friday night!

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nass
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Re: friday night!

Postby nass » Thu Oct 24, 2019 12:36 am

Hi Vivien,

I don't think I can answer clearly today. You were right, even though there isn't any sensation of the little me in the head, I do "feel" like I am behind the eyes; I've been looking into that a lot today and found nothing, as if anything out of my sight was completely non-existent, but still the "feeling" of "it's me who's looking" remains. So I'd continue with this a bit more, unless you say otherwise.

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Vivien
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Re: friday night!

Postby Vivien » Thu Oct 24, 2019 12:48 am

Hi nass,

You did a great looking.
I've been looking into that a lot today and found nothing, as if anything out of my sight was completely non-existent, but still the "feeling" of "it's me who's looking" remains.
OK, please keep the focus on the “feeling of it’s me who’s looking” during the day. Just feel this as often as possible, even if just for 10-30 seconds.

And while you FEEL it, investigate:

What is exactly at that location? What is there?
Can you find an ACTUAL ‘me’ there who is performing the act of looking?
What is it that you ACTUALLY FEEL there?


Vivien
The most profound discoveries arise from questioning the obvious.

Website: https://www.viviennovak.com/

Blog: https://fadingveiling.com/

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nass
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Re: friday night!

Postby nass » Thu Oct 24, 2019 10:17 pm

Hi Vivien,

it was easier to look yesterday because the feeling of "me" in the head was more apparent. Today it felt more forceful to ask myself "who's looking through the eyes", I couldn't tap into that sense, but at the same time answering "noone" felt too intellectual, and there was some resistance or annoyance about the process, which I tracked into the chest or solar plexus. So I'm starting to inquire about that with the same questions.

What is exactly at that location? What is there?
Can you find an ACTUAL ‘me’ there who is performing the act of looking?
What is it that you ACTUALLY FEEL there?
Right now there's nothing behind the eyes. Maybe it will get back tomorrow, when my "me" gets scared off again from the torso :)

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Vivien
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Re: friday night!

Postby Vivien » Fri Oct 25, 2019 12:22 am

Hi nass,
Right now there's nothing behind the eyes. Maybe it will get back tomorrow, when my "me" gets scared off again from the torso :)
Thank you for being honest about the fear. It’s important because fear can be a hindrance of going further. But actually, fear is nothing more than a protective mechanism, and it does its job well. There is a belief, a story somewhere about pain or negative consequences to seeing the illusion of the self. And the fear tries to protect you from these supposed negative consequences. So let’s find out what this story is about and see if they are real threats or not.

What I’d like you to do is to investigate this fear. Examine it closely. Feel it. Don’t try to fix it or solve it, just sit with it.
Ask the fear as if it were a some kind of entity:

What do you want to protect me from?

What is the ‘negative’ story, what would happen if the illusion of the self is seen through?

Observe what visual thoughts and stories come up ‘justifying’ its right to fear.

If you ignore the stories (thoughts) and visual thoughts what is BEHIND the fear?


Vivien
The most profound discoveries arise from questioning the obvious.

Website: https://www.viviennovak.com/

Blog: https://fadingveiling.com/

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nass
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Re: friday night!

Postby nass » Fri Oct 25, 2019 12:56 am

Hi Vivien,

I'm sorry, I mislead you with the words "scared off"... it was rather a joke about the poor "me" being chased from one place to another forever; that's also why I reply early. It doesn't feel scary, at this moment it's a funny game - as if the "I" was balancing on a high wire, between questions "how come you don't fall off?" and "what is there to fall?"
There's still something that makes me think (clumsy formulation, I know) that I am writing this message, but the process of looking or questioning continues well.

I really appreciate you for the time you put into talking to so many people and for the kind way of doing it.

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Vivien
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Re: friday night!

Postby Vivien » Fri Oct 25, 2019 1:00 am

Hi nass,
I really appreciate you for the time you put into talking to so many people and for the kind way of doing it.
You are very welcome :)
I'm sorry, I mislead you with the words "scared off"... it was rather a joke about the poor "me" being chased from one place to another forever
That’s ever better if there is no fear. But if it any time it comes up, please let me know, so we can have a look on it.
Right now there's nothing behind the eyes. Maybe it will get back tomorrow, when my "me" gets scared off again from the torso :)
OK, then please focus on the sensations in the torso. FEEL. Just feel.
What is there? What is felt there?


Please describe me this feeling as precisely as you can without using analogies, speculation or imagination.

Vivien
The most profound discoveries arise from questioning the obvious.

Website: https://www.viviennovak.com/

Blog: https://fadingveiling.com/

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nass
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Re: friday night!

Postby nass » Sat Oct 26, 2019 12:34 am

Hi Vivien,
OK, then please focus on the sensations in the torso. FEEL. Just feel.
What is there? What is felt there?
There's nothing. Maybe some tensions were associated with the self before, but when looking through everything, the "feeling of me" disappeared, or was never there, anyway, there's nothing to be found now.

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Vivien
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Re: friday night!

Postby Vivien » Sat Oct 26, 2019 12:48 am

Hi nass,
There's nothing. Maybe some tensions were associated with the self before, but when looking through everything, the "feeling of me" disappeared, or was never there, anyway, there's nothing to be found now.
Great! If it comes back, look again (not to make the sensation go away, but to check if there is a me in there :)

And is there a me/self in the head, looking through the eyes?
When you FEEL that spot, what do you find there?

Vivien
The most profound discoveries arise from questioning the obvious.

Website: https://www.viviennovak.com/

Blog: https://fadingveiling.com/

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nass
Posts: 49
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Re: friday night!

Postby nass » Sat Oct 26, 2019 1:11 am

And is there a me/self in the head, looking through the eyes?
When you FEEL that spot, what do you find there?
No, it didn't come back for now. I can report only a lot of thoughts. When I was focusing on the "feeling of me", it was clearer, now it's like thoughts are jumping all over the place, annoying me. But who is the I that is annoyed? I find only more thoughts.

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Vivien
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Re: friday night!

Postby Vivien » Sat Oct 26, 2019 1:31 am

Hi nass,

Some days ago, you wrote:
This one is not so clear. When writing the two last replies, I could see that it wasn't me who was having the thoughts, but now I'm back to the usual "I think", even though I know for sure that I have no control over the thoughts. I just believe that they appear to me.
Please point with your finger (literally) to the ‘me’ that thoughts appear to.
Where do you point at?


Vivien
The most profound discoveries arise from questioning the obvious.

Website: https://www.viviennovak.com/

Blog: https://fadingveiling.com/

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nass
Posts: 49
Joined: Wed Oct 02, 2019 5:58 pm

Re: friday night!

Postby nass » Sat Oct 26, 2019 1:48 am

Hey Vivien,
Please point with your finger (literally) to the ‘me’ that thoughts appear to.
Where do you point at?
I don't know where to point to.

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Vivien
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Re: friday night!

Postby Vivien » Sat Oct 26, 2019 1:58 am

Hi nass,

OK. I would like to ask you to search for this me that thoughts are appearing to.

Look everywhere.
Search through the whole body from head to toe.
Search through all the sensations.

Search through the whole head very thoroughly. The eyes, behind the yes, the throat, the forehead, the middle of the head, the back of the head, the top of the head, the left and the right side of the head, the face, look everywhere.

And also, search through thoughts and images too.
Don’t leave any stone unturned.

And when you search and searched and searched more, and look at every possible places countless times, let me know what you’ve find.

Vivien
The most profound discoveries arise from questioning the obvious.

Website: https://www.viviennovak.com/

Blog: https://fadingveiling.com/

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nass
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Joined: Wed Oct 02, 2019 5:58 pm

Re: friday night!

Postby nass » Mon Oct 28, 2019 12:09 am

just checking in, still looking :)

have a nice day

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Vivien
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Location: Australia

Re: friday night!

Postby Vivien » Mon Oct 28, 2019 12:16 am

All right, thank you for letting me know.
The most profound discoveries arise from questioning the obvious.

Website: https://www.viviennovak.com/

Blog: https://fadingveiling.com/

User avatar
nass
Posts: 49
Joined: Wed Oct 02, 2019 5:58 pm

Re: friday night!

Postby nass » Mon Oct 28, 2019 11:52 am

Hi Vivien,

so.. I did find some stuff - all imaginary :)
OK. I would like to ask you to search for this me that thoughts are appearing to.
They don't appear to nothing. Or they do appear to nothing. Or they just appear. It all has the same meaning. They do reference a self and other mental concepts. There's no difference in referencing something imaginary (ghost) and real (sensation).
(Now the thoughts are swirling around an idea of being always tightly attached to an experience (arising as a reaction), and never being able to influence the experience itself... as if the relation went only one way.)
And when you search and searched and searched more, and look at every possible places countless times, let me know what you’ve find.
Looking for an imaginary thing in the "real" world is futile, because it cannot be found. It's also useful, because it cannot be found. A thought would jump on any sensation of the body and scream "I have it, I have it!" (also "I'm tired of looking!" "oh, was it just a tension around the eyes and stomach? well, I felt that!")

That's where I'm at.


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