What is mind?

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Vivien
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Re: What is mind?

Postby Vivien » Thu Jan 16, 2020 1:53 am

Hi Eren,
I have no found a solid, consistent "me". To answer this I would have to answer "where do thoughts take place?". It is being increasingly clear that thoughts take place in the same space/place that what I previously thought where physical locations. A thought can pop literally anywhere, so does the noticing of a belief or opinion.
You have to look more into this.

Do thoughts appear anywhere? Is this possible?
Is there ANY location where a thought could appear?


Be very thorough….

Vivien
"In the seen, there is only the seen. In the heard, there is only the heard. In the sensed, there is only the sensed. You are located neither in this, nor in that, nor in any place between the two." - Buddha
http://fadingveiling.com/

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StoneFree
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Re: What is mind?

Postby StoneFree » Sat Feb 08, 2020 12:11 pm

Hey Vivien, my apologies. I was on a trip for the past few weeks and did not have access to a computer.

A lot of observations have been made regarding thoughts:

-As I said a mental image can appear anywhere in the field of experience. Right now there is seeing of the screen of the computer but there are instances where there is an after image of the computer in the form of a mental pictures.

-In fact thoughts overlap sensory impressions and it is hard to find a border between the thought and a sensory impression. For instance right now I am hearing birds chirping. The moment the chirp appears there is already an assumption that it is the sound of a bird, located somewhere far away, in the sky. (But I have NO WAY of knowing if that is actually the truth about the sound). Yet it is clear that a sound has been heard in that moment.

-The body is another mental construction. Thoughts map sensations, gives them a location, a purpose and a meaning. I have no idea that the sensations of the weight of my body is in fact the actual weight of the body. I assume it is the weight of the body because there is the mental picture after "feeling" then a thought commenting about it and labeling it. But in direct experience it is pretty obvious. Same with the head, chest, feet and other parts. The moment I direct attention in order to "feel my feet" a mental picture of a feet has already been made and here I am back to the commenting of thought. So thoughts claim to know the senses but what is actually perceived (however it looks is nothing like what thought says about it).

There is the sensation that there is a head, with sensations in it, "seeing", but it is not true. Seeing happens, just colors, shapes etc. The head or front of the body is another assumption by thought superimposed. The colors also cannot "feel" the sensations of my arms or the front of my body. The sensations cannot see colors. The sensations of my head cannot hear the sound. Thought cannot see or hear or taste or smell or feel.

Inside and outside are also construction based on how the body is constructed by thought. Something that is outside lets say in the color field is always assumed by a thought. In colors there is truly no sense of something being inside or outside unless thought makes a story of sensations (bound by a mental image of a body) being inside a color field interacting with colors lol. Same with sound: mental picture of a head with ear binding sensations and "doing" the hearing "over there". But "over there" is another assumption by thought.

-Feelings/emotions are a tough one. When there is a sensation there is automatically a mental picture of it then an afterthought (sometimes not). Often I got confused believing I was feeling a sensation while in fact I was just holding onto an after image of it.

-Thoughts map linear time: this is a tough one, still looking. Some observations I have made is that thought assumes that time happens in the senses. It puts together one moment to the next. Assume a future based on a reflection of a previous thought or sense impression.

Lets say I hear the sound of a bird, well the mental picture following that sound is in fact a reflection of a previous experience of "hearing". Then another thought will comment on it, making a story and assumption of what that sound is, has been or will do. The past only exists in thought, the future is always an assumption of a thought based on another thought. What I often believed was the present sometimes is just holding on to another image taking place in thought.

-I also believe that this feeling of "emptiness" was true but in fact it was just a mental image of a dark, blank space claims that "where" sensory impressions are taking place. To be honest I have no idea where sensory impressions take place lol. Still deconstructing with the other senses. Often when there is emotional enmeshment or suffering there is a tendency to believe in the thinking that puts together, so I am deconstructing emotions also. It is funny that when an emotional is seen CLEARLY to be JUST SENSATIONS and a THOUGHT, it relaxes and things get clearer.

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Vivien
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Re: What is mind?

Postby Vivien » Sun Feb 09, 2020 5:39 am

Hi Eren,

You did a nice looking!
As I said a mental image can appear anywhere in the field of experience.
What do you mean by this? That the visual thought can LITERALLY APPEAR or BE at anywhere in experience?

If you are sitting in a room, then a visual thought can appear anywhere in the room? Inside the furniture, on the table, inside a cabinet, on the ceiling, etc?

Is there ANY physical location where thoughts appear, including visual thoughts?

Does experience have a field?
Does experience have borders?

-The body is another mental construction. Thoughts map sensations, gives them a location, a purpose and a meaning. I have no idea that the sensations of the weight of my body is in fact the actual weight of the body. I assume it is the weight of the body because there is the mental picture after "feeling" then a thought commenting about it and labeling it. But in direct experience it is pretty obvious. Same with the head, chest, feet and other parts. The moment I direct attention in order to "feel my feet" a mental picture of a feet has already been made and here I am back to the commenting of thought. So thoughts claim to know the senses but what is actually perceived (however it looks is nothing like what thought says about it).
This is a nice observation.
Inside and outside are also construction based on how the body is constructed by thought. Something that is outside lets say in the color field is always assumed by a thought. In colors there is truly no sense of something being inside or outside unless thought makes a story of sensations (bound by a mental image of a body) being inside a color field interacting with colors lol. Same with sound: mental picture of a head with ear binding sensations and "doing" the hearing "over there". But "over there" is another assumption by thought.
Very good observations.
-Feelings/emotions are a tough one. When there is a sensation there is automatically a mental picture of it then an afterthought (sometimes not). Often I got confused believing I was feeling a sensation while in fact I was just holding onto an after image of it.
What is it exactly that is feeling the sensations?
And what is it that is believing in verbal or visual thoughts?
And what is it exactly that can hold onto an after image?
so I am deconstructing emotions also.
What is it that is doing the deconstruction of emotions?
What does emotions happen TO?
What is FEELING the emotions?


Vivien
"In the seen, there is only the seen. In the heard, there is only the heard. In the sensed, there is only the sensed. You are located neither in this, nor in that, nor in any place between the two." - Buddha
http://fadingveiling.com/

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StoneFree
Posts: 36
Joined: Sun Nov 10, 2019 11:18 am

Re: What is mind?

Postby StoneFree » Wed Feb 12, 2020 11:59 am

What do you mean by this? That the visual thought can LITERALLY APPEAR or BE at anywhere in experience?
Where is a bit tricky in this sense. When there is seeing this is what happens: colors then a thought making an image of the color, saying what it is isnt, saying if it it can see it clearly etc. The place thought happens thought is beyond me, a more accurate way to say is that I have not yeah found a border between "where" a thought appears and where a color appears in direct experience. When there is a sense of a line or border it is seen that it was in fact a thought.

If you are sitting in a room, then a visual thought can appear anywhere in the room? Inside the furniture, on the table, inside a cabinet, on the ceiling, etc?
Not tryna play weird spiritual semantics here lol. But "I am in a room" is a thought. If I directly look into the compenents of the room as directly experience it is just colors, then a thought pops making a "coherent" image of what those colors are. Thought can even go so far as to say that a thought just appear inside furtniture, a table, a cabinet etc. There is no evidence of a dividing line between thought and color, yet paradoxically you can clearly distinguish them in the moment, thought happens "after" a color. Thought claims to KNOW what colors are.
Is there ANY physical location where thoughts appear, including visual thoughts?
The sensations of my face do not see thought or hear them. The sensations of my head do not see thoughts or hear them. No part of my sensation/body actually hears thought or sees visual thoughts. Truly in experience thought just appear but I have not found a border between thought and the senses.

It funny because it is thought that creates location. It becomes increasingly clear when hearing. Thought maps the sound in a location, then map another sound in another location, there is a subtle mental after image describing that this sound (with its content) happened over there, that sound (with its content) happened over here. Even the location of mental talk, happened right here. All thoughts! The moment a sound appears it is gone, only way to know its location is through thought. The only way to know a thoughts's location is by believing another thought that claims to know the location of a previous one.

Some thoughts say sensations happen in an empty blank dark background, some say sound happen far away in the environment, some say that is a mental picture of a body full of sensations in a room typing on a computer right now and noticing there is no self. All thoughts.

Does experience have a field?
If by field you mean a container of experience I have not yet found one. There is only what appears, what is perceived: sights, sounds, sensations, taste, smells, colors and thoughts.
Does experience have borders?
I have not found a particular time or place where experience "begins" or "ends". I can only tell a posteriori through thought. I also believed that experience restarted after being distracted, then I am "suddenly" aware. But I can only tell I was distracted "after the fact" through thought.
What is it exactly that is feeling the sensations?
Sensations just like sound appears. There was a sense that "thought feels" but its not true. There is just sensations appearing. Thought claims to be the container and "feeler" of sensations.
And what is it that is believing in verbal or visual thoughts?
A thought claiming to believe in verbal or visual thoughts.
And what is it exactly that can hold onto an after image?
A thought cannot hold onto an after image. There is just an after image, when it is time for it to be gone its gone.

I will answer to the other questions shortly.

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Vivien
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Re: What is mind?

Postby Vivien » Sat Feb 15, 2020 12:22 am

I will wait with my comments until you finished with the remaining questions.

Have a nice day,
Vivien
"In the seen, there is only the seen. In the heard, there is only the heard. In the sensed, there is only the sensed. You are located neither in this, nor in that, nor in any place between the two." - Buddha
http://fadingveiling.com/


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