Separating fact from fiction

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OnlyOne
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Re: Separating fact from fiction

Postby OnlyOne » Wed Sep 18, 2019 7:15 pm

Hello Vivien,

I'm still finding it quite hard to explain the current position exactly.
Sorry but for your above comment it’s not clear for me why the illusionary gate persists. Could you please tell more?

There's no me here but there's still uncertainty. This uncertainty is diminishing each day as only what is here is recognised as only what is here. Sorry if this comes across as sounding like spiritual guff but that's the best way I can explain it.
What is it that is missing? What do you expect to happen, but it haven’t happened yet?

I am expecting some sort of event which is unmissable to occur (expectations again unfortunately) which provides proof beyond any doubt that I have never existed at all. What seems to be happening is a slow but steady falling away of untruth as a gradual process.

Please write examples from your daily life, something we can work with.

During the day and at work, I move between phases of happening (it's clear that there's no doer or anyone actually here) to doing/choosing (the believed suggestion of a doer/chooser) and a feeler/owner of strong sensations. This is the seesaw I mentioned in an earlier post.

It is really clear that there has been a significant diminishing of the doer/chooser feeler/owner over the period you have been guiding me.

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Vivien
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Re: Separating fact from fiction

Postby Vivien » Thu Sep 19, 2019 1:11 am

Hi OnlyOne,
During the day and at work, I move between phases of happening (it's clear that there's no doer or anyone actually here) to doing/choosing (the believed suggestion of a doer/chooser) and a feeler/owner of strong sensations. This is the seesaw I mentioned in an earlier post.
It is really clear that there has been a significant diminishing of the doer/chooser feeler/owner over the period you have been guiding me.
Is there a ‘you’ moving between two different states? Between seeing and believing?

Is there a desire or expectation to constantly see no-doer 24/7?

If you expect to see this all the time, you can check, is there any other time than now?

And is there a permanent state? A final feeling? The last insight? Or this is ever fresh and spontaneous?

Is it OK to dive into a story OR that should not be happening?


Write what feels true.

Vivien
"In the seen, there is only the seen. In the heard, there is only the heard. In the sensed, there is only the sensed. You are located neither in this, nor in that, nor in any place between the two." - Buddha
http://fadingveiling.com/

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OnlyOne
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Re: Separating fact from fiction

Postby OnlyOne » Fri Sep 20, 2019 8:19 pm

Hello Vivien

Is there a ‘you’ moving between two different states? Between seeing and believing?

No, there's no 'me' at all.
Is there a desire or expectation to constantly see no-doer 24/7?

Yes, there is.

What feels true is that this shouldn't be the case.
If you expect to see this all the time, you can check, is there any other time than now?

There is never anything other than now.

And is there a permanent state? A final feeling? The last insight? Or this is ever fresh and spontaneous?

Everything in actual experience is continually changing. Nothing is permanent, last or final. It appears that only mind content suggests familiarity, permanency and finality.

Is it OK to dive into a story OR that should not be happening?

It seems that it's not ok to dive into a story but that the story should be seen as a story.

What feels true that everything should be ok as it is because it is.

I will continue to work with these questions.

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Vivien
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Re: Separating fact from fiction

Postby Vivien » Sat Sep 21, 2019 1:57 am

Hi OnlyOne,
It seems that it's not ok to dive into a story but that the story should be seen as a story.
If it’s not ok to dive into the story than it shows that it’s still believed that the story is belonging to and happening to someone.

So please do a very thorough search for that someone that the story is belonging to, or happening to.

It’s very easy to make a quick thought conclusion that there is no me, so it’s doesn’t belong to anyone. But please, don’t go there. Rather search through the whole body for this one that the story is happening to. Pay particular attention to the head and the chest.

Where is the experiencer of the story?

Inside the chest?
Or in the head? Where? In the eyes? Or behind the eyes? Or maybe at the center of the head? Or maybe closer to the scull at the back of the head? Find the exact spot.

Whom does that "story" belong?

Is there an experiencer of the story, separate from the story itself?
What feels true that everything should be ok as it is because it is.
And whose desire is that everything should be ok as it is?
Who wants to accept everything?

Is there someone experiencing what is happening and should be ok with it?

Who has the problem with the story?

Vivien
"In the seen, there is only the seen. In the heard, there is only the heard. In the sensed, there is only the sensed. You are located neither in this, nor in that, nor in any place between the two." - Buddha
http://fadingveiling.com/

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OnlyOne
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Re: Separating fact from fiction

Postby OnlyOne » Mon Sep 23, 2019 8:08 pm

Hi Viven,

I am going to spend some more time with these questions before I answer.

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Vivien
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Re: Separating fact from fiction

Postby Vivien » Mon Sep 23, 2019 11:57 pm

All right, thank you for letting me know.

Have a nice day :)
"In the seen, there is only the seen. In the heard, there is only the heard. In the sensed, there is only the sensed. You are located neither in this, nor in that, nor in any place between the two." - Buddha
http://fadingveiling.com/

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OnlyOne
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Re: Separating fact from fiction

Postby OnlyOne » Thu Sep 26, 2019 5:17 pm

Hello Vivien,

Where is the experiencer of the story?

Inside the chest?

Definitely not in there.
Or in the head? Where? In the eyes? Or behind the eyes? Or maybe at the center of the head? Or maybe closer to the scull at the back of the head? Find the exact spot.

I've looked very closely. There's a suggestion of one in the eyes. I can see a mental image of overlayed eyes looking (when reading for example) but eyes are not there in actual experience. These are being identified with as 'mine'.

I look for what this is appearing to and find nothing.

This is an area I definitely need some help with.

Whom does that "story" belong?

I can't find anything that this story belongs to.

Is there an experiencer of the story, separate from the story itself?

The story contains searching and looking but there's no one experiencing searching and looking

The experiencer is embedded in the story. There's no separate experiencer.


I am still working through the remaining questions.

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Vivien
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Re: Separating fact from fiction

Postby Vivien » Thu Sep 26, 2019 11:27 pm

I'll wait with my reply until you done with all the questions.

Have a nice day,
Vivien
"In the seen, there is only the seen. In the heard, there is only the heard. In the sensed, there is only the sensed. You are located neither in this, nor in that, nor in any place between the two." - Buddha
http://fadingveiling.com/

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OnlyOne
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Re: Separating fact from fiction

Postby OnlyOne » Fri Sep 27, 2019 7:32 pm

Hello Vivien,

The remaining answers are as follows:
And whose desire is that everything should be ok as it is?

The desire is part of a story which has no grounding in actual experience. The desire is irrelevant; there's nothing here that the desire can relate to or could gain anything. Desire is not real and neither is the story.

Who wants to accept everything?

There's no entity which want's anything.

Is there someone experiencing what is happening and should be ok with it?

No, there is no real someone.

Who has the problem with the story?

The problem is part of the story. The story relates to something which doesn't exist. I can't find anything which can have a problem.

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Vivien
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Re: Separating fact from fiction

Postby Vivien » Sat Sep 28, 2019 12:13 am

Hi OnlyOne,
V: Or in the head? Where? In the eyes? Or behind the eyes? Or maybe at the center of the head? Or maybe closer to the scull at the back of the head? Find the exact spot.
O: I've looked very closely. There's a suggestion of one in the eyes. I can see a mental image of overlayed eyes looking (when reading for example) but eyes are not there in actual experience. These are being identified with as 'mine'.
I look for what this is appearing to and find nothing.
This is an area I definitely need some help with.

So are you saying that the ‘me’ appears to be in the eyes?
Or behind the eyes?


Please put the attention onto the sensations of eyes. FEEL this sensation.
By feeling this sensation, what do you find there?
Can you FEEL a ‘me’ there?
Can you FEEL a looker/seer there?

Does the visual image of ‘overlayed eyes looking’ is the self?
Or does this image contain a self?


Vivien
"In the seen, there is only the seen. In the heard, there is only the heard. In the sensed, there is only the sensed. You are located neither in this, nor in that, nor in any place between the two." - Buddha
http://fadingveiling.com/

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OnlyOne
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Re: Separating fact from fiction

Postby OnlyOne » Sat Sep 28, 2019 10:17 pm

Hello Vivien,

So are you saying that the ‘me’ appears to be in the eyes?
Or behind the eyes?

At the time of writing, I was stating in the eyes. But that's not quite an accurate way of expressing it either. The eyes appearing in the visual thought content are just hanging there but not even giving the impression that they are looking. I can see the illusion as there are no eyes which are actually seen and the eyes in the visual 'eye' thoughts are not 'doing' any seeing.

Please put the attention onto the sensations of eyes. FEEL this sensation.
By feeling this sensation, what do you find there?

Some very subtle sensations.

Can you FEEL a ‘me’ there?

No, there are just sensations.

Can you FEEL a looker/seer there?

No. I also tried to feel the visual 'eye' thought and couldn't. I also recognised again that thoughts can't and don't 'do' anything.

Does the visual image of ‘overlayed eyes looking’ is the self?

I don't understand this question unfortunately.

Or does this image contain a self?

No, there's no self there.

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Vivien
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Re: Separating fact from fiction

Postby Vivien » Sun Sep 29, 2019 12:15 am

Hi OnlyOne,
The eyes appearing in the visual thought content are just hanging there but not even giving the impression that they are looking. I can see the illusion as there are no eyes which are actually seen and the eyes in the visual 'eye' thoughts are not 'doing' any seeing.
Yes, but remember, we are looking for an entity, for a me/self that is doing the seeing, not just visual thoughts about eyes doing the seeing, but a real, existing self/me.
V: Does the visual image of ‘overlayed eyes looking’ is the self?
O: I don't understand this question unfortunately.
In other words:
Is the visual thought is the self/me itself who sees?

If not, where is the SEER/me?

Is there a seer/me at all?


Vivien
"In the seen, there is only the seen. In the heard, there is only the heard. In the sensed, there is only the sensed. You are located neither in this, nor in that, nor in any place between the two." - Buddha
http://fadingveiling.com/

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OnlyOne
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Re: Separating fact from fiction

Postby OnlyOne » Tue Oct 01, 2019 7:54 pm

Hello Vivien,

Is the visual thought is the self/me itself who sees?

No, the thought doesn't see and there is no actual real me entity in that visual thought.

If not, where is the SEER/me?

The idea/appearance of a SEER/me is contained in thought which itself is just appearing, But there's no entity/thing which the thought is appearing to.

Is there a seer/me at all?

I really cannot find one.


There have been some really strong sensations appearing over the last couple of days. I'm trying my damnedest to find the thing which owns them but can't.

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Vivien
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Re: Separating fact from fiction

Postby Vivien » Tue Oct 01, 2019 11:55 pm

Hi OnlyOne,
There have been some really strong sensations appearing over the last couple of days. I'm trying my damnedest to find the thing which owns them but can't.
And WHAT is FEELING these sensations?

Is there an I/self feeling it?


Vivien
"In the seen, there is only the seen. In the heard, there is only the heard. In the sensed, there is only the sensed. You are located neither in this, nor in that, nor in any place between the two." - Buddha
http://fadingveiling.com/

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OnlyOne
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Re: Separating fact from fiction

Postby OnlyOne » Tue Oct 08, 2019 7:20 pm

Hello Vivien,

Apologies for not responding sooner. If I'm honest, there is a lot popping up at the moment; tiredness (a lot of that), boredom, sadness, frustration etc.

When I look for an owner of any of them, there's nothing.
And WHAT is FEELING these sensations?
There is nothing. I can't find anything.
Is there an I/self feeling it?
No, there are just the feelings.


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