Me?

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flowings
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Re: Me?

Postby flowings » Wed Dec 11, 2019 6:39 pm

...because all things in consciousness happen anyways.
Exactly!

But there is nevertheless this vague knowing of the "I"
If you can not proof the existence of a separate "I", this vague knowing is just a lie, isn't it?
It's a false belief, mistaken to be the truth.

Read my signature.
Truth isn’t about knowing things; you already know too much. It’s about unknowing.

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RonnieJamal
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Re: Me?

Postby RonnieJamal » Thu Dec 12, 2019 2:22 pm

If you can not proof the existence of a separate "I", this vague knowing is just a lie, isn't it?

That's true. And I do SEE this more clearly now. And yeah, your signature makes total sense now. But theres still doubt in my mind, that have I now realised this clearly. Have I unknowed the feeling of "I" the experiencer..

Or is it just all the information about the "losing of the separate self" like that it happens suddenly not gradually etc.. that bugs me still. And yes, these are pruducts of my mind, so I'm not that concerned about it, but it's still there..

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flowings
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Re: Me?

Postby flowings » Thu Dec 12, 2019 2:51 pm

No worries, we have time!
Our strategy is to 'bomb' your mind again and again with pointers from different angles in order to incapacitate that old belief of a separated self. :)

Let's have a look at the body.
Normally we see it as a container of self, like there is this separated "I", living inside that body.

Can you spot 'yourself' inside 'your body'?
Truth isn’t about knowing things; you already know too much. It’s about unknowing.

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RonnieJamal
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Re: Me?

Postby RonnieJamal » Fri Dec 13, 2019 11:09 am

Okay, great :)

Can you spot 'yourself' inside 'your body'?

No I can't. The feeling or the "knowing" of it is sometimes stronger. And when I do "know" that "I" am located somewhere in the body, its usually somewhere in the head. Behind the eyes, above breath and all the other bodily sensations. But when searched, it really isn't findable.. Seems that there is not even a way to spot it.

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flowings
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Re: Me?

Postby flowings » Fri Dec 13, 2019 12:42 pm

No there isn't! Good job!
There are just those bodily sensations. Some of them get easily mistaken to be the "I-feeling". This happens when the false self-belief latches onto them (in most cases it boards the bodily sensations "behind the eyes").
This all happens automatically - and ever since - and usually without us being aware of it.
This "strong knowing of it" as you framed it, can lose its power by debunking it (i.e. searching and not finding) again and again.

Dig a little deeper into bodily sensations. Sit in meditation pose or lie down if you like.
Here are some pointers:

Become aware of the various bodily sensations. Watch as all of them are constantly changing, progressing, evolving.
Can you find anything "solid", like a core of consciousness that deserves the title "Me"?

Can you spot a separated center, to which bodily sensations are happening to?
Is there an owner - or a creator of bodily sensations to be found?

Can you feel a border between body and the chair you are sitting on (or the mattress)?
Can you feel "inside" vs "outside"?

Can you feel size or shape of the body?
Truth isn’t about knowing things; you already know too much. It’s about unknowing.

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RonnieJamal
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Re: Me?

Postby RonnieJamal » Mon Dec 16, 2019 6:12 pm

There's a pretty simple answer to all of your questions. No. It's all just sensations that chance constantly. And there's not that big of a difference between bad and good sensations (if you leave the extremes out).

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flowings
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Re: Me?

Postby flowings » Tue Dec 17, 2019 10:43 am

That's a clear and straight reply.
And yet the idea of a separate self remains?

Where is it hiding?
What are you stuck on?
What is it that holds on to this idea of a separate self?
Truth isn’t about knowing things; you already know too much. It’s about unknowing.

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RonnieJamal
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Re: Me?

Postby RonnieJamal » Wed Dec 18, 2019 9:49 pm

I get it now! I was listening to music and realised that I'm not separate from the speaker where the music came from.. Or nor they're separate from each other! Or any other "object" in that matter! I even looked at the street and there, the same thing! And love is behind it all.. It makes so much sense now.

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flowings
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Re: Me?

Postby flowings » Thu Dec 19, 2019 1:40 pm

All right!
Would you say that the illusion of separate self has been looked through?

Have a truthful and straightforward look wether you can find any remaining traces of doubt!
Truth isn’t about knowing things; you already know too much. It’s about unknowing.

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RonnieJamal
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Re: Me?

Postby RonnieJamal » Thu Dec 19, 2019 2:09 pm

Would you say that the illusion of separate self has been looked through?
Yeah! There's no words for it.. Like nothing changed and yet everything. And it happened both gradually, yet all of sudden (like a fence has been brought down, and to notice that it's the same reality here too). Like you said, I've unknowed that "I" am somehow separate from all other things.

And yeah, there's no doubt anymore. No "self" lurking around anywhere.

I can't thank you enough Daniel! This has been amazing.. You have been amazing! Thank you. :)

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flowings
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Re: Me?

Postby flowings » Thu Dec 19, 2019 4:25 pm

Wonderful! I love the fence metaphor! :D

Take some time to let everything settle.
Maybe you want to go in nature, sit there for a bit, and watch how everything moves and wiggles, how the wind blows, how the clouds move. If you can’t go, a view through a window is fine too. People and animals move. Everything is one movement, including your body, breath, and thoughts. Watch the totality, and notice - there is no 'noticer' separate from the noticing...
Truth isn’t about knowing things; you already know too much. It’s about unknowing.

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flowings
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Re: Me?

Postby flowings » Thu Jan 02, 2020 5:29 pm

Happy new year!

Thanks for your email reply. So here are the final questions for the sake of completeness.
Take your time to answer them. Only regard your own experience, not what the mind might think about this or that.

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form?
Was there ever?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience.
Describe it fully as you see it now.

3) How does it feel to see this?
What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over; made you look?

5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen?
What are you responsible for?
Give examples from your own recent experiences to how this works.

6) Anything to add?
Truth isn’t about knowing things; you already know too much. It’s about unknowing.

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RonnieJamal
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Re: Me?

Postby RonnieJamal » Sat Jan 11, 2020 12:22 pm

Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form?
Was there ever?
No the is not and there never was. Just consciousness and its contents where the "feeling of being something (me)" includes.
Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience.
Describe it fully as you see it now.
It's basically a thought . You're "in" a thought when you're feeling separate from anything that's appearing in consciousness. And you can first start to glimpse it, but you might not realise that that is what you're "searching" for.
How does it feel to see this?
What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.
It feels clear. It feels like now. The difference is, that I can function out/as of this open awareness. And do it in a way that I don't need to be my thoughts and feelings. It also helps me to understand people (even "bad" ones) that we are in this together. That love is the foundation of this whole being.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over; made you look?

I was doing metta meditation while the music was on when trough love for myself made me see that there is no I and everything else. There's just love and contents of consciousness. And it hit me so clear that I was in the clouds for couple of days (sort of speak). Just becouse I have realised that this is always how everything has been all along.
5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen?
What are you responsible for?
Give examples from your own recent experiences to how this works.

Decision is based on your information and how you process it, or you can decide on intuition. But there is a limit for what is able for you to decide. Based on your influences and environmental factors. It's always the "right" decision, becouse you cannot make another decision.
Your intention should always come from the place of selflessness. And with goodness. Thoughts and feeling can lead to not so good intentions.
This makes free will an illusion. You can't decide what you think of hear or see. So all the influences throughout the life are just coming to you. So you cant decide the thoughts you're thinking and if you reactively act from impulse of a thought, it is not by your choice.
BUT you are responsible for your actions, either you can help them of not. And seeing the world in non-egocentric way can help you act out of the place where you can not react and act based on thought alone.

6) Anything to add?
You're doing great work here! Live changing work, and "I" am forever grateful to you!

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flowings
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Re: Me?

Postby flowings » Mon Jan 13, 2020 7:25 pm

Hi Ronnie!

Thank you for your answers.
Some other guides will have a look on the thread to see if any more questions show up.

Alles Liebe,
Daniel
Truth isn’t about knowing things; you already know too much. It’s about unknowing.

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flowings
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Joined: Thu Oct 06, 2016 10:38 am

Re: Me?

Postby flowings » Tue Jan 14, 2020 6:26 pm

Hi Ronnie!

Here's a question coming from another guide:
Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form?
Was there ever?
No the is not and there never was. Just consciousness and its contents where the "feeling of being something (me)" includes.

What are "consciousness" and "contents of consciousness"?
Truth isn’t about knowing things; you already know too much. It’s about unknowing.


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