friday night!

Welcome to the main forum. When you are ready to start a conversation, register and once your application is processed a guide will come to talk to you.
This is one-on-one style forum, one thread per green member.
User avatar
nass
Posts: 49
Joined: Wed Oct 02, 2019 5:58 pm

Re: friday night!

Postby nass » Sun Oct 13, 2019 1:43 pm

Hi,
Try your best to COMPLETELY ignore what they are saying and just notice how they appear without you doing anything at all.
I don't think I was able to do that - to notice that there's a thought, but not to notice the content. It was rather by noticing a content appearing that I knew there was a thought.
Where are they coming from and going to?
Nowhere, they were just appearing and disappearing.
Did you do anything to make a particular thought or thoughts appear?
No.
Could you have done anything to make a different thought appear at that exact moment instead?
No.
Somewhere around this question it started to be more difficult to follow - they all ask "can you...", therefore implying I can observe the thoughts, which always introduced another - me - thought.
Can you predict your next thought?
No.
Although there was for example a thought that in one minute, there will still be thoughts about a bear - and there were. It was a kind of a prediction, though it can't be said "I predicted it".
Can you select from a range of thoughts to have only pleasant thoughts?
Can you choose not to have painful, negative or fearful thoughts?
Can you pick and choose any kind of thought?
Is it possible to prevent a thought from appearing?
If it's said there's only looking, hearing, feeling, tasting, smelling and thoughts arising, how can you ask about selecting, choosing, picking... any kind of doing? It all comes down to deciding and free will, which can't be directly experienced in any way.
It seems that thought has some logical ordered appearance, but look carefully and just notice if there is an organised sequence?
No.
Or is that just another thought that says ‘these thoughts are in sequence’ or “they take content from previous thought”, or that ‘one thought follows another thought’?
I can't imagine how a sequence could be perceived. Even if it was a stream of thoughts/numbers going 1, 2, 3... ad infinitum, labelling it as a sequence would be just another thought.

You see there's a lot of thinking anyway. But it's impossible to answer a question such as "can you pick a thought, given that there's no you and no doing?"

Thanks

User avatar
Anastacia42
Posts: 1853
Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2016 3:04 am
Contact:

Re: friday night!

Postby Anastacia42 » Sun Oct 13, 2019 4:01 pm

Good morning!

I gave you this thought exercise next because you seemed to get stuck on seeming meaning in the sports video exercise.
a rider had the commentary streamed to his earpiece (which sometimes they do), the race would have a different development. So although the commentary isn't necessary, it can seemingly influence the happening. But now I imagine we can't mix the external commentary with the happening itself, because if it was heard (e.g. by the riders), it would just become part of the happening and there would be a new "outer" commentary arising. It seems clearer now, althought it points back to my questions from last night
The key here is "seemingly influence." Does it really? Even if they hear it, can you prove influence?

I don't think I was able to do that - to notice that there's a thought, but not to notice the content. It was rather by noticing a content appearing that I knew there was a thought
It might be more accurate to say, "notice and then IGNORE." But your questions all come from thinking. JUST LOOK & these questions will answer themselves (without being edited), I promise. Well, not 100%. Some people never let go of thinking & analyzing, so they never SEE.
they all ask "can you...", therefore implying I can observe the thoughts, which always introduced another - me - thought
We could use passive voice, asking "can it be predicted?" Wouldn't the answer be the same? Pronouns are only a convenience. Again, that's coming from thinking & analyzing. Can you let go of these & just LOOK?
If it's said there's only looking, hearing, feeling, tasting, smelling and thoughts arising, how can you ask about selecting, choosing, picking... any kind of doing? It all comes down to deciding and free will, which can't be directly experienced in any way.
Correct! It is, however, not just "said."

LOOK. Don't think. Find the truth of it. That's what you're here for.
labelling it as a sequence would be just another thought.
Also correct!

Now, let's go deeper into this choice, decision, control, intention & free will bit.

LOOK Find the "light & giggly" answer.

Palm Flipping Exercise

1. Hold a hand in front of you; palm turned down.

2. Now turn the palm up. And down...and up and so on.


Watch like a hawk.

Don't go to thoughts – examine your direct experience.

Do this as many times as you like, and each time inquire:

How is the movement controlled?

Does a thought control it?

Can a ‘controller’ of any description be located?

How is the decision made to turn the hand over? Track any decision point when a thought MADE THE DECISION to turn the hand over and the hand turns over immediately.

Who or what chose which hand - the left or right hand for the exercise?

Can you find a separate individual or anything that is choosing when to turn the palm up or down?

Again, please quote, then answer every question separately.


Loving,
~ Stacy

"Not to know there is an alternative to being lost
in thought is to be a kind of prisoner."

~ Sam Harris

User avatar
nass
Posts: 49
Joined: Wed Oct 02, 2019 5:58 pm

Re: friday night!

Postby nass » Sun Oct 13, 2019 5:53 pm

The key here is "seemingly influence." Does it really? Even if they hear it, can you prove influence?
Depends what you mean by "prove". In science we'd create a null hypothesis that audio input has no influence over the behavior of the riders; the riders would be instructed to go left on the crossroad and we'd tell half of them (through the earpiece) to go right. Based on the sample size we'd be more or less sure that there is an influence and in normal human language we'd say that it was proved.

We could use passive voice, asking "can it be predicted?" Wouldn't the answer be the same? Pronouns are only a convenience. Again, that's coming from thinking & analyzing. Can you let go of these & just LOOK?
I imagine it's helpful to avoid the pronouns and/or asking about one's capability. When you ask me if "I can let go", it triggers thoughts about the (in)ability to let go and loops of I-thoughts. When later you say "Look, don't think," it's way easier to digest.

How is the movement controlled?
I don't know, I can't find any control. There's not even a movement being experienced, movement must be a content of thought. Ok, that's thinking again.

Does a thought control it?
Not within my DE.

Can a ‘controller’ of any description be located?
No.

How is the decision made to turn the hand over? Track any decision point when a thought MADE THE DECISION to turn the hand over and the hand turns over immediately.
The decision is just a thought, so it just appears. There's no link in DE between the thought and the action.

Who or what chose which hand - the left or right hand for the exercise?
There doesn't seem to be any choice, so noone to choose either, not in DE.

Can you find a separate individual or anything that is choosing when to turn the palm up or down?
No.


I had another thought about the DE - where would you put e.g. UV radiation? It cannot be seen or felt, but being exposed to it, a body develops redness, blisters, pain.

Thanks!

User avatar
nass
Posts: 49
Joined: Wed Oct 02, 2019 5:58 pm

Re: friday night!

Postby nass » Sun Oct 13, 2019 9:43 pm

(I'm trying the flipping exercise with my senses now (switching between seeing, hearing, touching...). It seems to work the same way, without a controler. Do you have an exercise to see clearly whether different AEs happen simultaneously or if they are experienced continuously? It seems that they all appear at the same time, but AE suggests there's always only one at a time.)

User avatar
Anastacia42
Posts: 1853
Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2016 3:04 am
Contact:

Re: friday night!

Postby Anastacia42 » Mon Oct 14, 2019 12:28 am

For a moment take note of exactly what is being experienced in this moment: Notice all sound, all sensation, all smell, all taste, all colour. Notice how you're making absolutely no effort to be aware of them. And notice that you're not making them happen. You're not conducting the orchestra of experience that you're aware of. And notice that thought is exactly the same as the rest of experience. You're effortlessly aware of it, but you're not orchestrating it. You're not even orchestrating the thoughts which say that you're able to orchestrate thoughts.


How does it feel to notice this?
~ Stacy

"Not to know there is an alternative to being lost
in thought is to be a kind of prisoner."

~ Sam Harris

User avatar
nass
Posts: 49
Joined: Wed Oct 02, 2019 5:58 pm

Re: friday night!

Postby nass » Mon Oct 14, 2019 8:33 am

It feels light, effortless, free, relaxing.

User avatar
Anastacia42
Posts: 1853
Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2016 3:04 am
Contact:

Re: friday night!

Postby Anastacia42 » Mon Oct 14, 2019 4:06 pm

Good morning,
I had another thought about the DE - where would you put e.g. UV radiation? It cannot be seen or felt, but being exposed to it, a body develops redness, blisters, pain.
You can stop at "I had another thought..." We are not interested in those here.

Most of your questions are distracting you from LOOKING.

They will answer themselves when you see. In the meantime, let's just focus on LOOKING. That may seem harsh, but it is the only way. Questions are the mind's way of holding on & distracting you from what is right in front of you. Ignore them for now. If they still seem important and the end, they will still be there.


For a moment take note of exactly what is being experienced in this moment: Notice all sound, all sensation, all smell, all taste, all colour. Notice how you're making absolutely no effort to be aware of them. And notice that you're not making them happen. You're not conducting the orchestra of experience that you're aware of. And notice that thought is exactly the same as the rest of experience. You're effortlessly aware of it, but you're not orchestrating it. You're not even orchestrating the thoughts which say that you're able to orchestrate thoughts.
It feels light, effortless, free, relaxing.
Good. Stay with that for the next couple of days. Notice in this way as often as you can.

Have I mentioned that when I was guided here that I was given only one exercise? It was to try to find any boundary between my butt and the chair. That did it.

I mention this because often we want "more, more, more" and they don't sink in. Going deeply into one exercise is all it takes. No more are required.

The reason I give several and in the order that I do, is so that cognition can keep up with experience. For decades, I had seeing experiences without a true context. I have noted that Christians think they see Christ. Buddhists think they know Buddha, Hindus may see one of their pantheon. Whatever context the mind has, tends to color the experience. Those things, however, are no more real than "self." The pointing exercises I use help you to avoid that pitfall.

So. Sink into the feeling of this exercise. Just allow it to BE.

For a moment take note of exactly what is being experienced in this moment: Notice all sound, all sensation, all smell, all taste, all colour. Notice how you're making absolutely no effort to be aware of them. And notice that you're not making them happen. You're not conducting the orchestra of experience that you're aware of. And notice that thought is exactly the same as the rest of experience. You're effortlessly aware of it, but you're not orchestrating it. You're not even orchestrating the thoughts which say that you're able to orchestrate thoughts.

Do check in each day with a short report on anything experienced in Seeing, Hearing, Feeling, Touching & Tasting or Thought Arising. However, please do not analyze the exercise or ask questions about UV rays right now. It isn't going to take you were you want to go. OK?

Please also watch this video:

http://www.liberationunleashed.com/reso ... h-honesty/

and this one, please:

http://www.liberationunleashed.com/reso ... n-meaning/

Thanks & much love,
~ Stacy

"Not to know there is an alternative to being lost
in thought is to be a kind of prisoner."

~ Sam Harris

User avatar
nass
Posts: 49
Joined: Wed Oct 02, 2019 5:58 pm

Re: friday night!

Postby nass » Mon Oct 14, 2019 6:38 pm

Do check in each day with a short report on anything experienced in Seeing, Hearing, Feeling, Touching & Tasting or Thought Arising.
seeing: pavement and phone, simply = colours
hearing: falling tone, cars, simply = sound
feeling: butt on the seat, chest expanding and contracting, cold, simply = sensation
touching: phone, racket, simply = sensation
thought arising: thoughts about badminton, anger and cold, simply = thoughts

Also I resent you for your response.
Thanks.

User avatar
Anastacia42
Posts: 1853
Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2016 3:04 am
Contact:

Re: friday night!

Postby Anastacia42 » Mon Oct 14, 2019 7:47 pm

Hi nass,

Ah, I don't mean for you to repeat that exercise. Hmm, how do I explain? Describe in sensory terms what it was like to do it each day, the way you did before with "It feels light, effortless, free, relaxing."

That may seem confusing, but all 4 of those words referred to your felt experience more than to content of thought. That is what would be good to report.
Also I resent you for your response.
Thanks.
"Resent" was a little ambiguous.

Do you mean you "resent" the response, as in you are offended by it? Or do you mean you "re-sent" it as in sent it again?

Thanks,
Stacy
~ Stacy

"Not to know there is an alternative to being lost
in thought is to be a kind of prisoner."

~ Sam Harris

User avatar
nass
Posts: 49
Joined: Wed Oct 02, 2019 5:58 pm

Re: friday night!

Postby nass » Mon Oct 14, 2019 10:30 pm

Hi Stacy,

now I find our exchange very funny, it's full of misunderstandings :)

Ok, so, as I understand it now, during the day I'll pay attention to my senses and not to content of thoughts, and then will report what it "felt like".

And I meant resent as in being angry; it's gone now. Thanks for the clarifications,!

User avatar
Anastacia42
Posts: 1853
Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2016 3:04 am
Contact:

Re: friday night!

Postby Anastacia42 » Mon Oct 14, 2019 11:59 pm

Great. You've got it.

Relax & have fun with it!
~ Stacy

"Not to know there is an alternative to being lost
in thought is to be a kind of prisoner."

~ Sam Harris

User avatar
nass
Posts: 49
Joined: Wed Oct 02, 2019 5:58 pm

Re: friday night!

Postby nass » Wed Oct 16, 2019 3:20 pm

It always feels calm and relaxing. I have quite a bit of work these days and I get lost in thoughts a lot. I'll continue with the exercise.

User avatar
Anastacia42
Posts: 1853
Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2016 3:04 am
Contact:

Re: friday night!

Postby Anastacia42 » Wed Oct 16, 2019 11:27 pm

Good, nass!

Your response tells me you are LOOKING. This is what it feels like to be in the moment looking at what is "true" for lack of a better word.

This is how you want to LOOK.

Notice your responses are short and not long thought-things. Excellent! Sure, they can be longer at times *and* they will reflect only what is SEEN, not thinking. Focus on what you See, Hear, Feel, Touch and Taste. That will take you farther. Note that Thoughts Arise. Let them pass by. Their content has no importance.

Please continue & post tomorrow. Perhaps you will SEE. You seem to be having glimpses. Or we'll do another exercise.

Much love,
~ Stacy

"Not to know there is an alternative to being lost
in thought is to be a kind of prisoner."

~ Sam Harris

User avatar
nass
Posts: 49
Joined: Wed Oct 02, 2019 5:58 pm

Re: friday night!

Postby nass » Fri Oct 18, 2019 11:26 pm

I don't have much to report. Paying attention to my senses became some kind of a boring routine. Frustrating.

User avatar
Anastacia42
Posts: 1853
Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2016 3:04 am
Contact:

Re: friday night!

Postby Anastacia42 » Sat Oct 19, 2019 1:04 am

Bored?

We can only be bored if we are *thinking* and not LOOKING.

This is what we're going for:

“What is meditation?

Pure fascination with this moment, exactly as it is. Not adding anything. Not taking anything away. No goal. No seeking. No meditator.”

Jeff Foster

Can you "go there?" LOOK

Loving,
~ Stacy

"Not to know there is an alternative to being lost
in thought is to be a kind of prisoner."

~ Sam Harris


Return to “THE GATE”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 1 guest