Thank you for getting through these questions about expectations. It’s important, because every expectation is in a way of seeing what is here, right now. Every expectation is a ‘hindrance’ in realizing what IS.
Expectations results in comparison. Comparison between what is happening, and the imagined expectation. Thus what has been seen can be thrown out or ignored, since it doesn’t match the expected outcome.
I go through all the expectations one-by-one. While you read them, please pay attention to what arises ‘in the body’. Is there any resistance to any of it?
From what I have read people who have seen this still experience the urge to try to control things but this drops away as there is no belief in the I for the urge to attach to.
Fortunately and unfortunately, there are lots of information nowadays about awakening with all sorts of stories. The unfortunate part of it is that others read those stories, and they create all sorts of expectations and fantasies and even fears based on those stories.
There is ALREADY no self, and it has never been, and yet seeming control still happens.
So why would anything change just because the self has seen through?
Nothing really will change, control will still happen.
The only change is the RECOGNITION that behind the thoughts of control there is no one there.
I would expect / hope that I would become way more tolerant as I would see that the behaviour of others is happening spontaneously rather than at the direction of a separate person/ identity.
It’s not that simple. Behaviours and the way we relate to others are conditioned habits. And just because the self is seen through, it doesn’t mean that all conditionings will be swept out in an instant. This cannot be further from the truth.
Only the core belief of being a separate self is seen through which also includes others beliefs that support this idea. However, like a rug that is beginning to unravel, there are still many knots (beliefs, patterns) that need undoing. Falling away of conditionings can last at the end of the organism. Continuing to LOOK after the realisation is very much the key. LU only guides to the realisation of ‘no separate self’.
Also, personality problems, traumas, emotional pains don’t dissolve just because of seeing no self. So all the conditioned reactions that stem from them still can arise. However, if someone decides to work on these, it’s usually much easier after seeing no-self.
I would expect to see life and the people I interact with and my work in a very different way.
If you expect that your relationship to others will be VERY DIFFERENT, then you might be disappointed. As I wrote above, how we relate to others are conditioned habits and they often stem from childhood problems. These won’t go away. It will require lots and lots of further looking to slowly and gradually dissolve them.
If there are no seprate I’s then no one is intentionally being selfish, mean, angry or neurotic it’s just the energy unfolding, life unfolding - and if I see this and live from it I would expect to be much more relaxed about life and the future...
Sorry to bring you bad news, but selfing thoughts won’t stop. Emotions like anger won’t stop either. Personality problems, like being neurotic will require lots of work and won’t go away in an instant.
Seeing through the self is not a magic reset button, which makes all our emotions and personality issues to go away.
Many seekers believe that they can replace their unpleasant emotions with pleasant ones. However, all emotions are states (both pleasant and unpleasant), and no states are permanent, they are all subject to change. Seeing through the separate individual is not about not having any ‘bad’ or uncomfortable feelings any more. Rather it’s about encompassing all emotions, accepting WHATEVER is arising in this moment (even the so called negative emotions).
Many seekers believe that seeing through the separate individual is a completely different state that they are currently having, with some special qualities (happiness, bliss, constant peace or whatever). However, this is not the case. Seeing through the illusion that there is a separate entity (self) is not a state. When it is SEEN it, the knowledge becomes factual. Many seekers have the impression that seeing there is no self is a state to ‘abide in’. It's not.
But I realise people who have been through the gate still experience painful emotions, fear anger etc.
It seems to me though that if it is truly seem that there is no seprate I and no possibility of control then these emotions should not hang around ( still arise but not stick) and that if they do arise I would not necessarily believe them.
It depends on how deep its roots. If it stems back to a childhood trauma (what we all have) then it can hang around, and lots of further looking is needed to gradually lessen its grip.
I think in some ways everything will be different - life would be seen from a completely different perspective- relationships , work would all be different but the dream of life ( if that’s what it is) would continue...
You are expecting something grandeur! Seeing through the self won’t come with fireworks. It’s usually a subtle shift in perception. It’s a relevant ship, but not with fireworks and trumpets.
But I’m not settled not at peace , feel like I should be doing something that settles this question ( what am I , how should I live, how can I be happy?)
All right. What I can see from your comments, that you want a better life, you want to feel better, you want to be happy… etc. In other words you want to a better / happier version of yourself.
And of course, there is no problem with wanting to feel happy, however seeing through the self is not about having a better version of me.
It’s rather about seeing, that the ‘me’ that seems to be the center of experience, to which all those negative and unpleasant emotion happen TO, is NOT THERE.
It’s about seeing, that these emotions are NOT happening to you.
Since there is no you, whom this emotions can happen to.
The emotions are there, but they are not belonging to or attached to anything.
The emotions just free floating, without being hooked to anything.
The emotions are there, but you (the self) are not.
Now let’s investigate your fears.
Currently I behave and live as if there is a separate individual I who controls my life. I act and believe as if I ( Mike) is doing everything and as if Mike must put in a lot of effort to keep things on track ( to stay healthy , make money to live a happy life to try to get on with people , and to be satisfied).
Of course this is exhausting. I know this but ultimately seem to be trapped in this belief ( of the separate I because I fear that I will not look after myself and my interests , that things will fall apart if I don’t.
There are 2 BIG beliefs here.
1. There is a YOU, there is ME inside this body
2. And this you/me can lose control
This cannot be further from the truth.
Seeing through control, doesn’t mean that YOU will be able to see that YOU ARE NOT in control.
This would be really a hopeless situation. I exist, I AM, but I have no control over anything.
Seeing through the self means something completely different thing!
The reason why there is no control, is because THERE IS NO I AM!
So it’s not about you losing control, but rather to see that the YOU who is so afraid of losing control, is NOT THERE.
So not the control is missing from the picture, but YOU!
Can you see this?
Please read my above comments very thoroughly line by line several times.
Then when it comes to everyday life I fear I need to be me to cope with it - I feel there needs to be a controller otherwise things will fall apart.
There is ALREADY no controller.
It has NEVER EVER BEEN.
The self/controller has always been just a fantasy.
How could things fall apart if the self has always been just imagined?
If seeing no self meant things falling apart with just plain chaos, then things MUST HAVE BEEN fallen apart all along! Since the self is ALREADY not there!
Are things being fallen apart at this moment?
If not, then this is how is going to be AFTER the recognition of no self.
Can you see this?
Then sometimes fear - a contraction in stomach - a feeling of alienation and when I look at my wife or daughter an unsettled feeling...
There is nothing that could die or cease to exist.
There is no self that could die.
Just because the self is seen through, nothing will die, since there has never been a self there in the first place.
There is no self that could be annihilated or killed.
The only thing that changes is the RECOGNITION that there has never been a self there.
But nothing else will change.
The sense of self will still arise. The illusion of the self will still be there.
So nothing will be lost, only a belief in the self will fall away.
Self is ALREADY not there, so it’s literally impossible to annihilate it! Can you see this?
It feels like this in in most of my life if I don’t make some effort , try to control and plan organise things then they will fall apart.
This is just a fearful story you are telling yourself. You are frightened by your own imagination. Can you see this?
Do you think after what I wrote above that after seeing through the self, there will never be any argument in your life again (with your wife or anybody)?
I wrote the answers while in a cafe then went home where I almost immediately got into an argument with my wife. it was as if the seprate sense if I was reasserting itself (maybe).
For the time our investigation, I would like to ask you to stop reading/listening any teachers, and rather spend your time looking. Also, I would like to ask you to put aside all learned knowledge. You have to see this experientially and not relying on others’ experiences. Can we agree on these?
Before starting, please read my above comments a few more times and tell me what comes up by reading the comments about the expectations.
Is there any resistance to any of it?
Please read this post several times very carefully before replying.