"who" is the lostperrito?

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lostperrito
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"who" is the lostperrito?

Postby lostperrito » Sat Aug 17, 2019 7:31 pm

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
Not sure I really understand this and am wondering if it can be understand and not just "known". That the idea of me as a separate entity, called "self", from what is (what is happening) is false. The "self" is a construct of the mind which itself (haha) exists only to create separation from what is so that we experience what is happening.

What are you looking for at LU?
I am open to whatever LU has to offer, but generally, if I have a desire, it might be to achieve a state of being in everyday life that reflects that there is no self and minimizes and hopefully some day eliminates the idea of separation from what is.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
A better understanding of my barriers/ roadblocks to knowing that there is no self and separation and direction/ guidance on how to get rid of these. Guidance towards achieving a state of being in everyday life that reflects that there is no self and minimizes and hopefully some day eliminates the idea of separation from what is.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
I've always had the sense that I am a construct separated from that which is (all that is, the one, god, spirit, energy - call it what you will). I experienced a moment that all is Love when I was 9. I experienced a near death experience (by drowning) at age 16 during which my sense of self/separation dissolved into the water and I became the water until fear pulled me back. These reinforced the sense that the "I", my self, is just a construct separated from something that is everything. I have read several spiritual self-discovery books and attended a 3 day sitting with Gangaji. Other than this, I have very little formal experience in the way of spiritual practices, practices and inquiry.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self?
11

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Re: "who" is the lostperrito?

Postby forgetmenot » Sat Aug 17, 2019 11:03 pm

Hi Lostperrito,

My name is Kay, and I am happy to assist you in exploring the idea of the separate self. This is an experiential based guiding and is not a discussion or a debate.

At LU we are described as guides and not teachers as our role is to directly point to what IS, through the use of exercises, questions and some dialogue. Your role is to LOOK carefully to what is being pointed at. It is this simple LOOKING (not thinking) that brings the realisation that there is no separate self and never has been and with this realisation a shift in perception happens. You can’t just sit and ponder what we are exploring, you must apply the ideas to your life; see them in action…actually do the work (practical application) every day, day in and day out.

Here are links to information I would like you to read before we begin.

Disclaimer:-

http://liberationunleashed.com/disclaimer-2/

Terms & Conditions:-

https://www.liberationunleashed.com/register/terms/

“Liberation Unleashed is not …” in the FAQ’s of LU.

http://liberationunleashed.com/about/faq/#faq-1041

Please learn to use the quote function. When replying to a question, please use the quote function to highlight the question being answered. Instructions are located in the link below:

https://www.liberationunleashed.com/na ... f=4&t=660

Please confirm that you have read the disclaimer and the other links and we can then begin the exploration.

How would you like to be called?

Kay
Nothing real can be threatened. Nothing unreal exists.
https://freedomalreadyis.com/

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lostperrito
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Re: "who" is the lostperrito?

Postby lostperrito » Sun Aug 18, 2019 3:09 pm

How would you like to be called?
Hi Kay,
Please call me Greg.
Thanks.

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Re: "who" is the lostperrito?

Postby forgetmenot » Sun Aug 18, 2019 9:38 pm

Hello Greg,

Please confirm that you have read the disclaimer and the other links and we can then begin the exploration.
Please ensure that you do read the link to what“Liberation Unleashed is not …” in the FAQ’s of LU (link supplied in my previous post), as it addresses many expectations of what this exploration is NOT about and does not give.

Kay
Nothing real can be threatened. Nothing unreal exists.
https://freedomalreadyis.com/

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Re: "who" is the lostperrito?

Postby lostperrito » Sun Aug 18, 2019 11:10 pm

Please confirm that you have read the disclaimer and the other links and we can then begin the exploration.
Hi Kay,
Yes, I have read the disclaimer and other links. Sorry I forgot to mention that in my previous response.
Greg

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Re: "who" is the lostperrito?

Postby forgetmenot » Mon Aug 19, 2019 1:39 am

Hey Greg,

Thank you for confirming you have read the disclaimer and other links. You may want to watch how to use the quote function again :) If you click on PREVIEW before SUBMIT, you will get an opportunity to see how your post looks and to edit any errors etc.

Just so that we are clear: to have the realisation that there is no separate self, you must be 100% committed to seeing it. It can’t be just a nice idea; an intellectual curiosity. You have got to pursue this as if you have no other choice. This means that you have to LOOK and implement pointers, insights and exercises etc into your daily life....day in and day out.

Some housekeeping guidelines:-
1. Unless exercises given need several days to be accomplished; post at least every second day. If you need more time, or are unable to post for several days, just write a quick post on your thread to let me know. If you wish to post every day, that too is okay!

2. Please answer what's true for you once you have looked to see what is being pointed at, rather than any sort of 'ideal' answer. Ideal answers may sound good but will be of no benefit to you in having you realise that there is no separate self. There is no one judging answers given, so please be100% honest in your answers and inquiry.

3. This exploration is based on actual experience (AE) - smell, taste, sound, sensation, colour and observed thoughts. Long-winded analytical and philosophical answers are best avoided and may even hinder progress. This is not a self-improvement process. There is no ‘self’ to improve.

4. Put aside all other teachings, philosophies, rituals, practices, books/reading and so on for the remainder of this investigation. Really put all your effort and attention in to seeing this reality, as it is. If you have a daily meditation practice, it is fine to continue that but is not necessary for this exploration. Be here with an open and curious mind.

Technology is not perfect and sometimes there is a glitch which can wipe out your responses. It is advisable that you copy and paste questions asked into Word, answer them there and then copy and paste them to your thread. Always save a copy of what you have done in Word - it will save you time in the long run!

To begin with, so that we both become aware of what your expectations are about this exploration ie what life will look like; what life will feel like and what you want/hope will change or not change etc. Could you please answer the 4 following questions in your own words:-

How will life change?
How will you change?
What will be different?
What is missing?


Throughout this exploration I would like you to answer all questions that I have written in blue text. Please answer questions individually, remembering to use the quote function to highlight the question being answered.

Kay
Nothing real can be threatened. Nothing unreal exists.
https://freedomalreadyis.com/

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Re: "who" is the lostperrito?

Postby lostperrito » Mon Aug 19, 2019 6:37 pm

How will life change?
Life will be more invigorating, filled with wonder, full of adventure, more spontaneous, and joyful; e.g., more like I remember life as a kid when we started summer vacation. Life will include less stress, fear, anger, and worry. Life will include world travel, visiting amazing places, experiencing different cultures, learning Spanish and meeting good people. Life will become less of a mystery with a better understanding of who I am and/or am not and what is real.
How will you change?
I will be more open and trusting to whatever happens because I will have less fear, worry and stress about what may happen. I will learn to live with fewer possessions and be more present in the moment. I will create more (learn music, write a book, etc.). I will be healthier (eat better, exercise more) and have less physical pain. I will be more relaxed and fun to be around and less judgmental and critical. I will be react to stressful and/or uncomfortable situations with more compassion and understanding. I will regain my trust in people and enjoy them for who they are instead of assuming the worst and avoiding them.
What will be different?
I will trust life more and surrender to what's happening and worry less about things going wrong, losing money, getting injured, pain and suffering, oh, an worry less about what other people think of me. I will have less fear of missing out. I will have less fear of death. I will have more real, good friends and relations. I will be healthier and have reduced back and hip pain. I will be able to travel when I want, where I want and in a the manner that is healthiest and most rewarding. I will enjoy meeting new people and joining in efforts to help them and the community.
What is missing?
A sense of wonder and joy in life. A feeling of freedom and the expectation that all will be good and things will work out for the best. The desire to get up in the morning and enjoy the day, whatever may come. Community, sharing, belonging, being around similar people who are loving and kind and interesting. On a deeper level, an understanding of what this life all about? Why do I even exist? What the heck is going on??

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Re: "who" is the lostperrito?

Postby forgetmenot » Tue Aug 20, 2019 12:14 am

Hello Greg,

The purpose of these questions were for you and I to become aware of any expectations you may have of what the realisation of ‘no self’ may look and feel like, and how you think life should then look like and how you should or shouldn’t be like or feel. Expectations have a habit of getting in the way of this exploration and can blind side the fact that the realisation has happened. There are no trumpeting angels, sky lighting fireworks or huge signs letting you know that you have had the realisation. It is more of a subtle shift that can be missed, especially if there are expectations and desires of how the seeming separate self should change, how life should change; as well as comparisons to how others have experienced the realisation.

There is nothing to be done with expectations other than to be aware of them and any others that appear as we move through this guiding. Just also be aware that when desired outcomes to expectations are not met, then fear, anger, resistance, resentment, frustration etc can arise. These reactions/emotions will arise during our exploration as we investigate and question beliefs that seem to point to the idea of there being an “I”. When they do appear, please let me know so that we can look at them together
How will life change?
Life will be more invigorating, filled with wonder, full of adventure, more spontaneous, and joyful; e.g., more like I remember life as a kid when we started summer vacation. Life will include less stress, fear, anger, and worry. Life will include world travel, visiting amazing places, experiencing different cultures, learning Spanish and meeting good people. Life will become less of a mystery with a better understanding of who I am and/or am not and what is real.
There has NEVER ever been a separate self…not even one who is reading this now, then why would anything change? Life is simply lifing and does itself. Everything is already functioning properly without a separate self. It was never more than an illusion in the first place. In this sense, nothing changes and yet everything changes…because perception changes about life and what it is.
How will you change?
I will be more open and trusting to whatever happens because I will have less fear, worry and stress about what may happen. I will learn to live with fewer possessions and be more present in the moment. I will create more (learn music, write a book, etc.). I will be healthier (eat better, exercise more) and have less physical pain. I will be more relaxed and fun to be around and less judgmental and critical. I will be react to stressful and/or uncomfortable situations with more compassion and understanding. I will regain my trust in people and enjoy them for who they are instead of assuming the worst and avoiding them.
They are all thoughts about how to improve an “I”. How can an illusion be improved upon? It’s like saying that the oasis in the desert that is a mirage can be made to look better….how does one do that exactly? If the character seemingly changes…then that is what is unfolding in the show called life, however, there is no DOING the improving. And it is only a thought story that suggests something is not good enough, and something is good enough, and that the not good enough needs to be fixed/changed! Does a cloud need to better itself, or is it simply an appearance that comes and goes in the sky? Does the cloud require itself to be different, to change? Does the sky require the cloud to be different?
What will be different?
I will trust life more and surrender to what's happening and worry less about things going wrong, losing money, getting injured, pain and suffering, oh, an worry less about what other people think of me. I will have less fear of missing out. I will have less fear of death. I will have more real, good friends and relations. I will be healthier and have reduced back and hip pain. I will be able to travel when I want, where I want and in a the manner that is healthiest and most rewarding. I will enjoy meeting new people and joining in efforts to help them and the community.
There are a lot of “I” in there! Rewrite what you wrote and leave off the “I” and see how that feels when you are rewriting it. Don’t change anything else…just leave off the “I”. Let me know how you go, what happens?
What is missing?
A sense of wonder and joy in life. A feeling of freedom and the expectation that all will be good and things will work out for the best. The desire to get up in the morning and enjoy the day, whatever may come. Community, sharing, belonging, being around similar people who are loving and kind and interesting. On a deeper level, an understanding of what this life all about? Why do I even exist? What the heck is going on??
There is nothing missing, ever! How can what IS already whole, complete and seamless, and always has been be missing anything? That would be like saying that when a cloud no longer appears, that part of the sky is now missing!

This exploration is not about seeing what you are…it is about seeing what you are not. It is through this seeing that a picture begins to emerge of what actually IS as opposed to what thought says is.

Kay
Nothing real can be threatened. Nothing unreal exists.
https://freedomalreadyis.com/

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lostperrito
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Re: "who" is the lostperrito?

Postby lostperrito » Tue Aug 20, 2019 5:30 pm

There are a lot of “I” in there! Rewrite what you wrote and leave off the “I” and see how that feels when you are rewriting it. Don’t change anything else…just leave off the “I”. Let me know how you go, what happens?
Hi Kay,
I tried taking the "I" out and rewriting but after several attempts the only thing that made sense was "Life is what's happening."
Greg

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Re: "who" is the lostperrito?

Postby forgetmenot » Wed Aug 21, 2019 1:19 am

Hey Greg,
There are a lot of “I” in there! Rewrite what you wrote and leave off the “I” and see how that feels when you are rewriting it. Don’t change anything else…just leave off the “I”. Let me know how you go, what happens?
I tried taking the "I" out and rewriting but after several attempts the only thing that made sense was "Life is what's happening."
Nice! Let’s clarify it a little more…there is no ‘what’s happening’. Life is simply happening and it doesn't need an "I" for any of it to happen! :)

As stated in my first post, my role is to directly point to what IS, through the use of exercises and questions. Your role is to LOOK carefully to what is being pointed at. It is this simple LOOKING (not thinking) that brings the realisation that there is no separate self and never has been.

So now we become aware of actual experience (AE) and what LOOKING is.
‘Looking’ is just plain looking at actual/direct experience (AE), which is simply colour, sound, smell, sensation, taste and the simple knowing of thought at face value that is appearing right now in the moment.

You are looking at the raw experience of colour, sound, smell, sensation and taste and noticing the labels and thoughts ABOUT the raw experience.
The key to this exploration is the careful LOOKING. Why? Because it’s the act of actually LOOKING and not finding an “I” that brings about the realisation of there being no separate self and that there has never been a separate self.

So first we become aware of what AE is and how it is used to ‘look’.

I would like you to sit quietly and close your eyes and just listen to the sounds for a few minutes that can be heard both inside and outside of the room. Really hear them.

Tell me ONE sound that you heard when doing this? (Make sure it is a sound that you will be able to hear again for part 2 of this exercise).

Kay
Nothing real can be threatened. Nothing unreal exists.
https://freedomalreadyis.com/

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Re: "who" is the lostperrito?

Postby lostperrito » Wed Aug 21, 2019 4:02 pm

Tell me ONE sound that you heard when doing this? (Make sure it is a sound that you will be able to hear again for part 2 of this exercise).
Kay, the one sound that is consistent is the sound of hissing in my ears (some call it tinnitus).

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Re: "who" is the lostperrito?

Postby forgetmenot » Wed Aug 21, 2019 11:24 pm

Hey Greg,
Tell me ONE sound that you heard when doing this? (Make sure it is a sound that you will be able to hear again for part 2 of this exercise).
Kay, the one sound that is consistent is the sound of hissing in my ears (some call it tinnitus).
Okay! Now redo Part I of the exercise, and then look carefully at what I am pointing to with the following questions. Please answer from looking at actual experience only (ie colour, sound, thought, smell, taste or sensation), and not with an intellectual answer.

Please repeat the exercise and tell me:-
Without thought, how is it known that the sound heard is "hissing in my ears"? In other words, what is it that suggests the sound is hissing?

Does the sound itself suggest in any way that it is "hissing in my ears”, or is it thought that suggests it?

What is the actual experience (AE) of hearing ‘hissing’? Is it AE of smell, taste, sensation, sound, colour or thought?


Kay
Nothing real can be threatened. Nothing unreal exists.
https://freedomalreadyis.com/

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Re: "who" is the lostperrito?

Postby lostperrito » Thu Aug 22, 2019 3:42 pm

Without thought, how is it known that the sound heard is "hissing in my ears"? In other words, what is it that suggests the sound is hissing?
When I don't think about the hissing sound, which happens when I listen to others sounds or think about something else, I don't notice the hissing; therefore, I'd say the sound of hissing isn't "hissing" without thinking about it, i.e., it is not hissing without thought. Therefore, it is not known that the sound heard is hissing in my ears unless thought defines it as such.
Does the sound itself suggest in any way that it is "hissing in my ears”, or is it thought that suggests it?
Thought suggests it is. The sound is just happening and it is not "hissing" unless thought labels it as such.
What is the actual experience (AE) of hearing ‘hissing’? Is it AE of smell, taste, sensation, sound, colour or thought?
It is thought alone.

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Re: "who" is the lostperrito?

Postby forgetmenot » Fri Aug 23, 2019 12:40 am

Hey Greg,
Without thought, how is it known that the sound heard is "hissing in my ears"? In other words, what is it that suggests the sound is hissing?
When I don't think about the hissing sound, which happens when I listen to others sounds or think about something else, I don't notice the hissing; therefore, I'd say the sound of hissing isn't "hissing" without thinking about it, i.e., it is not hissing without thought. Therefore, it is not known that the sound heard is hissing in my ears unless thought defines it as such.
Nice, yes! And without thought, how is it known that the “hissing’ is happening in “my ears”?
Does the “hissing’ actually have a location?

Does the sound itself suggest in any way that it is "hissing in my ears”, or is it thought that suggests it?
Thought suggests it is. The sound is just happening and it is not "hissing" unless thought labels it as such.
Exactly :)
What is the actual experience (AE) of hearing ‘hissing’? Is it AE of smell, taste, sensation, sound, colour or thought?
It is thought alone.
Yes. Thought either points to actual experience (AE), as in this case…where the label ‘hissing’ is pointing to AE of sound, or thought points to thoughts about thought. In other words, actual experience is everything, except the "content" of thought, because thought, in and of itself does not contain any experience. If thought contained experience, then you would be able to hear the word/thought ‘thunder’, taste the word ‘sweet’ and you would get wet by the word ‘water’.
Can you see this?


The interpretation of actual experience happens quickly. So while inquiring, labelling and interpretation will always appear, but it is possible to become aware of the thoughts that appear with,and overlay actual experience. Another key component of this exploration is being able to tell the difference between actual experience and the interpretation by thought of actual experience

The following exercise points to what I mean.

For this exercise you will need an apple or any other piece of fruit will do.

Image

Have a look at an apple. When ‘looking at an apple’, there's colour; a thought saying ‘apple’; and maybe a thought saying, "I'm looking at an apple."
What is known for sure? Colour is known and thoughts are known.

What about the content of thoughts, what they describe?
Actual experience does not refer to thoughts ABOUT something…because that is only just more thought. Actual experience is sound, thought, colour, smell, taste, sensation.

Is there really an ‘apple’ here, or only colour and a thought ABOUT ‘apple’?
Can ‘apple’ be found in actual experience?


While these thoughts are known, what they talk ABOUT can't be found in actual experience.

This is what is meant by ‘looking in actual experience ‘. What you know for sure, and, is always here.

The label ‘apple’ is known
Taste labelled ‘apple’ is known
Colour labelled ‘apple’ is known
Sensation labelled ‘apple’ is known (when apple is touched)
Smell labelled ‘apple’ is known
Thought about/of an ‘apple’ is known
However, is an apple actually known?

Kay
Nothing real can be threatened. Nothing unreal exists.
https://freedomalreadyis.com/

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lostperrito
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Re: "who" is the lostperrito?

Postby lostperrito » Fri Aug 23, 2019 8:01 pm

Yes. Thought either points to actual experience (AE), as in this case…where the label ‘hissing’ is pointing to AE of sound, or thought points to thoughts about thought. In other words, actual experience is everything, except the "content" of thought, because thought, in and of itself does not contain any experience. If thought contained experience, then you would be able to hear the word/thought ‘thunder’, taste the word ‘sweet’ and you would get wet by the word ‘water’.
Can you see this?
Yes, I can see this.
Is there really an ‘apple’ here, or only colour and a thought ABOUT ‘apple’?
Ca'n ‘apple’ be found in actual experience?
There is only color and a thought and no "apple" can be found in AE.
However, is an apple actually known?
An "apple" is not AE and is not actually known. Only the color, smell, taste, touch and actual thought (not the content of the thought) is known.


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