out of fear into the unknown

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HanumanMark
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Re: out of fear into the unknown

Postby HanumanMark » Mon Dec 16, 2019 12:21 am

hi Ilona,

Thank you for your question, yes when I reread my last post there are 2 conflicting answers.
Which is it: Mark is a label or a player?
From experience Mark can't be found as an entity, he's a character in the play/film of a life, and like all characters he didn't write the story nor does he control how the story is interpreted. It all happens spontaneously. Some feelings of doership are there though.

Love

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Ilona
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Re: out of fear into the unknown

Postby Ilona » Mon Dec 16, 2019 7:45 am

Is it a feeling of doership or idea of doership?

If you look at a big cloud and it starts raining, is there a doer of rain? What made the cloud start raining?

Explore this, and write to me.
Love.

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HanumanMark
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Re: out of fear into the unknown

Postby HanumanMark » Sun Dec 22, 2019 3:39 pm

Hi Ilona,

thank you for your relpy and pointers. It has been busy this last week ... would have liked to reply earlier.

Is it a feeling of doership or idea of doership?
The doership is based in thought, and the thoughts generate feelings ... of anticipation, tension, pleasure, relief etc.
If you look at a big cloud and it starts raining, is there a doer of rain? What made the cloud start raining?
Most of the time, my thoughts of doership are to do with a feeling of separation, that nothing will happen if the energy that is Mark, releases and subject-object become one.
Your example reminds me of non separation, looking at the cloud because the cloud is ready to rain. There is no doer of rain, but the looking and the raining are the same mouvement.

The perspective that comes up for me, is that maybe in the one mouvement it's ok that Mark is contracted and the mouvement of life in which he is contact happens as it just does. Mark is a fictional character anyway.

Merry Christmas Ilona !

Love and gratitude

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Ilona
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Re: out of fear into the unknown

Postby Ilona » Mon Dec 23, 2019 7:41 am

Merry Christmas to you too!

What do you mean by that nothing will happen?
What are you making happen?
Look around right this moment, what are you making happen? What is not given?

:)

Much love.

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HanumanMark
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Re: out of fear into the unknown

Postby HanumanMark » Mon Dec 30, 2019 11:14 am

Hello Ilona,

I had a kind of whistling sound on my ears early this morning, when this happens it feels like a connection with someone ... this morning I thought of you ... and that I I hadn't yet replied.
What do you mean by that nothing will happen?
What are you making happen?
Look around right this moment, what are you making happen? What is not given?
When I look for an I, there is just silence, and yet the presence here has a quality of being and existing. This presence is used to thinking that it's doing. The illusion made by thoughts creating a story hasn't gone away. So I hear you, when you ask 'what am I making happen', but it still feels like this presence needs volition to keep the story going. How does the volition go away, by itself when it's seen that it's action is an illusion ? Or does the volition belong in the story and this presence moves out of the story ?

Thank you so much for your pointers to the truth,

Love

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Ilona
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Re: out of fear into the unknown

Postby Ilona » Tue Dec 31, 2019 7:41 am

Sounds like you are tying or hoping for the story to go away. But what is wrong with the story being told? Leave the story alone, it keeps going. Question is are the thoughts telling the truth 100%?

You can notice thoughts telling a story, you can also notice what is here besides the story - colours, sounds, sensations, smells, taste, all that is happening right here right now. Does that experience need a story to be happening?

Have fun investigating.

Love.

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HanumanMark
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Re: out of fear into the unknown

Postby HanumanMark » Mon Jan 06, 2020 10:37 am

Hi Ilona,

Thank you for your reply and your pertinent pointers.

Yes I'm fed up of the story a lot of the time, and the thoughts associated with it aren't uplifting for me. Most of my attention has been going to awareness of the moment, but negative thoughts have have come up too and that has brought the kind of anxiety I was feeling before back again. That's why it's nice to read your message and have another perspective of what is going on for me.

Leave the story alone, it keeps going. Question is are the thoughts telling the truth 100%?
The thoughts aren't telling the truth. They are thoughts which all have the perspective of the past and project a future based on the past and my fears.

Observing all that's going on ouside the story

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HanumanMark
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Re: out of fear into the unknown

Postby HanumanMark » Mon Jan 06, 2020 10:45 am

... and that is more peaceful even though there is awareness of fear, uncertainty etc.

Love

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Ilona
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Re: out of fear into the unknown

Postby Ilona » Tue Jan 07, 2020 2:23 pm

What if fear is a friend? And it is asking to be met as a friend?

Here is something for you to consider.
http://markedeternal.blogspot.com/2014/ ... n.html?m=1

It may be quite interesting to explore the fear form a different angle. What is behind it? What is that needs protection?

What do you find?

Love.

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HanumanMark
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Re: out of fear into the unknown

Postby HanumanMark » Wed Jan 08, 2020 8:45 am

Hello Ilona,

thanks for your post ...

explore the fear form a different angle. What is behind it? What is that needs protection?
I'm investigating what's behind the locked door ... will get back to you soon.

Love

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Ilona
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Re: out of fear into the unknown

Postby Ilona » Tue Jan 14, 2020 9:07 am

How is it going?
Hope you are not getting stuck and if you are, I’m here to assist to move past it.

Love.

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HanumanMark
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Re: out of fear into the unknown

Postby HanumanMark » Wed Jan 15, 2020 2:41 pm

Hello Ilona,

thanks for your so gentle and generous message.

Yes, I do feel stuck. The fear that is felt coming from thought is debilitating LOL. Mark's freelance work has almost completely stopped, his financial and emotional instability is interfering with this inquiry process. I know that fictional characters don't have emotions and that Mark's worries and what is experienced here is connected, but what is experienced is like being paralysed.
explore the fear form a different angle. What is behind it? What is that needs protection?
I can see that the fear wants to protect the belief that - Mark controls his life, is a separate entity, a perceiver, and that Mark has urgent things to do to maintain a certain level of material comfort and feel secure. Behind the fear there are other possibilities, other ways of being. It would be tempting if an 'I' could choose a story ... to see Mark's existing way of living collapse and then have him create a new one .... but experiencing the collapse is unpleasant so hopefully there will be a gentler change.

I feel stuck because even though I don't intellectually believe the thought that Mark controls his life, I feel the pressure and worry.

Love

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Ilona
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Re: out of fear into the unknown

Postby Ilona » Thu Jan 16, 2020 7:45 am

Yes, I do feel stuck. The fear that is felt coming from thought is debilitating LOL. Mark's freelance work has almost completely stopped, his financial and emotional instability is interfering with this inquiry process. I know that fictional characters don't have emotions and that Mark's worries and what is experienced here is connected, but what is experienced is like being paralysed.
Sounds like a perfect set up...
Yes, experiencing a collapse is not pleasant. It can be intense. But what is worse? To stay paralysed or a quick collapse?

And what is there to collapse?
Can something that does not disappear or get damaged?
If you look right here right now, is mark here or is he imagined?
What do you find when looking here now?
Describe in detail.

Love.

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HanumanMark
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Re: out of fear into the unknown

Postby HanumanMark » Fri Jan 17, 2020 10:59 am

Hello Ilona,

Thanks for your reply.
Yes, experiencing a collapse is not pleasant. It can be intense. But what is worse? To stay paralysed or a quick collapse?
And what is there to collapse?
Can something that does not disappear or get damaged?
Yes I agree that getting through this and moving on is the right direction.
If you look right here right now, is mark here or is he imagined?
What do you find when looking here now?
Describe in detail.
Mark is a thought imagined, when I look here and now there are just sensations like my fingers on the keyboard, noises from the street outside, sensations of legs, a heart beating. And there is compassion and love. In the background there are thoughts trying to make sense of this putting labels on the experience now and creating an agenda for the future.

Love

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Ilona
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Re: out of fear into the unknown

Postby Ilona » Sat Jan 18, 2020 8:37 am

Mark is a thought imagined, when I look here and now there are just sensations like my fingers on the keyboard, noises from the street outside, sensations of legs, a heart beating. And there is compassion and love. In the background there are thoughts trying to make sense of this putting labels on the experience now and creating an agenda for the future.
Good stuff.
And there is sense of being, being aware, being here now.. besides all the passing by experiences.

Is sense of being, beingness, isness, something that comes and goes, or it is always here?

Do you need to do anything in order to be?

Love


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