Does CircadianBJC Exist?

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Bella
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Re: Does CircadianBJC Exist?

Postby Bella » Wed Oct 23, 2019 4:35 pm

Hi Brian,
In looking, there is only thought.
Do you mean that the OBSERVATION that there is no mind only happens while looking? Or do you mean that outside looking there is still a mind?
Yes. Thoughts can be experienced as arising and being known in my looking. However, when I look, the content of thought is without substance - no form, empty. Based on my observing, thoughts can be experienced but not their content
Exactly.
Thoughts about mind and self exist and are experienced, but these thoughts are empty.
Now let’s have a deeper look on thoughts as such. Sit for about 15 minutes and investigate these questions:

Where do thoughts come from?
Where are they going?
Can ‘you’ stop a thought in the middle?
Can ‘you’ predict what will be the next thought?
Can 'you' choose not to have painful or negative thoughts?

Can an 'I' be found that generates thoughts?
“I think” - What is 'I'? What is the one that thinks?
What is the thinker of thoughts?
Does the thinker of the thought appear in experience? Can it be found?
Or could it be that the 'I' that thinks is also just a thought?
Do you think thoughts or you are just ‘being thought’?
Is it possible to prevent a thought from appearing? Including the thought 'I'?


Please go through these questions and answer and quote ALL of them one-by-one. Try to answer them only from your experience, and leave aside all intellectual interpretation or understanding. Please, DON’T THINK about the answers, rather LOOK at what is and tell me what you observe. Take your time.

Bella

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CircadianBJC
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Re: Does CircadianBJC Exist?

Postby CircadianBJC » Sun Oct 27, 2019 4:19 am

Do you mean that the OBSERVATION that there is no mind only happens while looking? Or do you mean that outside looking there is still a mind?
I have been unable to locate a mind in my direct experience. When I look, there is no mind. When I become aware of a sense of mind, I have invariably found this to be comprised of thought and nothing more.
Where do thoughts come from?
Throughout investigating, I do not know where thoughts come from. They are observed to simply be known. There is only thinking. Thoughts are observed as an appearance without an author or predictable pattern whatsoever.
Where are they going?
In looking, there is not a direction that thoughts are going. They are observed to be absent in one moment and present in the next. I observe that thoughts may be known for a few seconds and then disappear thereafter. If there is a grasping at the content, a fantasy, for example, thoughts may last for a longer period of time and increase in intensity. Without grasping at pleasant thoughts or pushing away unpleasant thoughts, thoughts are observed to not have a direction. They appear, fade, and disappear without substance.
Can ‘you’ stop a thought in the middle?
Observing a thought arise with a prior intention of stopping the next thought invariably led to more thinking about the prior thought. Thoughts would not stop. I observed that any intention to stop thinking tended to result in more thoughts. Once the intention was stopped, the frequency of thinking tended to decrease. When looking, there was not a 'me' to stop a thought. There was not a thinker to think the next thought before it was observed.
Can ‘you’ predict what will be the next thought?
Throughout my looking, no. Thoughts arise and their content seems fundamentally mysterious. In looking, any attempt to justify what a certain thought arose was known to just be more thinking. A story of thoughts about why the previous thought arose.
Can 'you' choose not to have painful or negative thoughts?
Throughout looking, no. All thoughts, negative or positive, are observed to be known without choice. Setting an intention not to think negative thoughts was observed to just be more thinking about thinking. I cannot observe a thinker of thoughts. Just thoughts being known.
Can an 'I' be found that generates thoughts? “I think” - What is 'I'? What is the one that thinks?
I am unable to find any "I" that is a thinker. In looking, the "I" appears to be a product of our language. The "I" refers to the knowing of thoughts that arise in consciousness. When investigating, thinker and thoughts collapse into a single awareness of thought.
What is the thinker of thoughts?
In looking, no thinker can be located, only thoughts being observed.
Does the thinker of the thought appear in experience? Can it be found?
There is no thinker in experience that can be found.
Or could it be that the 'I' that thinks is also just a thought?
This is the observation. An "I" appears to be generated when thoughts about "my" life, "my" children, "my" job, (etc) arise.
Do you think thoughts or you are just ‘being thought’?
The observation is that thought is being known. In looking, a body seems to exist, there is sight, sound, smell, taste, bodily sensations, and thoughts and emotions arising and being known in awareness. There is no "I", "me", "my", locus of control, or owner over these experiences. Just the contents of awareness being known.
Is it possible to prevent a thought from appearing? Including the thought 'I'?
From the investigation so far, no. I observe that it is possible to recognize the thought "I" as merely a thought. When this observation occurs, I find a relaxing back into being aware of experience arising and a decrease in mental suffering and physical tension. When the thought "I" is not recognized, there is a story that is observed, a drama, a movie that begins until the "I" is recognized as thought.

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Bella
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Re: Does CircadianBJC Exist?

Postby Bella » Sun Oct 27, 2019 8:46 pm

Hi Brian,

You had a good looking on thoughts. Let’s look a bit deeper.
When I look, there is no mind. When I become aware of a sense of mind, I have invariably found this to be comprised of thought and nothing more.
This is clearly stated. Thank you.
If there is a grasping at the content, a fantasy, for example, thoughts may last for a longer period of time and increase in intensity.
Now let’s look at the SEEMING lasting of thoughts and their content.
It seems that thought has some logical ordered appearance, but look carefully and just notice if there is an organised sequence. Or is it just another thought that says ‘these thoughts are in sequence’ or “they take content from previous thought”, or that "one thought follows another thought"?

How can a thought increase in intensity?

Without grasping at pleasant thoughts or pushing away unpleasant thoughts, thoughts are observed to not have a direction.
What is it exactly that is grasping at thoughts, or pushing away thoughts?
Is there a grasper?
How is a grasper experienced?

Bella: Can an 'I' be found that generates thoughts? “I think” - What is 'I'? What is the one that thinks?
Brian: I am unable to find any "I" that is a thinker. In looking, the "I" appears to be a product of our language. The "I" refers to the knowing of thoughts that arise in consciousness.
The I or the self can manifest in many ways. One way is as a content of a thought. So in “I think” the “I” is thoughtcontent. Can you see this?
Are YOU thinking thoughts?

When investigating, thinker and thoughts collapse into a single awareness of thought. 
Well spotted!
This is the observation. An "I" appears to be generated when thoughts about "my" life, "my" children, "my" job, (etc) arise.
How is this I exactly generated? Where do you find it?

Bella

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CircadianBJC
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Re: Does CircadianBJC Exist?

Postby CircadianBJC » Thu Oct 31, 2019 4:02 am

Or is it just another thought that says ‘these thoughts are in sequence’ or “they take content from previous thought”, or that "one thought follows another thought"?
When looking, thoughts are just arising. They appear in the order that they appear. Order and disorder of thought content appear as yet another thought about thinking.
How can a thought increase in intensity?
In looking, there is no intensity of thought. There is the observation that some thoughts may capture attention for longer periods than others. However, the label of "more intense" or "less intense" appears as more thoughts about the content of prior thoughts.
What is it exactly that is grasping at thoughts, or pushing away thoughts? Is there a grasper? How is a grasper experienced?
I cannot find a grasper. There are emotions that arise that are experienced as pleasant, unpleasant, or neutral following some thoughts. In looking, pleasant emotions associated with thought are experienced as an increase in thoughts about wanting more of that thought (grasping). Negative emotions about thoughts are experienced as more thinking about wanting less of that thought (pushing away). Neutral, neither thinking about wanting more or less of that thought. I cannot find something that is grasping or pushing. Just thoughts arising, emotions experienced, sensations known, and more thinking about thinking.
The I or the self can manifest in many ways. One way is as a content of a thought. So in “I think” the “I” is thought content. Can you see this? Are YOU thinking thoughts?
Yes. There is no thinker of thoughts that I can find. There is thought and the knowing of thought. There are thoughts that tell a story about "I" or "my", but I cannot find anything other than thought. No thinker. Just thoughts.
How is this I exactly generated? Where do you find it?
When looking, I find this "I" appearing exclusively as thought. I can look down and observe "my leg." However, when I look, this is experienced as thought about "my leg" rather than there being a leg that belongs to a self. There is the sight of a leg, sensations on or in the leg that are being known, thoughts about the leg, but no owner. No thinker of thoughts. No generator of sensations. I am experiencing sights, sounds, smells, tastes, sensations, thoughts, and emotions - and they are happening all by themselves. This whole process is experienced as a dramatic unburdening, a decrease in effort, an allowing of life to unfold. Simple.

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Bella
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Re: Does CircadianBJC Exist?

Postby Bella » Thu Oct 31, 2019 8:10 pm

Hi Brian,
I am experiencing sights, sounds, smells, tastes, sensations, thoughts, and emotions - and they are happening all by themselves.
Where is this experiencer located?
Is there an experiencer that experiences these sense impressions and emotions?
How does the act of experiencing happen?


Bella

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CircadianBJC
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Re: Does CircadianBJC Exist?

Postby CircadianBJC » Thu Oct 31, 2019 11:39 pm

Where is this experiencer located?
Is there an experiencer that experiences these sense impressions and emotions?
How does the act of experiencing happen?
This distinction is effective. When looking, there is seeing, hearing, smelling, tasting, feeling, and thinking. Experience and experiencer collapse to the experience. An experiencer cannot be found.

Experiencing is observed to appear as an awareness of phenomena. One arising after another. When impressions and emotions are known in awareness, there is an experiencing of that impression or emotion.

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Bella
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Re: Does CircadianBJC Exist?

Postby Bella » Fri Nov 01, 2019 7:44 pm

Hi Brian,
Experience and experiencer collapse to the experience.
When this is the case, where is this separate self? Where is it? What is it? Look everywhere. Describe what you observe.

Bella

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CircadianBJC
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Re: Does CircadianBJC Exist?

Postby CircadianBJC » Mon Nov 04, 2019 9:42 pm

When this is the case, where is this separate self? Where is it? What is it? Look everywhere. Describe what you observe.
I cannot observe a separate self; only experience remains. I observe sensations, thoughts, and emotions. Nothing separate. Thoughts may arise and are known as labels, interpretations, and judgments ... but these are not experienced as a self. The experience I have found is of losing a "mind". Further, this mind can remain lost. It is not needed and cannot be found in looking.

Everything just is. I observe a struggle to describe this in words. Does this make sense, Bella? :)

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Bella
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Re: Does CircadianBJC Exist?

Postby Bella » Tue Nov 05, 2019 11:10 am

Hi Brian,

Yes, it is a struggle to describe experience. You’re doing well. Let’s broaden the perspective and look from other angles to this “experience”.

Here is an excersise.

1. Place both hands on a table in front of you, palms down.
2. When you have done that, rest for a moment and then raise one hand in the air but not the other.
Don't go to thoughts, examine your experience. Do this as many times as you like, and each time inquire:-

What is it exactly that is choosing which hand to raise?
Can you find a separate individual or anything that is doing the choosing? What is it that is controlling the hand?
Can a ‘controller’ of any decision be located?
Can anything be found that makes the hand move?
How is the decision made?


Please answer and quote each question separately. Use different looking sessions for each question.

Bella

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CircadianBJC
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Re: Does CircadianBJC Exist?

Postby CircadianBJC » Fri Nov 08, 2019 5:24 am

Here is an excersise.

1. Place both hands on a table in front of you, palms down.
2. When you have done that, rest for a moment and then raise one hand in the air but not the other.
Don't go to thoughts, examine your experience. Do this as many times as you like, and each time inquire:-
What is it exactly that is choosing which hand to raise?
The experience was of there being no decider. Observation of thoughts going back and forth from left hand to right hand, to right again, then to left, a slight movement in the left hand, then the right . . . . and after maybe 8 or 9 seconds, the left hand was raised. When repeating this process, it was the right hand the next time. However, no decider was observed.
Can you find a separate individual or anything that is doing the choosing? What is it that is controlling the hand?
This is fundamentally mysterious. It's actually really funny and occasionally there was smiling observed while doing the exercise. Nothing appears to be choosing anything. There were intentions to move one hand, but these faded, then intensified and switched to the other hand. At some time in the future, one hand was raised. As an observer, this is happening completely in the dark - on its own - no chooser - no controller.
Can a ‘controller’ of any decision be located?
Right-hand wins this time ... apparently. The observation this time was of differences in felt energy. Little energy in the arms and hands when observing them resting on the table, little energy while waiting, little energy while waiting longer, then a sudden swell of energy down both arms and into each hand, then movement in both hands, the left raising slightly, then back down, then the right hand lifting off the surface and into the air. Again, mysterious. No controller of any decision.
Can anything be found that makes the hand move?
More smiling. Nothing is observed that is making the hand move besides a gradual observation that energy being known in the arms begins to arise - seemingly at random intervals - and then a hand moves. This time, the right hand raised halfway, a thought was known of "this is the same hand as last time," then the left hand and arm shot up above the right. Apparently left hand and arm win this round.
How is the decision made?
Ha!! Thoughts were divorced from this process on this trial. Thoughts of "now move the left hand on this trial . . . just decide to move the left hand and move it." Then . . . . . NOTHING happens. 10 seconds go by, and nothing. The ultimate decision is observed to just happen. On each trial, there was no knowledge of someone or something deciding before the decision was made. Once again, the observation is one of mystery.

No ghost in the machine, Bella?!? :)

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Bella
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Re: Does CircadianBJC Exist?

Postby Bella » Fri Nov 08, 2019 9:03 pm

Hi Brian,
No ghost in the machine, Bella?!? :)
This is for you to see! You’re doing great. Doing this way of looking is setting you up right in front of the gate. Keep at it.

Seeing through the illusion of self will happen during looking. And looking can be done many times during the day. During getting up in the morning, during going to the toilet, during breakfast, washing up etc. You can always look like this: what is making this movement happen? Or is there only movement? Is there a controller that controls this activity? Or is there just activity happening?
Where does the "decision", the "command" to get up in the morning/to pee/to eat/to think/to walk etc. come from? What makes the body move? Does a ‘you’ or a thought command the body?

Do this as many times as you like during the day. Let me know what you observe.
Please be careful while participating in traffic.

Bella

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CircadianBJC
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Re: Does CircadianBJC Exist?

Postby CircadianBJC » Mon Nov 11, 2019 10:24 pm

Do this as many times as you like during the day. Let me know what you observe.
During all episodes of looking, there is no decider or decision for behaviors, sensations, emotions, or thoughts. This really is just happening on its own. It's a lifting-the-hand exercise applied to moment-to-moment existence. This is happening now while typing. Fingers are moving in patterns that produce this sentence. ANd the next . . . and there is noticing that the "N" in that last "ANd" was mistakenly capitalized. There is a known hesitancy to go back and change that mistake. This could change in a moment, but it hasn't yet and may not. No self, no ghost, no machine aside from what is observed at the moment without authorship.

The experience is one of freedom with never being captive. Dropping of a burden that appears not to have needed lifting in the first place.

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Bella
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Re: Does CircadianBJC Exist?

Postby Bella » Wed Nov 13, 2019 11:34 am

Hi Brian,
Well done. This looking can be done all the time.

Let’s look a bit more at the one typing and deciding not to correct the error.
Is there anywhere an autonomous entity to find responsible for the choice not to correct the error? If so responsible to what and for what?
Can you find in your experience anywhere a free will to choose one or the other (correcting or not-correcting)?


Bella

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CircadianBJC
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Re: Does CircadianBJC Exist?

Postby CircadianBJC » Wed Nov 13, 2019 8:22 pm

Is there anywhere an autonomous entity to find responsible for the choice not to correct the error? If so responsible to what and for what?
Can you find in your experience anywhere a free will to choose one or the other (correcting or not-correcting)?
No. In looking, there are thoughts about choice and observations of choices being made, or not being made, with actions.

The experience is the same as lifting the right or left hand. The experience is one of witnessing a choice being made when it occurs. Thoughts about events in the past preceding the choice and other thoughts about responses in the future may arise, but there is no autonomous, responsible entity that can be found.

There is no freedom of will in this ... and it feels incredibly freeing :)

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Bella
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Re: Does CircadianBJC Exist?

Postby Bella » Thu Nov 14, 2019 6:47 pm

Hi Brian,

Let’s bring a bit more detail with the next exercise.
Lie down on a bed. Observe very carefully how the decision arises to get up.
Can a self be found making the body leave the bed?
Where does the decision, the command, to get up come from?
What makes the body get up?
Is there a ‘you’ that commands the body?

When lying there shout “GET UP” internally as loud as you can. Does this affect the outcome?

Repeat this with sitting in a chair.
Describe in detail the decision of standing up.
How does the decision happen exactly?
Does a self come in and take over, weighing pros and cons, looking at possible consequences? Or does standing up just happen, or not, without any doer?
What makes the body stand up?


Bella


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