friday night!

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nass
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Re: friday night!

Postby nass » Sat Oct 19, 2019 1:37 am

I see the screen, I hear the clock, I feel fingertips and back. I can't make myself be fascinated just by wanting, sorry. If all it really took was just repeating "you're not LOOKING, LOOK, LOOK," then there probably wouldn't be a need for this forum.

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Anastacia42
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Re: friday night!

Postby Anastacia42 » Sat Oct 19, 2019 3:28 am

Hi,

I hear your frustration. It's understandable.

You may find it offensive, and yet it would be good to read the article below.

I have to say that you are wrong about looking & why there's a forum. This happens often enough that one of our senior guides wrote about it some years ago. Please read the article below.

https://www.liberationunleashed.com/res ... ar-seeker/

After you read that. you may choose to continue with me, or you may ask for a different guide or you may quit or give up. You're welcome to resume even if you stop.

All of us will tell you to LOOK. Maybe someone else can say it in a way you can hear.

Loving,
~ Stacy

"Not to know there is an alternative to being lost
in thought is to be a kind of prisoner."

~ Sam Harris

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nass
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Re: friday night!

Postby nass » Sat Oct 19, 2019 3:45 am

Maybe someone else can say it in a way you can hear.
I thought that was the point. But I'm probably wrong again.

I would like to continue with someone else.

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Anastacia42
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Re: friday night!

Postby Anastacia42 » Sat Oct 19, 2019 4:50 am

Hi nass

I've requested another guide for you. They'll reply here when someone is available.

You can do this.

Best to you!

Loving,
~ Stacy

"Not to know there is an alternative to being lost
in thought is to be a kind of prisoner."

~ Sam Harris

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nass
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Re: friday night!

Postby nass » Sat Oct 19, 2019 10:10 am

Thank you.

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Vivien
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Re: friday night!

Postby Vivien » Sun Oct 20, 2019 12:29 am

Hi nass,

My name is Vivien, and I’m happy to continue with your inquiry.

I’ve skimmed through the thread, and I have a simple question for you.

What the ‘I’ is for you?
What is the experience of being you?


Vivien
The most profound discoveries arise from questioning the obvious.

Website: https://www.viviennovak.com/

Blog: https://fadingveiling.com/

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nass
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Re: friday night!

Postby nass » Sun Oct 20, 2019 12:08 pm

Hi Vivien,

thank you so much for picking up the thread - and this fast!
What the ‘I’ is for you?
What is the experience of being you?
In everyday life I refer to "me" as to an object - the body with it's stories; I take myself for something real, a sensitive actor with free will. When looking closer, I can't find myself. Then I think there are just repeated thoughts about an "I" (at first I wrote "I is a repeated thought", but "thought about an I" sounds much better), it's a narration.
At this moment there's no experience of being me, there's experience of tensions (hunger and frowning) and thoughts.
But now again, there's "I'm sitting here on a chair". It's like going back and forth.

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nass
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Re: friday night!

Postby nass » Sun Oct 20, 2019 5:19 pm

hmm, it's actually not going back and forth. the thoughts about self don't have the same connotation as before. curious.

have a good morning!

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Vivien
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Re: friday night!

Postby Vivien » Sun Oct 20, 2019 11:46 pm

Hi nass,
thank you so much for picking up the thread - and this fast!
You are very welcome :)
In everyday life I refer to "me" as to an object - the body with it's stories; I take myself for something real, a sensitive actor with free will. When looking closer, I can't find myself
OK, let’s search a bit more for this seemingly real self.

We start with thoughts. I might give you similar exercises or questions you looked at before, but nevertheless, please look at them again with fresh eyes, as if you were doing it at the first time.

Actually, it’s the constant and repeated looking and looking and more looking that brings about the realization. Looking at the same thing again and again.

So I would like to ask you to always look AFRESH and never rely on the memory of a previous looking.
Can we agree on this?


Also, please look as often as you can during the day (hundred times). Even if it’s just for 10-30 seconds, but still look. Incorporating looking into your everyday life can be very useful.

Please sit on a chair doing nothing for a few minutes. Watch thoughts coming and going.

Can you trace a thought back to where it came?
In the same way, can you follow a thought to its destination?
Can you tell where thoughts come from and go to, without using any imagination or speculation?

Can you predict what will be your next thought, before the next thought appears?


Please repeat this exercise several times before replying.

Vivien
The most profound discoveries arise from questioning the obvious.

Website: https://www.viviennovak.com/

Blog: https://fadingveiling.com/

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nass
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Re: friday night!

Postby nass » Mon Oct 21, 2019 3:15 pm

Hi Vivien,
So I would like to ask you to always look AFRESH and never rely on the memory of a previous looking.
Can we agree on this?
Yes, I'll do my best.


When you ask me to look as often as I can, does that mean to look for the answer to the current question, or look for the I, or look at the actual experience?
Can you trace a thought back to where it came?
In the same way, can you follow a thought to its destination?
Can you tell where thoughts come from and go to, without using any imagination or speculation?
No, definitely not.
Can you predict what will be your next thought, before the next thought appears?
No.
Any attempts to predict are just more thoughts. And not mine :)

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Vivien
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Re: friday night!

Postby Vivien » Tue Oct 22, 2019 12:12 am

Hi nass,
When you ask me to look as often as I can, does that mean to look for the answer to the current question, or look for the I, or look at the actual experience?
Either investigate and look at the questions I give you that day (repeatedly again and again and again), or search for the I.
Any attempts to predict are just more thoughts. And not mine :)
Aren’t you the thinker of thoughts?

Try an experiment. Try to create a thought. Any thought, from scratch. What do you find?

Now try preventing a thought from appearing. Is it possible?


Vivien
The most profound discoveries arise from questioning the obvious.

Website: https://www.viviennovak.com/

Blog: https://fadingveiling.com/

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nass
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Re: friday night!

Postby nass » Tue Oct 22, 2019 1:00 am

Try an experiment. Try to create a thought. Any thought, from scratch. What do you find?

Now try preventing a thought from appearing. Is it possible?
These two are very obvious and easy to see every time I look. I have no control whatsoever. There's always a thought appearing by itself and only afterwards there come some I-thoughts claiming the action.

Aren’t you the thinker of thoughts?
This one is not so clear. When writing the two last replies, I could see that it wasn't me who was having the thoughts, but now I'm back to the usual "I think", even though I know for sure that I have no control over the thoughts. I just believe that they appear to me.
Right now I am having thoughts that are out of control and sensations that are just as well uncontrolled. It feels like it all happens to me. Ok, it's not a feeling. It's a thought. But it's not one thought, one can be recognized as just a thought... whatever. That's where I'm at.

Thank you for your time, Vivian!

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Vivien
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Re: friday night!

Postby Vivien » Tue Oct 22, 2019 3:45 am

Hi nass,
These two are very obvious and easy to see every time I look. I have no control whatsoever. There's always a thought appearing by itself and only afterwards there come some I-thoughts claiming the action.
Great :)
Right now I am having thoughts that are out of control and sensations that are just as well uncontrolled. It feels like it all happens to me. Ok, it's not a feeling. It's a thought. But it's not one thought, one can be recognized as just a thought... whatever. That's where I'm at.
Are you sure that there are no feelings/sensations involved?

Please look for the FEELING of me, to which thoughts and sensations are happening TO.

Where does this FEELING of me exactly?
Is it in the stomach?
Or in the chest?
In the throat perhaps?
Or Behind the eyes?
Or at the middle of the head?
Or maybe closer at the back of the scull?
Where is exactly the ‘feeling of me’ to which sensations and thoughts are happening TO?



Vivien
The most profound discoveries arise from questioning the obvious.

Website: https://www.viviennovak.com/

Blog: https://fadingveiling.com/

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nass
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Re: friday night!

Postby nass » Tue Oct 22, 2019 12:21 pm

Hi Vivien,
Are you sure that there are no feelings/sensations involved?
I'm sure. When I feel pain, there's the sensation plus a thought that it's me who's feeling it, but there's no sensation of me, only the thought about it.

Let me do the exercise anyway, to make sure that I'm sure :)
Where is this FEELING of me exactly? Is it in the stomach? Or in the chest? In the throat perhaps? Or Behind the eyes? Or at the middle of the head? Or maybe closer at the back of the scull? Where is exactly the ‘feeling of me’ to which sensations and thoughts are happening TO?
If I am to point to "me", I point to the chest; if asked where is the core of "me", I'd say behind the eyes. But no, no, no, there's definitely no feeling of me, it's just a figure of speech, an appropriation... and not even that, that's another thought that suggests there's someone.

So what's missing? Hmm, I notice the expectation of having less thoughts about the I. But it makes no difference, does it. There's all this everything going on no matter if I think I am or not. Ok, that's it for now :)

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Vivien
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Re: friday night!

Postby Vivien » Tue Oct 22, 2019 11:39 pm

Hi nass,
If I am to point to "me", I point to the chest; if asked where is the core of "me", I'd say behind the eyes. But no, no, no, there's definitely no feeling of me, it's just a figure of speech, an appropriation... and not even that, that's another thought that suggests there's someone.
I would like to ask you to look for this ‘core of me behind the eyes’, even when it’s just a figure of speech.

You have to actually SEE and FEEL what is actually there behind the eyes.

We normally believe that we are inside of this body, and looking out of the eyes, and observing the world out there.
So we are here inside the body and the world is out there (outside the body).

Right? Is this how you feel yourself to be? Looking out through the eyes, observing the world out there?


Please look at the display before you.
Now, could you tell me where you are looking at it FROM?

WHAT is there? What do you find there?
Do you find a seer there?


Vivien
The most profound discoveries arise from questioning the obvious.

Website: https://www.viviennovak.com/

Blog: https://fadingveiling.com/


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