yes I see that - its def the thought that causes the stress.V: Can a contracted sensation actually hurt you? Of course, it’s unpleasant, we are not denying that.
M: Not right now - probably - but a thought comes up that they will damage my body over time (high blood pressure /physical stress etc)
But do you see that not the original unpleasant sensation is causing the stress, but rather the THOUGHT that this could damage my body?
Yes more physical contractions and emotions like fear etc.Do you see and FEEL the physical effects of the thought ‘this could damage my body’?
Yes I can see that the thought triggers emotions and more contractions making the sensations stronger - there's a back thought that the thought serves some purpose though - like a warning signal. But then when I go back and look at the sensations I can see the thought - this could damage my body - is def making the feelings stronger/worse.Do you see that this thought is oil to the fire?
Also been practicing with looking at reality versus thoughts. The thought this sensation is going to damage comes up out of no-where. Its not real in the sense of the sensations themselves. It comes and goes on its own.
Out of habit I act as if there is an I doing stuff - when I look and don't find one, and see my thoughts coming and coming and realize that "i" just recognize them some time after they have formed - and see that the I feeling/thought is added on after and credit taken or blame taken for the thought (after) - then I can see all this stuff is just happening without a me (I flip flop in and out of seeing that).If there is no separate I that makes decisions who is deciding to do this process
But what makes you think that there is someone or something deciding?
Where I get stuck is with all the talk of effort and diligence (that I've heard before) and with the thought that effort has to be made to see this.
Saying effort needs to be made makes me think and act as if there is an I required to do it.
When I look I can see there is no decider or doer. I was typing just now and decided to close my eyes to check if I could detect a doer. What made me do that at that moment? I have no idea. It felt like different thought settlign out then an impulse rising.Do you think that deciding needs a doer?
So I can see it makes sense that the decision to make effort works in the same way. Let me check some more.
Yes they do -What if THOUGHTS ABOUT deciding happens on their own?
Just closed my eyes again - and decided to look at deciding :) Then opened them to type and closed again to look. Each time impulse to act popped up. When I look back I can see thoughts jumbling about before the decision.
If thoughts about deciding happen on their own then... mind blowing.
I was looking today but not enough I think - will do more today.Check this out throughout your day. Look as often as possible, especially when there is a sense of “I did this or that” or “I decided…”
I can't find anyone making the decisions - so far just yes just thoughts about decisions - and the thoughts that I ahve done it appearing after the decision has been made!Is there actually something or something making decisions, or there are only THOUGHTS appearing ABOUT decisions automatically, on their own?
What makes you think that in order for there being an effort, an efforter, or doer is needed?
Is this so? Or effort just happens on its own just as everything else?
Thanks Vivien this is something I've struggled with for a while. I ahve always had a belief that making effort requires an I to make them effort. Lots of conditioning school/work etc.
But looking I can see the effort rises up as a result of thoughts that is it required - again I will look at this soe more today as I think this whole effort thing is a stumbling block for me.
noAnd what makes you think that there is an I, who is making decisions?
Is there an actual I, self in experience making decisions?
yes this is what I see when I lookOr thoughts ABOUT decision just happen automatically, on their own, without anything making them happen?
i haven't found anything - thought yes appear by themselvesBut at the same time effort or at least applying ourselves to regular looking is required...
But is there anything making effort and thus making looking to happen?
I will look at this more today Vivien - I've see it when I look but want to look more...But is there anything making effort and thus making looking to happen?
Or both efforting and looking happen automatically, on their own, EFFORTLESSLY?
ok will check this out more today and get back to you.Do you see that even effort happens EFFORTLESSLY, meaning automatically, on its own?
Thnaks again. Mike