Swimming circles in my own little (intellectual) pond

Welcome to the main forum. When you are ready to start a conversation, register and once your application is processed a guide will come to talk to you.
This is one-on-one style forum, one thread per green member.
User avatar
Ilona
Site Admin
Posts: 7937
Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2011 1:57 pm
Location: Lithuania
Contact:

Re: Swimming circles in my own little (intellectual) pond

Postby Ilona » Thu Sep 26, 2019 6:13 am

Dear baba, Thank you for comments. I have to ask you to stick to your thread with your guide. This forum is designed for one on one conversations, it’s not discussion thread. If you like to talk with me we can on Facebook or on Skype.
Love.

User avatar
GJG
Posts: 20
Joined: Mon Sep 09, 2019 10:37 am
Location: Netherlands

Re: Swimming circles in my own little (intellectual) pond

Postby GJG » Fri Sep 27, 2019 10:19 pm

When the search intensifies it seems the seeker is also experienced more intensively. At that time there definely appears to be something here and I am convinced somehow it is me. This is the me who wants to know, the seeking me. But when I start looking for me I keep on finding nothing. How many times do I need to see there is nothing to be found to finally be confinced there is really nothing to be found, this is so frustrating.... Feeling like a donkey bumping his head against the same stone over and over again.
On the other hand there are times when the seeking relaxes and there is seeing without a seer. This is difficult to describe. It is like being intimate with what is being looked at, what is experienced. The room, objects within it, sounds, etc. are not separated from me at all. It is also empty. A word I have seen used before but never really understood. Using it now doens't really get it either but it is as close as I can get, interesting... It is very very subtile but when the mind interferes division is introduced. Mind says: "oh, this is it", or the opposite: "this can't be it", or: "you are just fooling yourself". Thanks mind ;-)
By the way, it really helps writing these things down. It somehow gives more clarity. I was a bit skeptic about wrting things down initially but start seeing the true value of it now. Thanks for listening.
Love,
Geert Jan

User avatar
Ilona
Site Admin
Posts: 7937
Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2011 1:57 pm
Location: Lithuania
Contact:

Re: Swimming circles in my own little (intellectual) pond

Postby Ilona » Sat Sep 28, 2019 6:20 am

When the search intensifies it seems the seeker is also experienced more intensively. At that time there definely appears to be something here and I am convinced somehow it is me. This is the me who wants to know, the seeking me. But when I start looking for me I keep on finding nothing. How many times do I need to see there is nothing to be found to finally be confinced there is really nothing to be found, this is so frustrating.... Feeling like a donkey bumping his head against the same stone over and over again.
Yes, when search comes, the seeker gets created. The story about searching needs the main character, so the story goes about me, the seeker, looking for something. And when you look at the me/ the seeker, there is nothing there.

So tell me, where is the me when there is no story About a me? Does this me come and go? Is it a thought, sensation or a feeling? Are you a thought, sensation or a feeling? Or are you seeing those arise and go away?

The shift is from looking for to looking at. Once attention goes onto looking at what is, there is noticing of what is. There is no seeking, what is is already here. The actuality, the intimacy, the presence.

It’s a bit like Santa story. Does a kid need to go to the North Pole to look for Santa? Or he knows it’s fiction, a story about a dude, that does not exist?

And is there still a slight belief that something can come in and seek? Or is it clear, that me is a product of the imagination, that shows up in the story about a me, the seeker? Take a look, see for yourself. Can you see an absence of an imaginary character? Is it possible to see no-me? Or what is seen is that which is?

Yes, writing helps a lot to see what ideas run in the mind.
Love.

User avatar
GJG
Posts: 20
Joined: Mon Sep 09, 2019 10:37 am
Location: Netherlands

Re: Swimming circles in my own little (intellectual) pond

Postby GJG » Wed Oct 02, 2019 4:10 pm

I'm looking (deeply) into the questions you've posted here, looking into the book: "Look!" (which is great by the way), but seem to be still overlooking something. Noticing when I'm looking there is hope of finding. When I keep on looking I will ultimately find and therefore is "what I am looking for" somewhere in the future and I seem to be running behind it. I'm near but just not there yet. I know I am tricking myself because the real looking is the instantaneous looking, the looking that is happening right now. But as the doer all I can do is keep on looking. And the doer gets very confused about how to get out of this. Anyway, just wanted to share what is currently happening here.
Love,
GJ

User avatar
Ilona
Site Admin
Posts: 7937
Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2011 1:57 pm
Location: Lithuania
Contact:

Re: Swimming circles in my own little (intellectual) pond

Postby Ilona » Thu Oct 03, 2019 6:30 am

There is a difference between looking for and looking at.
Look at.
What do you find?
There is a feeling of hope...
there is a sense of waiting...
look at.

What else are you noticing?

Look at the doer,
Is there a doer?

Love.

User avatar
GJG
Posts: 20
Joined: Mon Sep 09, 2019 10:37 am
Location: Netherlands

Re: Swimming circles in my own little (intellectual) pond

Postby GJG » Sun Oct 13, 2019 8:19 pm

It's been a while. A long time friend just passed away. The last week of her life was a painful struggle. Not so much physically but mostly mentally. She could not let go of the things in her life, her cats, her house, financial issues, etc. She worried a lot even though I assumed responsibility over her main objects of worries. She told me there were still so many things she wanted to do, she needed at least another 40 years. A day before she died she said she was not ready to go. She had a very strong will.
I keep on looking inside, asking 'the questions' to find clarity about myself. Because of the situation of my friend who could not let go I started to wonder about me. Am I really able to completely let go (or maybe better, allow this to happen)? Is what I am pursuing as 'me' not like the death of 'me'? Is it the fear of death that brought me to this quest, and is it now holding me back? Am I in reality trying to escape death which I still seem to be able to do as my friend was not?
I do notice some tiny changes lately which I could describe using words like 'space', 'nothing is happening', ' everything is happening by itself', 'absence', 'no separation'. Nothing spectacular. I do not have the feeling I passed the gateless Gate. And how would I actually know if it would happen? I do not want to fool myself... I'm counting on it to be so obvious I will recognize it immediately. An expecation probably.

User avatar
GJG
Posts: 20
Joined: Mon Sep 09, 2019 10:37 am
Location: Netherlands

Re: Swimming circles in my own little (intellectual) pond

Postby GJG » Tue Oct 15, 2019 8:49 am

Ha ha, I'm fooling myself by assuming myself as a person who may be fooling himself. And I see others as others because I take myself as an 'other', a separate person. Looking into the eyes of 'others' I can see this is not true.

User avatar
Ilona
Site Admin
Posts: 7937
Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2011 1:57 pm
Location: Lithuania
Contact:

Re: Swimming circles in my own little (intellectual) pond

Postby Ilona » Thu Oct 17, 2019 7:33 am

Thank you for sharing. Sorry to hear about your loss of a friend.
How would you know if gate is crossed? Everything becomes clear, no more seeking. It’s obvious that there is no i to cross a gate and there is no gate. That’s when you stop seeking what to do to realise and rest in being, seeing that all is happening. And exploration continues, things continue to arise, life happens as it did, only it is met differently.

When you say that you take yourself to be a separate person, separate from what exactly?
How do you know there is a separate person?
Where is the sense of separateness?
Where is the line that separates you from the world?

Explore this and write what you notice.

Love.

User avatar
GJG
Posts: 20
Joined: Mon Sep 09, 2019 10:37 am
Location: Netherlands

Re: Swimming circles in my own little (intellectual) pond

Postby GJG » Tue Nov 26, 2019 5:48 pm

Let me begin to answer your previous questions. There is no separate thing/person here. Investigation the borders of myself only leads to finding mental images and thinking about borders that are supposed to be there. I cannot find a line of separation anywhere other than what sensations and thoughts seem to tell me. What I do notice are short moments of 'blankness', flashes of absence, difficult to describe. There are feeling of a diffuse fear, vulnerability and insecurity too. I some how feel I am in the right place having them and need to further explore, but there is an instinct pull back also.
Love,
GJ

User avatar
Ilona
Site Admin
Posts: 7937
Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2011 1:57 pm
Location: Lithuania
Contact:

Re: Swimming circles in my own little (intellectual) pond

Postby Ilona » Thu Nov 28, 2019 11:32 am

Thank you for answering.
What happens when you meet hose feelings of insecurity and vulnerability? You don’t need to do anything about them, they do not come up to be fixed or solved. All they want is to be felt, allowed, noticed, accepted as they are. The pulling back is a protection mechanism a, which says that feeling those feelings is not safe. But have a look, it’s ok to feel what you feel whatever that is.

What is behind the feeling of insecurity?

Love.

User avatar
GJG
Posts: 20
Joined: Mon Sep 09, 2019 10:37 am
Location: Netherlands

Re: Swimming circles in my own little (intellectual) pond

Postby GJG » Mon Jan 20, 2020 1:01 pm

Dear Ilona, I guess I'm completely stuck ... Seems like the same old story is repeating itself. I fanatically pursue liberation/freedom by sitting down each day asking myself the questions around the Self. Practicing inquiry in nearly everything I do during the day. Even during the night when I wake up. Reading your replies to my earlier posts, the quotes App, doing the exercises. There is a very strong wanting this but I guess this wanting is strengthening the (fake) self. While practicing this I sometimes notice a strong underlying contraction throughout my entire body (feels like a strong contained energetic happening) trying to tell me I am the body. On an intellectual level it is all clear to me and I keep on finding no 'looker' over and over again. So when will 'I' finally realize there is no personal 'I' .... There's still a strong assumption something will have to happen so I finally see. Another thing I notice is I keep on trying to escape from what is going on right now. There seems to be a link to the physical contraction I described above, I want to get rid of this inner tension. I thing I need to relax somehow at a very deep level to be able to stay with what is going on but that's very hard. Finally I have the tendency do this on my own, which I guess is right because no one can do this quest for me. Hence the limited number of posts here on LU.
Love,
GJ

User avatar
Ilona
Site Admin
Posts: 7937
Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2011 1:57 pm
Location: Lithuania
Contact:

Re: Swimming circles in my own little (intellectual) pond

Postby Ilona » Thu Jan 23, 2020 8:07 am

Good to hear from you. And you are right, no one can do this for you, it’s an inside job. But I’m here to assist. When you write to me, I can give you questions that you would not come up with by yourself. So use this opportunity to bounce your thoughts to me.

All the inquiry comes down to one question, is there a separate self?
And you don’t need to go and look for that self endlessly, it’s not something that can be ever found. Same way as a kid does not need to go up north to look if Santa is real.

Separate self is a concept.
Can a concept wake up?
Does anything need to happen? Then what are you waiting for? aliveness, beingness, awareness is already here, ever present. Look at what IS. What is here now? Underneath all thinking about thoughts.

The tension, what does it want? You can ask it. Tell me what comes up.

Love.

User avatar
GJG
Posts: 20
Joined: Mon Sep 09, 2019 10:37 am
Location: Netherlands

Re: Swimming circles in my own little (intellectual) pond

Postby GJG » Sun Feb 02, 2020 9:10 am

The tension has to do with fear, fear of falling apart, of becoming nothing. As I've started to see this in the last few days this tension is releasing slowly. What's still puzzeling me is what you write about 'what IS here underneath thinking about thoughts'. Realizing this is more thinking about thoughts but aren't these thoughts also part of what is? I don't seem to be able to see it like that yet though. Some thoughts can really take me into the 'me' especially when they have a strong emotional charge, like persistent thought patterns about lost love.

User avatar
GJG
Posts: 20
Joined: Mon Sep 09, 2019 10:37 am
Location: Netherlands

Re: Swimming circles in my own little (intellectual) pond

Postby GJG » Mon Feb 03, 2020 4:17 pm

The tension is about losing control ...

User avatar
GJG
Posts: 20
Joined: Mon Sep 09, 2019 10:37 am
Location: Netherlands

Re: Swimming circles in my own little (intellectual) pond

Postby GJG » Mon Feb 03, 2020 4:47 pm

Loss of security


Return to “THE GATE”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests