Separating fact from fiction

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Vivien
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Re: Separating fact from fiction

Postby Vivien » Sun Sep 01, 2019 11:47 pm

Hi OnlyOne,
V: WHERE is this me/chooser/decider EXACTLY? – tell me the exact location
O: There definitely isn't one.
And what are the implications of this?

Please go to the fridge and take out some food or drink. Watch like a hawk.
How is a decision is made?
WHAT is making the decision?


During the day when there is a seeming choosing or decision making is happening, look for the exact moment when choosing happening.
Is there a chooser or decider at ANY time?

Vivien
"In the seen, there is only the seen. In the heard, there is only the heard. In the sensed, there is only the sensed. You are located neither in this, nor in that, nor in any place between the two." - Buddha
http://fadingveiling.com/

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OnlyOne
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Re: Separating fact from fiction

Postby OnlyOne » Mon Sep 02, 2019 9:49 pm

Hello Vivien,
V: WHERE is this me/chooser/decider EXACTLY? – tell me the exact location
O: There definitely isn't one.
And what are the implications of this?

There's nothing here to make a choice.

How is a decision is made?

A decision appears in thought although there's no choosing to make the decision thought appear. There is only the appearance of a decision.

WHAT is making the decision?

There is nothing which is making a decision.

Is there a chooser or decider at ANY time?

There's no chooser anywhere at any time.

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Vivien
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Re: Separating fact from fiction

Postby Vivien » Tue Sep 03, 2019 12:27 am

Hi OnlyOne,

Is it totally clear that there is no such thing a chooser?
Is it completely clear that there is no I/me choosing or deciding?

Is it totally clear that there is no such thing as choice or free will?

If not, please write some examples when it seems to be otherwise.

How do you see the “self” now?

Are you crystal clear that it is an illusion?
If not, please explain further.


Vivien
"In the seen, there is only the seen. In the heard, there is only the heard. In the sensed, there is only the sensed. You are located neither in this, nor in that, nor in any place between the two." - Buddha
http://fadingveiling.com/

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OnlyOne
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Re: Separating fact from fiction

Postby OnlyOne » Tue Sep 03, 2019 9:46 pm

Hi Vivien,
Is it totally clear that there is no such thing a chooser?
It is frequently seen that there is no chooser entity but that seeing becomes clouded at times. So no, it's not totally clear in that respect.
Is it completely clear that there is no I/me choosing or deciding?
Only when I take a step back and look.
Is it totally clear that there is no such thing as choice or free will?
As above.

If not, please write some examples when it seems to be otherwise.
It is not clear when thoughts impose themselves. As mentioned previously, this is particularly apparent when there are intense or prolonged 'uncomfortable' feeling. During this time there is a tendency to forget what has been clear before. Thoughts such as 'this is not how it's meant to be' creep in and are believed. There is also a deep feeling of frustration at times that I don't get it (although there's nothing to get).

NB I am still doing the exercises each and every morning.
How do you see the “self” now?
I don't see the self as anything. When it's looked for, nothing is found.
Are you crystal clear that it is an illusion?
If not, please explain further.
No, at times the illusion creates a reality about 'me' which is frequently convincing, believed and tells a story. There also seems to be a continuous cycle of 'trying' to see through things.

I'm having a difficult time explaining precisely where I am at the moment.

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OnlyOne
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Re: Separating fact from fiction

Postby OnlyOne » Tue Sep 03, 2019 9:49 pm

Looking at what I've written, there seem to be a lot of expectations in there.

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Vivien
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Re: Separating fact from fiction

Postby Vivien » Tue Sep 03, 2019 11:51 pm

Hi OnlyOne,
Looking at what I've written, there seem to be a lot of expectations in there.
Yes, there are big expectations here. And ALL expectations are hindrances to see what is here, now. So it's time to re-examine them.
It is frequently seen that there is no chooser entity but that seeing becomes clouded at times. So no, it's not totally clear in that respect.
Is there an expectation here that seeing no-chooser should be constantly on 24/7?
V: Is it completely clear that there is no I/me choosing or deciding?
O: Only when I take a step back and look.
So when it’s not looked at, a chooser comes out of its hiding place and sneaks in?
And when it’s looked at then the chooser is out of sight hiding somewhere?

There is either a chooser or not. If there is an entity (chooser) then it cannot be turned on and off. Or maybe it can?
As mentioned previously, this is particularly apparent when there are intense or prolonged 'uncomfortable' feeling. During this time there is a tendency to forget what has been clear before. Thoughts such as 'this is not how it's meant to be' creep in and are believed.
“this is not how it’s meant to be” – So HOW is it meant to be?

Are you after a state or a different experience than how IT IS?
There is also a deep feeling of frustration at times that I don't get it (although there's nothing to get).
Is it REALLY seen that there is nothing to get this, or is this rather an intellectual deduction?

When there are thoughts of “I don’t get do” – do you stop and ACTIVELY SEARCH for the I that doesn’t get it?

Vivien
"In the seen, there is only the seen. In the heard, there is only the heard. In the sensed, there is only the sensed. You are located neither in this, nor in that, nor in any place between the two." - Buddha
http://fadingveiling.com/

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OnlyOne
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Re: Separating fact from fiction

Postby OnlyOne » Wed Sep 04, 2019 8:15 pm

Hello Vivien,

Is there an expectation here that seeing no-chooser should be constantly on 24/7?

Yes there has been, or at least that it should be easy to see or be accessible at all times.

So when it’s not looked at, a chooser comes out of its hiding place and sneaks in?

There is an appearance of a 'me' choosing (or 'suffering' etc), in thought, which arises which is identified with.

And when it’s looked at then the chooser is out of sight hiding somewhere?

No, there is a realisation through actual experience validation that there is no 'me' to make a choice'. it's not there at all. There's no 'me' as an entity which is choosing. The caveat around this is that during 'intense' periods, it becomes very difficult to look/validate.

There is either a chooser or not. If there is an entity (chooser) then it cannot be turned on and off. Or maybe it can?

When things are clear, the experience is that there is no chooser.
“this is not how it’s meant to be” – So HOW is it meant to be?

I understand that it's meant to be as it's meant to be and there is a reminder of this when things appear to be 'wrong'. Expectations appear to be being identified with causing me to not accept how it is when 'suffering', or 'me' occurs.
Are you after a state or a different experience than how IT IS?

I appear to be after a continuous state of ease or 'just happening' which is experienced on a regular basis. If this isn't how it is, it is deemed 'wrong'.
Is it REALLY seen that there is nothing to get this, or is this rather an intellectual deduction?

There can be a very clear experience of nothing to get this; just sounds, taste, stuff/everything, sensations being there (actual experience not happening to a body or entity). The best way to describe this would be an open spaciousness without any boundaries. I look and there's nothing there except for what is there.
When there are thoughts of “I don’t get it” – do you stop and ACTIVELY SEARCH for the I that doesn’t get it?

I can't say for sure that this always happens. I try to remain as aware and accepting as possible to absolutely everything which happens throughout each day (including unpleasant experiences) starting as soon as I wake up to the time I go to sleep.

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Vivien
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Re: Separating fact from fiction

Postby Vivien » Thu Sep 05, 2019 12:47 am

Hi OnlyOne,
V: There is either a chooser or not. If there is an entity (chooser) then it cannot be turned on and off. Or maybe it can?
O: When things are clear, the experience is that there is no chooser.
You didn’t answer my question. Please read my above questions again.

There is either a chooser or not. If there is an entity (chooser) then it cannot be turned on and off. Or maybe it can?
when things appear to be 'wrong'. Expectations appear to be being identified with causing me to not accept how it is when 'suffering', or 'me' occurs….
I appear to be after a continuous state of ease or 'just happening' which is experienced on a regular basis. If this isn't how it is, it is deemed 'wrong'.
Be careful with expectation. Expectations are ideas based on the desires of a separate self.

All of that emotions comes up. And it seems to matter, because it’s still believed that those emotions are belonging to SOMEONE.

But look, does emotions BELONG to a ‘you’?


Suffering comes up. Check for the "I" who suffers. Is one there?
If not, then does suffering anchor anywhere in reality?


All states are fleeting. States will come and go, but the freedom is in seeing that if there seems to be a chord, tape, or glue sticking it to something or someone, a simple check for what it's sticking to reveals the nature of reality.

Look right now... is there an emotion appearing? Find the glue, chord, or tape that is sticking it to something. Is there one?

Without relying on what society and conditioning has told you, close your eyes.
Is the emotion ACTUALLY inside something or is it just sort of hanging somewhere unlocatable?

Really examine this closely.
I try to remain as aware and accepting as possible to absolutely everything which happens throughout each day (including unpleasant experiences) starting as soon as I wake up to the time I go to sleep.
“I try to remain as aware and accepting as possible…” – you see, things are believed to belong to ME, and I am the one that is trying to manage the reactions to everything that shows up.

Look for the ONE that is trying to remain aware. Where is it?
Look for the ONE that is trying to be as accepting as possible. What is it?
V: Is there an expectation here that seeing no-chooser should be constantly on 24/7?
O: Yes there has been, or at least that it should be easy to see or be accessible at all times.
For what? For what should this state of seeing no-chooser should be accessible?
What is it that sometimes can access it and other times it cannot?


I’ve asked lots of questions, please look at them very carefully. Don’t rush.

Vivien
"In the seen, there is only the seen. In the heard, there is only the heard. In the sensed, there is only the sensed. You are located neither in this, nor in that, nor in any place between the two." - Buddha
http://fadingveiling.com/

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OnlyOne
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Re: Separating fact from fiction

Postby OnlyOne » Thu Sep 05, 2019 12:39 pm

Hello Vivien,

Thank you for this. There is a lot to review here so I will sit with the questions and come back to you once I’ve had time to really and fully get to grips with them. The questions themselves are nice and pointy so thanks for that.

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OnlyOne
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Re: Separating fact from fiction

Postby OnlyOne » Fri Sep 06, 2019 6:02 pm

Hi Vivien,

I've spent a lot of time with these questions.

There is either a chooser or not. If there is an entity (chooser) then it cannot be turned on and off. Or maybe it can?

There is no choosing entity at all. There's nothing which appears and disappears.
But look, does emotions BELONG to a ‘you’?

No. There's nothing in between or connected to thoughts and sensations. They may appear to arise together, joined, but they are separate in actual experience

Suffering comes up. Check for the "I" who suffers. Is one there?

There's no entity which suffers. Zilch.

If not, then does suffering anchor anywhere in reality?

Suffering does not attach to anything in actual experience. I've looked - it does not apply to actual experience.

Look right now... is there an emotion appearing? Find the glue, chord, or tape that is sticking it to something. Is there one?

Yes but there is nothing here for anything to stick to.

Is the emotion ACTUALLY inside something or is it just sort of hanging somewhere unlocatable?

It's definitely not inside anything at all. There is no container. There's no 'me' boundary. It's there, appearing at no specific location.

Look for the ONE that is trying to remain aware. Where is it?

There's nothing to be found here to be aware.

Look for the ONE that is trying to be as accepting as possible. What is it?

There is nothing which is trying and nothing which is accepting.

For what? For what should this state of seeing no-chooser should be accessible?

There is no reason. There's nothing here for this state to be accessible to.

What is it that sometimes can access it and other times it cannot?

There's nothing here to access it, there's only what's here.

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Vivien
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Re: Separating fact from fiction

Postby Vivien » Sat Sep 07, 2019 1:35 am

Hi OnlyOne,

So, how does it FEEL that suffering doesn’t attach to anything? That there is LITERALLY NOTHING that could suffer?

Is it totally clear that there is no such thing a chooser?
Is it completely clear that there is no I/me choosing or deciding?

Is it totally clear that there is no such thing as choice or free will?

If not, please write some examples when it seems to be otherwise.

Vivien
"In the seen, there is only the seen. In the heard, there is only the heard. In the sensed, there is only the sensed. You are located neither in this, nor in that, nor in any place between the two." - Buddha
http://fadingveiling.com/

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OnlyOne
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Re: Separating fact from fiction

Postby OnlyOne » Sun Sep 08, 2019 9:23 pm

Hi Vivien,

Every time I look at these questions and write answers, I can't do so without contradiction and going round in an infinite loop.
So, how does it FEEL that suffering doesn’t attach to anything? That there is LITERALLY NOTHING that could suffer?
I have tried to come up with an answer but am unable to.
Is it totally clear that there is no such thing a chooser?
Yes, it is clear that there's no ''chooser' entity.
Is it completely clear that there is no I/me choosing or deciding?
No, this is not clear.
Is it totally clear that there is no such thing as choice or free will?
No, this is not totally clear.

If not, please write some examples when it seems to be otherwise.

There has been an increase in the intensity of emotions and thought over the past couple of days although during this time I have not been able to find a 'me' that they relate to. However, there is a belief that there is the ability to decide or choose or try despite seeing that no deciding or choosing entity exists. When I look for the one which believes, I can't find one. There is still the expectation that what is should be otherwise.

I could sit on these questions for days but wanted to respond.

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Vivien
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Re: Separating fact from fiction

Postby Vivien » Mon Sep 09, 2019 12:03 am

Hi OnlyOne,
However, there is a belief that there is the ability to decide or choose or try despite seeing that no deciding or choosing entity exists.
OK. Look for the ABILITY to choose or decide or try.

Where is this ability located?
In the hand which picks up objects?
Or maybe in the legs somewhere to help with walking?
Or is this ability inside the chest maybe?
Or is it somewhere in the head?
Where is it exactly?


Hoes does this ability look like? How big it is? What shape it has?

Is it like a machine which can be used for choosing, deciding or trying?
How does this ability work or function?

What is operating this ability?

What owns this ability?
What does this ability belongs to?
When I look for the one which believes, I can't find one. There is still the expectation that what is should be otherwise.
I don’t understand. What is this expectation? What should be otherwise?

Vivien
"In the seen, there is only the seen. In the heard, there is only the heard. In the sensed, there is only the sensed. You are located neither in this, nor in that, nor in any place between the two." - Buddha
http://fadingveiling.com/

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OnlyOne
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Re: Separating fact from fiction

Postby OnlyOne » Mon Sep 09, 2019 6:22 pm

Hi Vivien,
Where is this ability located?

There's no 'ability' in anything. Nothing in actual experience is anything other than as it is.
In the hand which picks up objects?

Not there.
Or maybe in the legs somewhere to help with walking?

Not there either.
Or is this ability inside the chest maybe?

Nothing there.
Or is it somewhere in the head?

Not there.
Where is it exactly?

It's nowhere.

Hoes does this ability look like? How big it is? What shape it has?
Is it like a machine which can be used for choosing, deciding or trying?
How does this ability work or function?
What is operating this ability?
What owns this ability?
What does this ability belongs to?

To all of the above - there's no ability in anything in actual experience and it doesn't look like something because it's made up.
There's also nothing to which a concocted ability relates.
I don’t understand. What is this expectation?

The expectation was based on a comparison to an idea of what should be which has no relation to what is.
What should be otherwise?

It's based on a a ridiculous notion that things as they are at any given moment can be different.

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Vivien
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Re: Separating fact from fiction

Postby Vivien » Mon Sep 09, 2019 11:41 pm

Hi OnlyOne,
To all of the above - there's no ability in anything in actual experience and it doesn't look like something because it's made up.
There's also nothing to which a concocted ability relates.
So, if it’s clear that there is no ability to choose and there is nothing that this supposed ability could be linked to, then let’s go back to see if there is a I/me or ANYTHING at all that is choosing or deciding.

Is it totally clear that there is no such thing a chooser?

Is it completely clear that there is no I/me choosing or deciding?

Is it totally clear that there is no such thing as choice or free will?

If not, please write some examples when it seems to be otherwise.

Vivien
"In the seen, there is only the seen. In the heard, there is only the heard. In the sensed, there is only the sensed. You are located neither in this, nor in that, nor in any place between the two." - Buddha
http://fadingveiling.com/


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