out of fear into the unknown

Welcome to the main forum. When you are ready to start a conversation, register and once your application is processed a guide will come to talk to you.
This is one-on-one style forum, one thread per green member.
User avatar
Ilona
Site Admin
Posts: 7930
Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2011 1:57 pm
Location: Lithuania
Contact:

Re: out of fear into the unknown

Postby Ilona » Sun Oct 06, 2019 7:29 am

Isness, that’s a good way to describe. Another good word is beingness, being (verb)
The character and all the story is made up, fiction, happening on the mind screen in the imagination theatre.

Here is a video https://youtu.be/_w0wnR72604
Watch it and explore, how it is in your experience, what do you notice about the movie and the character.

Love.

User avatar
HanumanMark
Posts: 54
Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2019 3:18 pm

Re: out of fear into the unknown

Postby HanumanMark » Sun Oct 06, 2019 10:36 pm

hi Ilona,

thanks for link to the video and your pointers ...

Lots of ups and downs in the movie and for the character recently and this weekend too. And even when I know I'm not the character I still am affected by the good or not so good things that happen to the character. It feels dramatic and compelling to follow ... like the tv series that try everything to keep us hooked so that we don't turn off the tv or change programme.

Love

User avatar
Ilona
Site Admin
Posts: 7930
Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2011 1:57 pm
Location: Lithuania
Contact:

Re: out of fear into the unknown

Postby Ilona » Mon Oct 07, 2019 10:34 am

Yeah, the movies can be very compelling and seem true. But are you the character? Or you see the character as an object?
Is there a real character?

Is an image in the imagination you?

Love.

User avatar
HanumanMark
Posts: 54
Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2019 3:18 pm

Re: out of fear into the unknown

Postby HanumanMark » Mon Oct 07, 2019 2:53 pm

Hi Ilona,

I have the intellectual knowledge that I'm the screen and the character is an object, and I can feel that I'm more than the character ... but often his preoccupations become mine ... and I forget who I really am when I'm sorting out work, keeping a relationship going, and looking after my son.

When I have time to be in connection with the quietness inside me I can relax about those preoccupations and I let the character's life unfold without getting totally sucked in .... at other times I lose my distance.

There's no real character ... I'm the creator of the image ... and all images ...

It helps me so much to have this dialogue with you ... much gratitude.

Love

User avatar
Ilona
Site Admin
Posts: 7930
Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2011 1:57 pm
Location: Lithuania
Contact:

Re: out of fear into the unknown

Postby Ilona » Thu Oct 10, 2019 6:40 am

Thank you for reply.
There's no real character ... I'm the creator of the image ... and all images ...
Let’s look here. I am creator of the images. Is that true? Or images come by themselves? What do you do to create an image?
Try this,
Close eyes.
Imagine you are holding a melon.
Watch how the image shows up. See the shape, from, size, texture, temperature, colour. What do you do to create the image?
Where is the i that creates the image? Is it another image that pops up?
And what do you see when you open eyes?

Was there ever a melon?
What happened to the melon?
What is here without imagining anything?

Is I, the character here or is it imagined like the melon?

You say you can feel you are more than the character, the character is imagined. You are. Character is fiction. It’s like saying I am more than imagined melon.

See the difference between what is and what comes in imagination?
Write what you notice.
Love.

User avatar
HanumanMark
Posts: 54
Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2019 3:18 pm

Re: out of fear into the unknown

Postby HanumanMark » Sun Oct 13, 2019 11:54 pm

Hi Ilona,

Thanks for this ... it was tricky for me to get to get into this investigation ... lots of distractions going on for my character.
Where is the i that creates the image? Is it another image that pops up?
And what do you see when you open eyes?

Was there ever a melon?
What happened to the melon?
What is here without imagining anything?

Is I, the character here or is it imagined like the melon?
See the difference between what is and what comes in imagination?
The melon comes up by invoking thought and the I does pop up in the same way in thought.
When I open my eyes there is no melon and no I.
There was never any melon.
What is here without imagining is experiencing and being.
So the I is imagined like the melon.

In my confusion of identity, being more than the character is my experiencing and being ...
and this experience with eyes closed shows me that the character and the melon are imaginations in thought.

What is has qualities like aliveness, spaciousness and boundlessness ... and what comes in imagination with thought has a mechanical, limited, contracted quality.

Love

User avatar
Ilona
Site Admin
Posts: 7930
Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2011 1:57 pm
Location: Lithuania
Contact:

Re: out of fear into the unknown

Postby Ilona » Thu Oct 17, 2019 7:23 am

Thank you for doing the exercise. Yes, the character like the melon is a product of fantasy. Imagination is powerful and it’s easy to dream with eyes open.

The shift that happens is from looking for to looking at. From looking for something to be a certain way to looking at what is as it is. From seeking something in the future, to being in the moment.

Can you see that?

Is there I that can awaken?
Is there a gate to cross?

Love.

User avatar
HanumanMark
Posts: 54
Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2019 3:18 pm

Re: out of fear into the unknown

Postby HanumanMark » Thu Oct 17, 2019 11:31 pm

Hi Ilona,

I love and am grateful for your pointers ... thank you doesn't express enough what I feel !
The shift that happens is from looking for to looking at. From looking for something to be a certain way to looking at what is as it is. From seeking something in the future, to being in the moment.

Can you see that?

Is there I that can awaken?
Is there a gate to cross?
When I identify with my character and want his story to have certain outcomes, I see that I'm in the future and not in the moment.... and you call that looking for.
When I feel what is happening with the senses and the body, and look at the thoughts and the experiencing without following thought into the story of my character ... you call that looking at.

I'm in between the two ... and both are present at the same time in varying degrees on different days.
There is no I that can awaken.
The gate is to change focus from future to present ... from looking for ... to looking at.

I'm beginning to see (it feels good) ...

Love ....

User avatar
HanumanMark
Posts: 54
Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2019 3:18 pm

Re: out of fear into the unknown

Postby HanumanMark » Wed Oct 23, 2019 2:51 pm

Hello Ilona,

hoping that you are well.

Since last time I posted my character got triggered a few times by family interactions and material concerns. I experienced that with a mix of frustration and depression ... but that's part of my character and his story. It felt like a breakthrough to see that the I-thought is only a thought. Fear has increased when thoughts take over in the intervals between activity and meditation but the presence watching the story has increased.

Thanks for your pointers,

Love

User avatar
Ilona
Site Admin
Posts: 7930
Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2011 1:57 pm
Location: Lithuania
Contact:

Re: out of fear into the unknown

Postby Ilona » Tue Oct 29, 2019 6:55 am

Hi mark. Sorry for being absent.
Sometimes I read a reply and time is required for the question to arise.
How is it going? Are you noticing any differences in normal everyday life? Is there a shift in how you see life?

The stories continue and should they not? There is a whole lot of programming that needs and wants to be seen and released. Stories are here to deliver the message. Something is here to be seen. And it’s ok at this stage to be lost in the stories and notice that it’s a story. That’s how you become conscious of what is going on in the mind. Stories can be entertaining or horrible, it’s still a story about a character. You are aware of the story, and that is a space for undoing tension.

The fear you spoke about, is it still here?
What is behind it?

Love.

User avatar
HanumanMark
Posts: 54
Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2019 3:18 pm

Re: out of fear into the unknown

Postby HanumanMark » Tue Oct 29, 2019 11:46 pm

Hi Ilona,

thanks for you message and your beautiful questions.

Since my last post I've been with my son and my mother ... quite a good place to observe, feel and relive stories. I've been trying to fix the story, and when this didn't work I tried to make it so that I wasn't too emotionnally affected by the story ... and when this didn't work I brought my focus back to me.
Coming back to my body sensations has been useful to release some tensions coming out of the story, and at other times feelings of anger, frustration and impotence have been present.
The difference in my life for the moment is that I don't get totally stuck in the emotions and character identification, they're present but my awareness is a little more open ... I don't know what to do, where to direct my attention, there is discomfort and a feeling of being lost ... and at the same time the feeling of trying something a different way.

I've felt the fear underneath trying to fix my character's life and not being able to. It's the fear of not being certain that anything will get me anywhere, fear of dying ... a sad lonely foolish death (something that I could have avoided if I had listened to thoughts .... LOL) ... fear of not being sufficient .... fear of letting go of the steering wheel.

Love

User avatar
HanumanMark
Posts: 54
Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2019 3:18 pm

Re: out of fear into the unknown

Postby HanumanMark » Thu Oct 31, 2019 11:09 am

Hi Ilona,

I'm by myself again now.

I want to add to my last post ... that the fear I feel is the irrational fear of disappearing or staying where nothing is happening and there is no one. I have the intuition that this fear is normal and at the same time I needn't be scared.

Love

User avatar
Ilona
Site Admin
Posts: 7930
Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2011 1:57 pm
Location: Lithuania
Contact:

Re: out of fear into the unknown

Postby Ilona » Mon Nov 04, 2019 10:28 am

Thank you for sharing.
Fear of letting go of the steering wheel, let’s look at that. What are you in control of? What are you managing right this moment? Are you in charge of what colours, sounds, sensations, emotion, smell, thoughts are presently here? Can you change colours at will or make sounds different? What is that requires your management in order to show up?

Explore this and write what you see in your immediate experience.

Love.

User avatar
HanumanMark
Posts: 54
Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2019 3:18 pm

Re: out of fear into the unknown

Postby HanumanMark » Mon Nov 04, 2019 5:24 pm

Hi Ilona,

Thanks for your reply, presence and guiding.

In my immediate experience I have no control over what my senses and my thoughts register, I don’t do anything for them to fonction as they do, the sounds colours and thoughts arise in experience as pleasant, unpleasant or indifferent. At this level it’s clear to me there is no management required. From moment to moment there is a spontaneous flow of experience and I am not separated from it … there is no subject or object just experiencing.

I feel like this in my free time when I let go, for example on holiday and when the thoughts I have say that nothing important is at stake. Cultivating the feeling that nothing serious is at stake feels like a practice that could be useful for me ?
What are you in control of? What are you managing right this moment? What is that requires your management in order to show up?
At some point in my moment to moment experiencing a thought arises, the thought is a kind of injonction “you must do this thing or else there will be a bad consequence for your character in the story” (now in the narrative of my thoughts an identification with awareness is possible … even if it’s just to fool me).

When I follow this thought I identify with Mark and my character listens /negotiates with the thoughts containing the injonctions, and responds sometimes positively sometimes not.
I can see that my character is a just a fictional character maintained by thought, I can’t control the thoughts that come up, but my character believes that he’s managing those thoughts and getting Mark to do stuff he otherwise wouldn’t necessarily have done.

In direct experience I always show up no matter what, the real me can’t disappear I’m like the surface on which the story plays, and the quality of being doesn’t depend on how my character is feeling in the story.

Nevertheless the thought is there that it’s easier to connect with this presence when Mark in the story is doing ok, that I need this body and some kind of healthy avatar ?

Love

User avatar
Ilona
Site Admin
Posts: 7930
Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2011 1:57 pm
Location: Lithuania
Contact:

Re: out of fear into the unknown

Postby Ilona » Thu Nov 07, 2019 8:04 am

Thank you for reply.

What is the i that identifies with Mark?
Is mark perceiver of sensations?
Is mark in charge of what sensations show up?
And what is that says “my character”
What is the difference between my character and not mine? Is mum your character or someone else owns it?

See how this cartoon is created? A character mark (in the movie) is experiencing searching for himself. And is identifying with this contour 2d drawing. Bus is it that drawing that creates the cartoon? Or the drawing is created (and not by mark)
What is creating the story?

Explore this and write soon!

Love.


Return to “THE GATE”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest