The Tipping Point

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SKD108
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Joined: Mon Oct 07, 2019 6:44 pm

Re: The Tipping Point

Postby SKD108 » Sat Feb 08, 2020 12:21 am

So is seeking still going on?
Yes. I guess that means I haven’t looked enough or seen what needs to be seen.
S: It has not been a permanent shift, but I can go back and look and see that there is nothing here doing the experiencing and that experience is all there is.
V:And is there a need or a desire for a permanent shift?
There isn’t a need but a desire to seeing what’s true consistently rather than contracting back into the feeling of a me who thinks its in control and is separate from the rest of life. I know you’re going to tell me that this is an unrealistic expectation, but I’m just being honest that the desire to be established in Truth is there.
What would experience that ‘permanent shift’?
I have said that in brief moments it is seen that there is no experiencer, just experience. So any shift would just be another experience, without an experiencer. However, in this moment I am feeling like an experiencer – a lot of emotional pain and confusion about what to do about it. Emotions that are experienced, thoughts coming and going. I look for what could possibly be experiencing these things. Me, I am. What is me/I? Nothing – there is nothing here. What I am must be experience itself. All that is here is experience.
What would that permanent shift happen TO?
Nothing. It would just be another experience, a shift in experience itself.
S: I have not had "an awakening" in the way I had hoped or expected,
V: What would awakening happen TO?
Of course it “feels like” it would happen to “me” – but looking closely at the fact that I can’t find a me, that’s impossible. So I guess the answer is nothing.
What is there that could awaken?
Nothing – awakeness is already here.
What could experience awakening?
Nothing, but People who have had awakenings have described the distinct difference before and after awakening. If there is nothing that awakens or experiences awakening, then it must only be the experience itself that changes.

Love,
Sandra

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Vivien
Posts: 4771
Joined: Sat Jun 07, 2014 3:07 am
Location: Australia

Re: The Tipping Point

Postby Vivien » Sat Feb 08, 2020 2:00 am

Hi Sandra,
Yes. I guess that means I haven’t looked enough or seen what needs to be seen.
Yes, and most of your recent replies are intellectual.
There isn’t a need but a desire to seeing what’s true consistently rather than contracting back into the feeling of a me who thinks its in control and is separate from the rest of life. I know you’re going to tell me that this is an unrealistic expectation, but I’m just being honest that the desire to be established in Truth is there.
I appreciate your honestly.

So as long as there is a desire for ‘being established in truth” you have to look of the THING repeatedly, again and again, 50 to 100 times a day.

Since as long as there is a desire to be established in truth, there is a belief that there is SOMETHING, that there is a self/me which could be established in the truth.

So you have to look for it again and again.
I have said that in brief moments it is seen that there is no experiencer, just experience. So any shift would just be another experience, without an experiencer. However, in this moment I am feeling like an experiencer – a lot of emotional pain and confusion about what to do about it.
Please describe to me the FEELING of ‘being the experiencer’.
But don’t go into stories, speculations or theories. Describe just the PURE FEELING of it.

Emotions that are experienced, thoughts coming and going. I look for what could possibly be experiencing these things. Me, I am. What is me/I? Nothing – there is nothing here. What I am must be experience itself.
The last sentence “what I am must be experience itself’ is a HUGE LOGICAL conclusion.

What makes you think that there is an I which has to be something?
Do you believe that there is an I or a self and you have to figure out what you are?
Is this looking about figuring out what you are?
Or is this looking about seeing that there is no I whatsoever, so there is LITERALLY NOTHING that the word can be?
V: What would that permanent shift happen TO?
S: Nothing. It would just be another experience, a shift in experience itself.
You didn’t look with this question. You just gave an intellectual answer.

I NEVER ask your thoughts or opinions… I ALWAYS ask you to LOOK with every single question I give you.

So when I ask ‘what would that permanent shift happen to’ then I ask you to LITERALLY SEARCH FOR THE THING, that the shift could happen to.

The thing is that you are not looking deep enough. You are giving an intellectual ‘right’ answer. But you are not taking my questions literally, as pointers.

But ALL of my questions are pointers for you to look.

So I ask it again, but this time LOOK at least 100 times again and again before replying:

What would that permanent shift happen to?
Of course it “feels like” it would happen to “me” – but looking closely at the fact that I can’t find a me, that’s impossible. So I guess the answer is nothing.
Again, you are not looking thoroughly enough. You are guessing.
But you cannot get anywhere with guessing.
Only looking can help.

Are you willing and ready to stop thinking, guessing and to actually LOOK?
V: What is there that could awaken?
S: Nothing – awakeness is already here.
Again, you didn’t look. You just wrote the ‘right’ intellectual answer.
V: What could experience awakening?
S: Nothing, but People who have had awakenings have described the distinct difference before and after awakening. If there is nothing that awakens or experiences awakening, then it must only be the experience itself that changes.
Again, this is an intellectual answer.

Look Sandra, we are not just having an everyday conversation here. When I ask questions I’m not asking you to converse me about it, I’m asking you to LOOK. With every single question.

It’s not enough to talk about others, it’s not enough to give the right answer, it’s not enough to guess, it’s not enough to think, it’s not enough to contemplate, it’s not enough to ponder, it’s not enough to speculate.

YOU HAVE TO LOOK!

Vivien
"In the seen, there is only the seen. In the heard, there is only the heard. In the sensed, there is only the sensed. You are located neither in this, nor in that, nor in any place between the two." - Buddha
http://fadingveiling.com/

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SKD108
Posts: 112
Joined: Mon Oct 07, 2019 6:44 pm

Re: The Tipping Point

Postby SKD108 » Sat Feb 08, 2020 2:37 am

Vivien,

I am looking and trying not to think about the questions and somehow I'm not doing it correctly.
Before I move forward with these questions, can you give me any advice or guidance on proper looking so that I don't waste any more of your time?

Thank you,
Sandra

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Vivien
Posts: 4771
Joined: Sat Jun 07, 2014 3:07 am
Location: Australia

Re: The Tipping Point

Postby Vivien » Sat Feb 08, 2020 3:47 am

Hi Sandra,

Looking means ignoring everything thoughts say, and paying attention only to experience (sound, color, sensation, taste, smell). Going down to the bare bones, to the facts of reality.

I don’t know what else to say. Your main problem is not how to look, but that you are not using my questions as pointers, as an invitation to look, but rather you give an intellectual explanation, you just writing down your thoughts, and not using my questions as pointers.

Vivien
"In the seen, there is only the seen. In the heard, there is only the heard. In the sensed, there is only the sensed. You are located neither in this, nor in that, nor in any place between the two." - Buddha
http://fadingveiling.com/

User avatar
SKD108
Posts: 112
Joined: Mon Oct 07, 2019 6:44 pm

Re: The Tipping Point

Postby SKD108 » Tue Feb 11, 2020 1:01 am

Hi Vivien,

Thank you for all your help so far. Right now I need to take a break for various reasons. Would it be ok to pick uo again when I am ready?

Sandra

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Vivien
Posts: 4771
Joined: Sat Jun 07, 2014 3:07 am
Location: Australia

Re: The Tipping Point

Postby Vivien » Tue Feb 11, 2020 3:45 am

Yes, of course. Just post on this thread when you feel ready to continue.

Have a nice day,
Vivien
"In the seen, there is only the seen. In the heard, there is only the heard. In the sensed, there is only the sensed. You are located neither in this, nor in that, nor in any place between the two." - Buddha
http://fadingveiling.com/


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