out of fear into the unknown

Welcome to the main forum. When you are ready to start a conversation, register and once your application is processed a guide will come to talk to you.
This is one-on-one style forum, one thread per green member.
User avatar
Ilona
Site Admin
Posts: 7857
Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2011 1:57 pm
Location: Lithuania
Contact:

Re: out of fear into the unknown

Postby Ilona » Fri Sep 20, 2019 6:06 am

You are aware right now, right? That’s not intellectual understanding, that is obvious. You are already here now. And everything that arises and passes is seen. There is nothing else to see. You are not a wave, separate from the water. The water waves as thoughts, as stories, as experiences. The connectedness is already here all the time. That’s the being.
Let go of trying to look FOR connectedness and notice what is already here. Don’t look for something, look at what is. Notice there are sounds, colours, sensations, perceptions - all that comes and goes, and look at that which is always here- beingness.
Stillness underneath all movement.
That’s it.
It’s always here. It’s always fresh and immediate.

Is there anything incomplete, right here right now?

Love.

User avatar
HanumanMark
Posts: 54
Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2019 3:18 pm

Re: out of fear into the unknown

Postby HanumanMark » Sun Sep 22, 2019 10:25 pm

Ilona,

You are aware right now, right? That’s not intellectual understanding, that is obvious. You are already here now. And everything that arises and passes is seen. There is nothing else to see. You are not a wave, separate from the water. The water waves as thoughts, as stories, as experiences. The connectedness is already here all the time. That’s the being.Let go of trying to look FOR connectedness and notice what is already here. Don’t look for something, look at what is. Notice there are sounds, colours, sensations, perceptions - all that comes and goes, and look at that which is always here- beingness.
Stillness underneath all movement.
That’s it.
It’s always here. It’s always fresh and immediate.
yes ... thank you for pointing this out .... the connectedness is the being ... and it's underneath all movement.

My freelance work has been more busy this last week ... being so occupied felt a relief from waiting for the telephone to ring and making up client prospect lists. When I'm busy ... the moments of silence I get are a luxury for which I feel so grateful, and when my schedule is emptier I feel guilty if I give myself too much time to meditate or do other things than work orientated stuff. At these times of slack in my routine my sensed perceptions are strong and rich, then when I'm very occupied I can feel the flow of being as it's happening, but most of the time my senses perceptions don't receive much of my attention.

.... it seems that the content of my experience changes a lot my perception !

Is there anything incomplete, right here right now?
... nothing incomplete right here right now.

I'll let you know how it goes these next few busy days with my attention on the stillness underneath the movement.

Gratitude for your guidance Ilona.

Love

User avatar
Ilona
Site Admin
Posts: 7857
Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2011 1:57 pm
Location: Lithuania
Contact:

Re: out of fear into the unknown

Postby Ilona » Mon Sep 23, 2019 5:41 am

.... it seems that the content of my experience changes a lot my perception !
Interesting. Check, maybe it’s the other way round — the perception changes the experience?

You say here now everything is complete. Is there other time space than here now? Can you fall out of the now? Do you need to try to be here now? Does present moment vanish or hide away? How do you see that?

Love.

User avatar
HanumanMark
Posts: 54
Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2019 3:18 pm

Re: out of fear into the unknown

Postby HanumanMark » Mon Sep 23, 2019 8:33 pm

Hi Ilona,

Check, maybe it’s the other way round — the perception changes the experience?
Yes definitely ... if I'm feeling joyful, the experience I get is made joyful because of my percieving ... and since it is awareness that percieves and the experience is in awareness it makes more sense that way round. I guess that I register my perceptions better when I'm more open and available because when I'm busy my awareness is direcred towards other objects.

You say here now everything is complete. Is there other time space than here now? Can you fall out of the now? Do you need to try to be here now? Does present moment vanish or hide away? How do you see that?
I've always only been in now ... the only other time space I know is the illusional one that a me character creates when it doesn't like the present moment and wants another experience than the one that's there.
... In that illusion perceptions and experience are colored with the resistance and suffering, space and time contract and seem to lose some of their qualities.

Time for me to go home from work ... and experience some sense perceptions other than screens.

Thanks Ilona, love

User avatar
Ilona
Site Admin
Posts: 7857
Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2011 1:57 pm
Location: Lithuania
Contact:

Re: out of fear into the unknown

Postby Ilona » Wed Sep 25, 2019 7:23 am

Thank you for reply.
me character creates when it doesn't like the present moment and wants another experience than the one that's there.
Interesting. You say me character creates. But look closer, is me character the creator or the created? What is that creates?
Is a character in a story creating what happens in the story or the story about the character creates itself, one thought at a time?
Is the me character thinking?
Or are thoughts coming up by themselves?
What do you do in order to think?
Is there a thinker?

Can a thought think?

Play with this and write what you notice.

Love.

User avatar
HanumanMark
Posts: 54
Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2019 3:18 pm

Re: out of fear into the unknown

Postby HanumanMark » Thu Sep 26, 2019 11:13 pm

Hi Ilona,

I would have liked to reply earlier but my work schedule has been so busy the last couple of days ... and I had some outings.

You say me character creates. But look closer, is me character the creator or the created? What is that creates?
Wow Ilona, those are questions that confront a blurry area in my thinking ! .... when I look for the me character, it can't be found it''s only a belief maintained by a stream of thoughts.

Is a character in a story creating what happens in the story or the story about the character creates itself, one thought at a time?
Is the me character thinking?
Or are thoughts coming up by themselves?
What do you do in order to think?
Is there a thinker?

Can a thought think?
Thoughts are coming up by themelves one thought at a time, there''s no thinker, and I don't know who or what creates the thoughts ... but thoughts don't think, they are experienced in awareness. So the story about the character creates itself, and what happens to the character in the story is also created by thought ... even though there's no thinker.

Arriving at the observation that the story of the me character is generated and perpetuated by the stream of thoughts is liberating and at the same time I can feel some resistance of the I - thought to let go so easily. I need to watch the thoughts as they tell the story for a bit to get used to this shift.

Thanks so much Ilona ... enjoy your day !

Love

User avatar
Ilona
Site Admin
Posts: 7857
Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2011 1:57 pm
Location: Lithuania
Contact:

Re: out of fear into the unknown

Postby Ilona » Fri Sep 27, 2019 6:29 am

Good work! Yes, thoughts are seen.

What happens when you ask Is there a thinker?
Is there I?

Love.

User avatar
HanumanMark
Posts: 54
Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2019 3:18 pm

Re: out of fear into the unknown

Postby HanumanMark » Mon Sep 30, 2019 12:12 am

Hi Ilona,

it took me some time to feel my way through these questions but I enjoyed the looking.

What happens when you ask Is there a thinker?
When I ask is there a thinker ... this question creates a multitude of other questions and I see that thought is in a loop where the answer is further away than it was before the question was considered ... thought doesn't know ... I see that the language and the concepts that thoughts create and use, make possible the existence of a character and a story and questions and answers. Without language and concepts and labelling there is only being and is-ness.

Is there I?
'I' doesn't have any meaning outside thought and the objects in thought are constructs which make possible lots of things that seem 'nice' .... but don't necessarily have any foundation in any reality outside of thought. The I-thought points to an object in thought which is just another concept.


Much gratitude for your time and patience to lead me through these questions and see the confusion that I've been living in.

Love

User avatar
Ilona
Site Admin
Posts: 7857
Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2011 1:57 pm
Location: Lithuania
Contact:

Re: out of fear into the unknown

Postby Ilona » Mon Sep 30, 2019 10:08 am

When I ask is there a thinker ... this question creates a multitude of other questions and I see that thought is in a loop where the answer is further away than it was before the question was considered ... thought doesn't know ... I see that the language and the concepts that thoughts create and use, make possible the existence of a character and a story and questions and answers. Without language and concepts and labelling there is only being and is-ness.
Nice! There is only being and isness.
Is there a being or word being is a verb? How does that feel?


Love.

User avatar
HanumanMark
Posts: 54
Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2019 3:18 pm

Re: out of fear into the unknown

Postby HanumanMark » Mon Sep 30, 2019 4:42 pm

Hi Ilona,

Is there a being or word being is a verb? How does that feel?

The being is a verb ... there doesn't seem to be any separate entities.

Realising that thought has only the limited function of analysing it''s own conceptual creations feels like losing a friend who I trusted and who doesn't have a clue about the bigger picture.

I feel on shaky ground ... like what I used to do doesn't work any more.

Love

User avatar
Ilona
Site Admin
Posts: 7857
Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2011 1:57 pm
Location: Lithuania
Contact:

Re: out of fear into the unknown

Postby Ilona » Tue Oct 01, 2019 6:00 am

Interesting...
Are you still feeling shaky? Or is this now self thingy is obvious and in the plane sight?
What in your own words is the illusion of the I?


Love.

User avatar
HanumanMark
Posts: 54
Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2019 3:18 pm

Re: out of fear into the unknown

Postby HanumanMark » Tue Oct 01, 2019 11:49 pm

Ilona,

Ok here's my take on the illusion of the I :

The I-thought with its likes and dislikes polarises (by attraction - repulsion) consciousness into defined formes (my character takes up some position or attitude triggered by reactivity, conditioning and other unchosen and uncontrolable causes) that will then play out in a scenario. To identify with the I-thought and to identify with the character in the scenario at all, contracts consciousness and causes tension, drama and the unravelling of a story taking the character on a pleasure and pain journey made of thoughts with a limited say on what happens.

The illusion is to believe that I am a thought, the sum of my thoughts or any separate form of consciousness ... I can feel that I am bigger than all that ...

That my character is just a bunch of thoughts is in plain sight, and yet sometimes I still identify with my character to various degrees ... like he's all I've got (smiles).

Gratitude and love

User avatar
Ilona
Site Admin
Posts: 7857
Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2011 1:57 pm
Location: Lithuania
Contact:

Re: out of fear into the unknown

Postby Ilona » Wed Oct 02, 2019 8:34 am

Nice, thank you!
Then what in your own words is real?

Love

User avatar
HanumanMark
Posts: 54
Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2019 3:18 pm

Re: out of fear into the unknown

Postby HanumanMark » Thu Oct 03, 2019 8:03 am

Hi Ilona,

what in your own words is real?
The experience in consciousness of my story (lived by myself and what I share with others), my character's grappling with his journey, and the inner feelings of love and peace ... all that is real to me.

I'll add to this later ..

Love

User avatar
HanumanMark
Posts: 54
Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2019 3:18 pm

Re: out of fear into the unknown

Postby HanumanMark » Sat Oct 05, 2019 11:42 pm

.... yes what feels real is the is-ness, the ....ing without subject or object, and the knowing in some of my experiences ... like being at one with whatever is going on. That feels really real ... and impossible to describe in words.

Love


Return to “THE GATE”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest