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
I can't say for sure because I've never been guided in such a way. I imagine conversations to help me drop the clutch I have to my self, to challenge my beliefs and to provide pointers to that which can't be named directly. I hope to be brought back to the present moment hopefully with the goal of resting there without struggle.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
I have been a seeker for many years. I don't seek near as much as I understand what I was seeking was the seeker itself, although I still enjoy spiritual teaching and because I still insist on causing myself suffering (what can I say, I'm stubborn). I have practiced yoga and meditation, had many out of body experiences, studied teachers like nisargadatta, maharishi, adyashanti, rupert spira, and sailor bob, eckhart tolle, byron katie and more. I have participated in plant medicine ceremonies.
There could be more, but not sure at the moment.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self?
11

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Vivien
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Re: A hollow reed

Postby Vivien » Fri Nov 22, 2019 7:51 am

Hi,

Welcome to Liberation Unleashed. My name is Vivien and I'd be happy to assist you in your inquiry.

This is YOUR inquiry. I will not be giving you new ideas and beliefs; only assisting you in examining and questioning the ones that you already have. We can have a conversation and see where it takes you.

The purpose of which would be for there to be a realisation, more than just intellectually, that there never was and never will be a separate self, as, such. All our efforts will focus on that.

I will tend to ask many questions. That's my job here. These, will be pointers towards no self. It will be for you to examine your experience to find out what's true or not.

I would like to ask you to write only from your experience as you see it, what feels true, with whole honesty.
And also post daily. If you cannot post, or need more time, please let me know.
Can we agree on these?


Tell me, what are you really looking for. How would your life change if you find that?
What are you hoping for?
What do you want to happen?
What is incomplete right now?


Vivien
"In the seen, there is only the seen. In the heard, there is only the heard. In the sensed, there is only the sensed. You are located neither in this, nor in that, nor in any place between the two." - Buddha
http://fadingveiling.com/

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Alybug
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Re: A hollow reed

Postby Alybug » Fri Nov 22, 2019 1:20 pm

Hi Viven,
Thanks so much for assisting me. You can call me Alison :-). I will be on the road today and will have a chance to sit down tomorrow and focus on your questions. I look forward to the dialog.
Alison

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Re: A hollow reed

Postby Alybug » Sat Nov 23, 2019 1:08 pm

Hi Vivien, I finally have some time to write. I tend not to be super verbose (in most cases) so let me know if you need me expand on my answers.

Tell me, what are you really looking for. How would your life change if you find that?
I am looking to experience my life as my true nature unclouded by my self referential thoughts. My fantasy is that I would create less psychological suffering for myself by always thinking about past and future, value judgments, opinions and experience life simply as it is.

What are you hoping for?
I'm hoping to experience life as it is in the moment. My fantasy is that I would be present to all that is and fully engaged in life instead of a sort of half-living, half-participating.

What do you want to happen?
I want there to be a shift in perception, so that the artificial "I" doesn't appear to be running the show and I'm not trying to be someone I"m not, instead be who I am.

What is incomplete right now?
I have an intellectual understanding of liberation and perhaps glimpses into what it is like to live without the "I", however my "I" is very much alive. I am getting more skilled at interrupting "I" thoughts and they appear to have slowed down, however when I'm going through challenging personal situations, my "I" is lit up like a christmas tree. :-)

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Re: A hollow reed

Postby Vivien » Sun Nov 24, 2019 12:10 am

Hi Alison,

Thank you for getting through these questions about expectations. It’s important, because every expectation is in a way of seeing what is here, right now.

Every expectation is a ‘hindrance’ in realizing what IS. Expectations result in comparison. Comparison between what is happening, and the imagined expectation. Thus what has been seen can be thrown out or ignored, since it doesn’t match the expected outcome.

I go through all the expectations one-by-one. While you read them, please pay attention to what arises ‘in the body’. Is there any resistance to any of it?
I am looking to experience my life as my true nature unclouded by my self referential thoughts
Do you expect that self-referential thoughts should stop? What if they won’t stop? What if seeing through the self is not about not having self-referential thoughts ever again, but rather seeing these thoughts for what they are, only thoughts, nothing serious?

And what if there is no such thing as ‘my true nature’? What if that ‘my true nature’ is just a popular spiritual belief without anything being behind this concept?
I'm hoping to experience life as it is in the moment. My fantasy is that I would be present to all that is and fully engaged in life instead of a sort of half-living, half-participating.
You are talking as if there were two of you-s. One is ‘my true nature or real self’ and the other self, the ‘I’.

So there is an ASSUMPTION that there are 2 selves, one is the separate self, and the other is the real, true Self (with capital S). So when the separate self has seen through, only the true Self remains, what I really am.

But what if there are no 2 selves there? What if there is no ‘true Self’ either? What if both of them are just fictional?
What if after seeing through the self, there will be NOTHING left to identify with and say: “this is what I really am”?
My fantasy is that I would be present to all that is and fully engaged in life instead of a sort of half-living, half-participating.
And what if there is no ‘I’ or self at all, which could be present to life?
What if there is nothing separate from life, which could fully engage in life? What if all there is IS life?
What if there is nothing participating in life? And what if there is nothing living life? Life just is?
My fantasy is that I would create less psychological suffering for myself by always thinking about past and future, value judgments, opinions and experience life simply as it is.
Seeing through the self is not about not having thoughts about past and future, or even judgements or opinions.

Perception changes and with that some reactions may change. The core belief of being a separate self is seen through which also includes others beliefs that support this idea. However, like a rug that is beginning to unravel, there are still many knots (beliefs, patterns) that need undoing. Falling away of conditionings can last at the end of the organism. Continuing to LOOK after the realisation is very much the key.

Seeing through the self is just the BEGINNING, just the first step, and not the end.

Also, physiological problems, traumas, emotional pains don’t dissolve just because of seeing no self. So all the conditioned reactions that stem from them still can arise. However, if someone decides to work on these, it’s usually much easier after seeing no-self.

Happiness or peace is a state, and no states are permanent, they are all subject to change. Seeing through the separate individual is not about not having any ‘bad’ or uncomfortable feelings any more. Rather it’s about seeing that emotions don’t belong to anything. They are free floating without being tied to or anchored to anything.

Many seekers believe that seeing through the separate individual is a completely different state that they are currently having, with some special qualities (happiness, bliss, constant peace or whatever). However, this is not the case. Seeing through the illusion that there is a separate entity (self) is not a state. When it is SEEN it, the knowledge becomes factual. Many seekers have the impression that seeing there is no self is a state to ‘abide in’. It's not.
I want there to be a shift in perception, so that the artificial "I" doesn't appear to be running the show and I'm not trying to be someone I"m not, instead be who I am.
What if there is nothing that can be said ‘this is who I am’?
What if there isn’t another self behind the I-thought?
What if there are no such things as ‘artificial self’ and ‘real self’? What if both of them are just imagined?
I have an intellectual understanding of liberation and perhaps glimpses into what it is like to live without the "I", however my "I" is very much alive. I am getting more skilled at interrupting "I" thoughts and they appear to have slowed down, however when I'm going through challenging personal situations, my "I" is lit up like a christmas tree. :-)
What if the “I” is not something you own?
What if the one who believes that owns the “I” is the SAME “I” which is believed to be owned?
What if owning the “I” is just part of the story of “I”?
What if trying to interrupt the ‘I’ thought is also just part of the story of ‘I’?
I still enjoy spiritual teaching and because I still insist on causing myself suffering (what can I say, I'm stubborn).
What if suffering is not done by you? What if suffering is not done by anything? What if suffering isn’t belonging to anything? What if the one believed to create suffering is itself an illusion?
What if suffering is seemingly created by believing that there is a self/I which could suffer?

Please ponder on these questions to see your expectations from a different perspective. Because what I can say for sure, it won’t be how you imagine it to be. Since it cannot be known in advance. It’s never how one imagines it to be.
So it would be the best, if you could drop all your expectations, and just to be a clean slate.
I have practiced yoga and meditation, had many out of body experiences, studied teachers like nisargadatta, maharishi, adyashanti, rupert spira, and sailor bob, eckhart tolle, byron katie and more. I have participated in plant medicine ceremonies.
For the time our investigation, I would like to ask you to stop reading/listening any teachers, and rather spend your time looking. Also, I would like to ask you to put aside all learned knowledge. You have to see this experientially and not relying on others’ experiences. Can we agree on these?


Before starting, please read my above comments carefully a few more times and tell me what comes up by reading the comments about the expectations.
Is there any resistance to any of it?

Do you feel ready to start the investigation?


Vivien
"In the seen, there is only the seen. In the heard, there is only the heard. In the sensed, there is only the sensed. You are located neither in this, nor in that, nor in any place between the two." - Buddha
http://fadingveiling.com/

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Re: A hollow reed

Postby Alybug » Sun Nov 24, 2019 2:59 pm

Thank you for your response. Yes,I can agree to set ideas and teachings aside.
I've read your comments several times. I feel some resistance coming up, even butterfly like feelings in my stomach, and asking myself "Why am I doing this?" "Why would I do this?" "What am I trying to achieve?" . The idea of nothing feels a little scary and confusing.

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Re: A hollow reed

Postby Vivien » Sun Nov 24, 2019 11:48 pm

Hi Alison,

I would like to ask you to learn to use the quotation function, so our conversation will be easier to read later for both of us.
So here is the link to a video again how to quote:

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=660
I feel some resistance coming up, even butterfly like feelings in my stomach, and asking myself "Why am I doing this?" "Why would I do this?" "What am I trying to achieve?" . The idea of nothing feels a little scary and confusing.
Before starting we have to have a closer look on this resistance and fear. Since fear can prevent you from looking. But actually, fear is nothing more than a protective mechanism, and it does its job well. There is a belief, a story somewhere about pain or negative consequences to seeing the illusion of the self. And the fear tries to protect you from these supposed negative consequences. So let’s find out what this story is about and see if they are real threats or not.

What I’d like you to do is to investigate this fear. Examine it closely. Feel it. Don’t try to fix it or solve it, just sit with it.
Ask the fear as if it were a some kind of entity:

What do you want to protect me from?

What is the ‘negative’ story, what would happen if the illusion of the self is seen through?

Observe what visual thoughts and stories come up ‘justifying’ its right to fear.

If you ignore the stories (thoughts) and visual thoughts what is BEHIND the fear?


Vivien
"In the seen, there is only the seen. In the heard, there is only the heard. In the sensed, there is only the sensed. You are located neither in this, nor in that, nor in any place between the two." - Buddha
http://fadingveiling.com/

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Re: A hollow reed

Postby Alybug » Mon Nov 25, 2019 1:55 pm

What do you want to protect me from?
I suppose there is a feeling of annihilation.
What is the ‘negative’ story, what would happen if the illusion of the self is seen through?
that I will die, or live like some sort of zombie, that I won't care about anything or anyone. That I won't feel love for anything.
Observe what visual thoughts and stories come up ‘justifying’ its right to fear.
That I won't care about anything and live life like a hermit until I die, that people won't matter to me, that I'll be stone cold. There are tears coming through writing this. I'm a sensitive person.
If you ignore the stories (thoughts) and visual thoughts what is BEHIND the fear?
nothing

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Re: A hollow reed

Postby Vivien » Tue Nov 26, 2019 4:51 am

Hi Alison,

I can assure you that NONE of your fears based on reality. NONE of them will happen. There are hundreds of people who have seen through the self illusion with the help of LU, and NONE of them got into those state you are afraid of.

One of your fears is that emotions will be eradicated. Which is simply IMPOSSIBLE. Emotions are part of being human, and it’s not possible not to feel anything and just become a cold hermit. It’s simply not possible.

Actually, quite some people disappointed after seeing through the self, since they expected that the negative emotions will disappear, and they will have only the positive, pleasant emotions. But this not possible either.
That I won't feel love for anything.
This cannot be further from the truth! The reality is just the opposite. Since we often cannot feel love because we are trying to protect the self illusion, so when it’s seen through, the possibility to love increases.
That I won't care about anything and live life like a hermit until I die, that people won't matter to me, that I'll be stone cold. There are tears coming through writing this. I'm a sensitive person.
I hear you.
But where do you get this assumption? What made you think that you will become stone cold?

If it were about not caring about people any more, than what do you think how could we guides help so many people in our spare time, totally free of charge? Do you think that a remote, cold, hermit-like person who doesn’t care about people would freely spend hours each day to help others?

Why would we do it, if not because we care about other and want to help lessening the sufferings of others?


I have more than 15 clients, and I spend about 3 hours or more each day, every day, even on weekends to help others. Why would I do that if I were a lonely cold hermit, not being able to feel love and compassion, a zombie, who didn’t care about anything and anyone anymore?

Can you see that this assumption has nothing to do with reality?
Can you see that this is just a fearful story with images that you’ve created and now you are afraid of your own creation, fantasy?

that I will die, or live like some sort of zombie, that I won't care about anything or anyone.
This assumption could be true only, IF there were a self, a REAL ME in this very moment.
But the me/I/self has NEVER EVER BEEN THERE, it ALWAYS have been just an illusion.

Even in this very moment, although you believe in a separate self, but it is not there in this very moment. You just don’t see it, since you’ve never looked for it. You just believe to be there, but it’s not.

Yes, the self is ALREADY not there, so it’s literally impossible to annihilate it! Can you see this?

How could you become a zombie if there is ALREADY no self?
If seeing no self meant becoming a zombie, then you MUST ALREADY BE A ZOMBIE! Since the self is ALREADY not there! Are you a zombie in this very moment, without any feelings? :)

How could you become unable to feel love, if there is ALREADY no self?
If seeing no self meant losing the ability to feel love and not caring about others, then you MUST ALREADY BE LOVELESS and CARELESS! Since the self is ALREADY not there! Can you see this the falsity of this logic?


There is nothing that could die or cease to exist.
There is no self that could die.
Just because the self is seen through, nothing will die, since there has never been a self there in the first place.
There is no self that could be annihilated or killed.
The only thing that changes is the RECOGNITION that there has never been a self there, it’s always just an imaginary character.
But nothing else will change.
The sense of self will still arise. The illusion of the self will still be there.
So nothing will be lost, only a belief in the self will fall away.

Please read this post several times, and reply to each questions one-by-one.

Vivien
"In the seen, there is only the seen. In the heard, there is only the heard. In the sensed, there is only the sensed. You are located neither in this, nor in that, nor in any place between the two." - Buddha
http://fadingveiling.com/

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Re: A hollow reed

Postby Alybug » Tue Nov 26, 2019 2:54 pm

But where do you get this assumption? What made you think that you will become stone cold?
I suppose I get this assumption after listening to people who have seen through the self. They have said they got there after having no attachments to anything including their children, and now they are indifferent to their children. I hear people say that things don't matter to them, that the horrors of this world simply are what they are and there is total indifference. They say the price of liberation is everything...losing all attachments and not caring about anything.
If it were about not caring about people any more, than what do you think how could we guides help so many people in our spare time, totally free of charge? Do you think that a remote, cold, hermit-like person who doesn’t care about people would freely spend hours each day to help others?
Yes, I see your point.
Why would we do it, if not because we care about other and want to help lessening the sufferings of others?
Yes, I hear you.
Why would I do that if I were a lonely cold hermit, not being able to feel love and compassion, a zombie, who didn’t care about anything and anyone anymore?
Yes, I see that this matters to you and you care about helping others. This is reassuring as I work as a therapist and helping others is something I care deeply about.
Can you see that this assumption has nothing to do with reality?
Yes. I think my confusion is that I have been unsure if my caring, generally loving nature is "real" or part of the story of who I think I should be to be a "good" person. And if I see through the self, this story of me and the character I've tried to create who "is a good person and helps others and cares deeply" will disappear and I'll be left with empty nothingness devoid of anything "Alison". I like myself, especially my emotions and ability to connect deeply with others.
Can you see that this is just a fearful story with images that you’ve created and now you are afraid of your own creation, fantasy?
Yes. I can see the mind making up stories.

Yes, the self is ALREADY not there, so it’s literally impossible to annihilate it! Can you see this?
lol. Yes, this makes sense. You can't destroy something that is not there.
How could you become a zombie if there is ALREADY no self?
Yes, I hear you. This is what it is, awareness is doing "Alison" and how she shows up in the world is how she is. Let's say Alison wants to make a behavior change, who/what is deciding that and making value judgments if she is successfully making those changes?
If seeing no self meant becoming a zombie, then you MUST ALREADY BE A ZOMBIE! Since the self is ALREADY not there! Are you a zombie in this very moment, without any feelings? :)
lol. good point. no I'm not a zombie, but again I question if my "being a caring/loving person" is something I was conditioned to be and I tell myself I should be because it's the "right" way to be.
How could you become unable to feel love, if there is ALREADY no self?
Yes, I hear you. I feel love and I can notice myself feeling love and giving love. I can see my point above is a story about the noticing and giving of love... a "me" story about what is happening. I'm wrapping a doubting story around the giving and receiving of love, a story about "me," a person who grew up without much love and has learned to give and receive love but doubts it because it's a different way of being compared to my history. A story shows up based on the noticing of Alison being different than she was when she was younger. This is clear.
If seeing no self meant losing the ability to feel love and not caring about others, then you MUST ALREADY BE LOVELESS and CARELESS! Since the self is ALREADY not there! Can you see this the falsity of this logic?
Yes, I can.



Can you speak of attachments please and the necessity of dropping all attachments that I've read about? I feel attached to my children. They are important to me. Their welfare, their life, their safety, everything...partly because they are "my" children. I know I don't own them of course but my biological connection makes them more important to me than say a child I've never met in China.

Thank you Vivien :-)

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Re: A hollow reed

Postby Vivien » Wed Nov 27, 2019 2:19 am

Hi Alison,
I suppose I get this assumption after listening to people who have seen through the self. They have said they got there after having no attachments to anything including their children, and now they are indifferent to their children. I hear people say that things don't matter to them, that the horrors of this world simply are what they are and there is total indifference. They say the price of liberation is everything...losing all attachments and not caring about anything.
I don’t know who said that, but it’s simply not true. What you are talking about would be to stop being human. It’s not possible. But seen through the self won’t eradicate your humanness. Quite the opposite.

And the thing is that there are all sorts of self-proclaimed gurus out there, spirituality has become a business for some. And many people are simply not honest when they describe their everyday life. Since they believe that they have to hold up a certain image of themselves. And there are some others, who are simply deluding themselves with all sorts of concepts, that there is no me here, so there is no point in caring about the world, or others. They are just simply trying to escape their own feelings.
Yes, I see that this matters to you and you care about helping others. This is reassuring as I work as a therapist and helping others is something I care deeply about.
Your care for other won’t stop. I’m sure about that. If anything, your care will be stronger, the feeling of need to help out of compassion can grow. Since you will be able to see more and more as you yourself progress on this path, that suffering is stemming form unquestioned thoughts and beliefs.
Yes. I think my confusion is that I have been unsure if my caring, generally loving nature is "real" or part of the story of who I think I should be to be a "good" person. And if I see through the self, this story of me and the character I've tried to create who "is a good person and helps others and cares deeply" will disappear and I'll be left with empty nothingness devoid of anything "Alison". I like myself, especially my emotions and ability to connect deeply with others.
There is a HUGE belief hiding in this comment.

The belief that once the self illusion is seen through, the illusion with the story of the character will disappear.
But this cannot be further from the truth.
The illusion of the ‘me’ character won’t stop. Not at all.
It will go on just as now.

The me-character is ALREADY just assumed to be there, so why would it disappear when it’s seen to be a fictional character?

The story of Alison will go on. That’s for sure.
The illusion of Alison will still appear.


Alison will still go to work, will still have family and caring about her family. Happiness, sadness, loss, delight, frustration, sleepiness, tiredness, excitement, hunger, thirst, pleasure, pain, etc. will still go on just as now.

Your fear is coming from the belief that you will stop being a human, as if our humanness can be lost. But it’s impossible.

You are imagining it to be FAR bigger than how it’s actually is.

And there is another belief hiding here. The belief that once the self is seen through the whole world will change in an instant. No. Many people believe in this, and then they complain that their desires haven’t come true.

Seeing through the self is NOT an end. Far from it. It’s just the FIRST STEP, just the beginning.

The personality will stay almost completely intact. The personality is not affected. So whatever conditionings you have, almost all of them (if not all) will still go on. You have to work hard LATER, if you want to change your unpleasant conditionings which is causing suffering. And this work can last at the end of the organism, until death.
This is what it is, awareness is doing "Alison" and how she shows up in the world is how she is. Let's say Alison wants to make a behavior change, who/what is deciding that and making value judgments if she is successfully making those changes?
I cannot give you an answer to this, since that would be only an intellectual knowledge for you. I’m not a teacher to give you knowledge. Rather, I will help you to SEE it for yourself, and not just believe what I’m saying.
no I'm not a zombie, but again I question if my "being a caring/loving person" is something I was conditioned to be and I tell myself I should be because it's the "right" way to be.
Of course it’s a conditioning. But conditionings WON’T STOP. Why would they? Just as your conditioned patters of suffering won’t disappear, your conditioned habits of being kind and nice and loving won’t stop.
Can you speak of attachments please and the necessity of dropping all attachments that I've read about? I feel attached to my children. They are important to me. Their welfare, their life, their safety, everything...partly because they are "my" children. I know I don't own them of course but my biological connection makes them more important to me than say a child I've never met in China.
And why would this change? Attachments is a very deep wiring in the human brain. It’s not possible to change the wiring of the brain into something else in an instant.

Attachments are parts of being human. But even deeper than that. It’s part of being an animal, a mammal. Just as a tiger or elephant or a dog has attachment to their offspring’s and care and nurture them. And they don’t believe in a separate self, and yet they care and nurture.

You won’t stop being human. You won’t stop being an animal.

All right, I’ve written you a lot again. I usually don’t do this. I’m replying with such detail to help you to see that ALL your FEARS are based on FANTASIES.

If my comments cannot dispel your fears, then there isn’t much I could do. Since YOU are the one who created these fears, and YOU are the one who believes in them, so ONLY YOU can discard them. No one else can do it for you. It’s in your hands.

So, I would like to ask you to read this comment many times again, also please go back and read my previous other 2 posts too. Read these 3 post again and again to help to dispel your fears.

After doing so, please let me know if you feel ready to start the inquiry.

Vivien
"In the seen, there is only the seen. In the heard, there is only the heard. In the sensed, there is only the sensed. You are located neither in this, nor in that, nor in any place between the two." - Buddha
http://fadingveiling.com/

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Re: A hollow reed

Postby Alybug » Wed Nov 27, 2019 7:15 pm

Hi Vivien,
I appreciate your responses and frankness, yes I can see these are my self created fears and I wanted to be honest about them. I will read and reread everything and respond in more detail after I return from the Thanksgiving holiday Sunday.

Thanks again and happy Thanksgiving.
Much love,
Alison

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Re: A hollow reed

Postby Vivien » Thu Nov 28, 2019 1:24 am

Hi Alison,

All right, have a pleasant weekend,
Vivien
"In the seen, there is only the seen. In the heard, there is only the heard. In the sensed, there is only the sensed. You are located neither in this, nor in that, nor in any place between the two." - Buddha
http://fadingveiling.com/

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Re: A hollow reed

Postby Alybug » Sun Dec 01, 2019 10:27 pm

Hi Vivien,
I have read and reread all of your posts. I am not holding on to any fear about seeing through the self and I feel ready to begin the inquiry.
Alison

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Re: A hollow reed

Postby Vivien » Sun Dec 01, 2019 11:41 pm

Hi Alison,

All right. If any time during of our conversation fear or resistance come up, please let me know, so we can have a look on it.

We are going to start to investigate thoughts. Seeing thoughts clearly is essential part of the inquiry.

It is very important that you never think or ponder on the questions. Rather you actually have to look what you can see in your immediate experience without any thought interpretation.

Please always be thorough with looking. Look repeatedly several times before replying.

Please sit, doing nothing for a few minutes. Watch thoughts coming and going.

Can you trace a thought back to where it came?
In the same way, can you follow a thought to its destination?
Can you tell where thoughts come from and go to, without using any imagination or speculation?


Vivien
"In the seen, there is only the seen. In the heard, there is only the heard. In the sensed, there is only the sensed. You are located neither in this, nor in that, nor in any place between the two." - Buddha
http://fadingveiling.com/


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