Me?

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flowings
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Re: Me?

Postby flowings » Fri Nov 29, 2019 2:10 am

being present takes me to a place of tranquility, that this is it, and everything is exactly as it should.
It's such a relief to be at this moment,
This is beautiful! Just make sure you don't get hooked on this. The goal is not to create and maintain bliss, just regard it like a possible side effect.

"I" am more of the one who's aware off all, yet still the experience itself.
So the "I" is something separated from awareness?
It's there anything else apart from experience?
Truth isn’t about knowing things; you already know too much. It’s about unknowing.

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RonnieJamal
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Re: Me?

Postby RonnieJamal » Fri Nov 29, 2019 12:29 pm

So the "I" is something separated from awareness?
It's there anything else apart from experience?

I'm aware that that i'm aware. I'm also aware, that i'm aware, that I'm aware.
But if I put it like that, it comes sort of infinite awareness of awareness..
So who's aware? It seems that it's "me" or the "infinity"..
This sounds pretty wacky when you write straight from experience, and have no capacity to put it in words.

And no there's nothing else in my experience that's apart from my experience.

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flowings
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Re: Me?

Postby flowings » Fri Nov 29, 2019 5:11 pm

I'm aware that that i'm aware. I'm also aware, that i'm aware, that I'm aware.
But if I put it like that, it comes sort of infinite awareness of awareness..
Just like this GIF, right? :)

So who's aware? It seems that it's "me" or the "infinity"..
It seems so... "There must be something that is aware!" says the mind, but:

Is a "something" necessary for awareness to happen?
Why?
Truth isn’t about knowing things; you already know too much. It’s about unknowing.

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RonnieJamal
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Re: Me?

Postby RonnieJamal » Sun Dec 01, 2019 4:18 pm

Yeah, like the gif! :D


Is a "something" necessary for awareness to happen?
Why?



I do not know. How could nothing be aware of anything? Awareness needs a "host" of somesorts, does it? Cause a coffee mug (at my desk atm) for example, can't be aware of itself. Why can't it, I do not know.

More questions arise from my mind and when I try to see things and make sense, feels like my body and mind knots itself into a slipknot..
Hope I didn't disappoint with my answers, being maybe a bit on the "thinking" side again. I have a feeling of hitting a ceiling when I "take my experience" to a certain point..

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flowings
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Re: Me?

Postby flowings » Sun Dec 01, 2019 9:28 pm

Eventually the ceiling will crack after hitting it again and again from different angles.
Awareness needs a "host" of somesorts, does it?
Does it? Maybe it can host itself infinitely... just without the interlinked concept of "I" am aware that "I" am aware that...

when I try to see things and make sense, feels like my body and mind knots itself into a slipknot..
Yeah, that happens when the mind goes for a stroll on the thinking side again 😜
That's OK.

Your coffee mug appears within awareness.
Let's take your mug and change the angle of inquiry.
Look at it (literally, with your eyes)
Are you aware of the mug?
Can "watching the mug" happen without awareness?
Truth isn’t about knowing things; you already know too much. It’s about unknowing.

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RonnieJamal
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Re: Me?

Postby RonnieJamal » Mon Dec 02, 2019 9:50 pm

Are you aware of the mug?
Can "watching the mug" happen without awareness

Yes. I'm aware of the mug.
Watching the mug cannot happen without awareness. Or that's at least how I feel..

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flowings
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Re: Me?

Postby flowings » Mon Dec 02, 2019 11:04 pm

I'm aware of the mug.
Focus on the pure experience of seeing.
Is "I can see my coffee mug" part of direct experience (of seeing)?
What do you really see - and where does thought content / labelling / interpretation begin?
Can you find an 'owner' or 'creator' of seeing, separated from seeing?
It's there any form of awareness to whom seeing happens?
Truth isn’t about knowing things; you already know too much. It’s about unknowing.

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RonnieJamal
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Re: Me?

Postby RonnieJamal » Mon Dec 09, 2019 2:39 pm

Sorry, I did post this much earlier (or I was apparently posting), but only to notice, since I haven't heard back from you, that my last post was sent to cyberspace somewhere.. 😔

So here we go again..
Is "I can see my coffee mug" part of direct experience (of seeing)?

No, the only thing in seeing is the visuals that I see. Shapes, lights, colors... "I can see my coffee mug" is just another labelling for the experience of seeing the mug.

What do you really see - and where does thought content / labelling / interpretation begin?

I see (if looking at the cup) an shape of something that is as bright as it is and it's colors. Labelling starts when I can't get as much information about the object as i "need" by just seeing it.

Can you find an 'owner' or 'creator' of seeing, separated from seeing?
It's there any form of awareness to whom seeing happens?

No and yes.
Seeing is always on. Nothing creates it.
But.. I do still feel that the seeing is happening to "me" . Although I cannot say what is this "I" that it happens to.

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flowings
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Re: Me?

Postby flowings » Mon Dec 09, 2019 3:21 pm

Hey! Welcome back!
Why don't you just take 5 min/day to open the forum and check, whether or not I answered your post?
Would that be okay for you?

"I can see my coffee mug" is just another labelling for the experience of seeing the mug.
So there is the visual experience of seeing "shapes, lights, colors" that creates the label "coffee mug".
What about the "I" in that sentence? It's that directly experienced in seeing, or is it also part of labelling?

I do still feel that the seeing is happening to "me" .
Explore this deeper.
Is there really a 'feeling'? What kind of feeling would that be? We can for instance feel temperature or textures (bodily sensations) or we can feel sad or happy (emotional sensations). But apparently it's neither of these, right?
So what is it?
Truth isn’t about knowing things; you already know too much. It’s about unknowing.

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RonnieJamal
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Re: Me?

Postby RonnieJamal » Mon Dec 09, 2019 8:20 pm

Why don't you just take 5 min/day to open the forum and check, whether or not I answered your post?

Good point. I'll do that.

What about the "I" in that sentence? It's that directly experienced in seeing, or is it also part of labelling?

Yeah, the "I" is also

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RonnieJamal
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Re: Me?

Postby RonnieJamal » Mon Dec 09, 2019 8:33 pm

Sorry about the post above..

Okay so..
What about the "I" in that sentence? It's that directly experienced in seeing, or is it also part of labelling?

Yeah, the "I" is also a label for "the one from which the attention focuses to the cup.

Is there really a 'feeling'? What kind of feeling would that be? We can for instance feel temperature or textures (bodily sensations) or we can feel sad or happy (emotional sensations). But apparently it's neither of these, right?
So what is it?

No, it's not one of those feelings. So, yeah not a feeling. But I cannot SEE what it is. There's no way to explain it than just that "it" "is.

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flowings
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Re: Me?

Postby flowings » Mon Dec 09, 2019 9:33 pm

Yeah, the "I" is also a label for "the one from which the attention focuses to the cup.
And what about "the one from which the attention focuses to the cup"? Can you find something like this in actual experience or is it more... like a mental image?

So, yeah not a feeling. But I cannot SEE what it is. There's no way to explain it than just that "it" "is.
I totally understand, RonnieJamal!
Let me suggest something: Is it maybe like a vague knowing that "the seeing is happening to you"?
Truth isn’t about knowing things; you already know too much. It’s about unknowing.

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RonnieJamal
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Re: Me?

Postby RonnieJamal » Tue Dec 10, 2019 4:39 pm

And what about "the one from which the attention focuses to the cup"? Can you find something like this in actual experience or is it more... like a mental image?

No, it's not in the experience itself. In the experience of seeing there's nothing else in it. No object or subject. So yeah, it's a mental image/learned model that I haven't proven to be wrong nor right.

Let me suggest something: Is it maybe like a vague knowing that "the seeing is happening to you"?
Yeah that exactly how it seems to be! Something vague indeed, that can't be grasped..

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flowings
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Re: Me?

Postby flowings » Tue Dec 10, 2019 5:25 pm

Well done!

So observing the reality of seeing you can not find anything besides the pure experience. No object. No subject. Seeing happens. Period.
Besides, mental images and labels show up including a vague knowing about a separatef self.

So where is that separate "I-subject" hiding?
If it really exists, there must be more than just thoughts that pop up, right?
Truth isn’t about knowing things; you already know too much. It’s about unknowing.

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RonnieJamal
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Re: Me?

Postby RonnieJamal » Wed Dec 11, 2019 5:05 pm

So where is that separate "I-subject" hiding?
If it really exists, there must be more than just thoughts that pop up, right?

I cannot see where it is. And I cannot see it's purpose, because all things in consciousness happen anyways..
Yet if there is a "I-subject" hiding somewhere.. No it actually doesn't fit in the picture anymore. But there is nevertheless this vague knowing of the "I".

I will try to look for "subject-I". But It doesn't seem possible.


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