Clarity

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Plant31
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Clarity

Postby Plant31 » Wed Aug 07, 2019 8:01 pm

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
I understand that there is no separate self, there is no ‘I’ identity. I see the ‘I’ concept as an illusion but get lost in the idea of no control. I understand that life is happening and there is no one to do anything. However, decisions on reorganising life circumstances is troubling me. Do I leave thoughts alone and go with the flow?

What are you looking for at LU?
Clarity on a few area where I am getting lost/stuck. For example, if there is no self, how can I choose which thoughts to follow or trust? I know there is no I to choose. So do I disregard all thought?
Also in relation to romantic love, if there is no self and no one else to love is there such a thing, is it not just chemicals and sensations? Is there not just unconditional love?
In relation to addiction, I know drinking alcohol is harmful but I still do it. I wouldnt say to a destructive level but I don’t want to drink anymore. Seeing the illusion of self hasn’t helped.
If all of consciousness is playing out perfectly as it should be, how does misfortune fit in. I know the true self doesn’t know suffering but from an outsider perspective some situations are terrible. If we all saw the illusion would these situations cease I.e. war, murders, abuse, violence etc.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
To help me see the illusion. To challenge my thought patterns/beliefs/ideas. To help point me in the direction to truly know myself rather than intellectually understanding. To be honest with me and open. Thank you

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
I’ve studied yoga as a teacher training course, i’ve sat on vipassana silent retreats, then I came across non-duality, the 3 principles, Dzogen Buddhist teachings, Mooji, Rupert Spira in the last 15 months which has all taken me in a different direction of self inquiry.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self?
11

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Seamist
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Re: Clarity

Postby Seamist » Sun Aug 25, 2019 12:44 pm

Hi,
My name is Sioned and I can guide you, provided that you're able and willing to least at least once a day (exceptions are allowed, of course, but I ask that you let me know if you're unable to post for any particular reason: I will do the same myself). I find that this makes all the difference to the guiding.
How does that sound? There are more "housekeeping" matters, but I can go into those with you once you've responded to this initial post.
x Sioned

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Plant31
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Re: Clarity

Postby Plant31 » Mon Aug 26, 2019 9:54 pm

Hi Sioned,
Thank you for agreeing to be my guide. Yes I can write every day now. I will let you know if that changes.
Thank you
Becca


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Seamist
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Re: Clarity

Postby Seamist » Mon Aug 26, 2019 9:59 pm

That's great, Becca
I'm just heading to bed, so will post more in the morning.
Have your read the stuff about LU on this site? And is now a good time for your to do this work, given anything else that might be going on in your life at the moment?
Sioned

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Plant31
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Re: Clarity

Postby Plant31 » Mon Aug 26, 2019 10:04 pm

Yes I have read all the guidelines and this has come at a good time, so am I ready! :)
Sleep well


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Seamist
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Re: Clarity

Postby Seamist » Tue Aug 27, 2019 10:05 am

Good Morning, Becca,
Let's begin by clearing the path
Say this aloud to yourself three times:
There is no separate self at all in reality. No agent that is in charge, no manager, no watcher, no owner of life; all there is is life flowing freely as one movement.
Watch, wait, notice - what comes up? Is there fear? Is there a doubt? Resistance? Frustration? Something that wants to scream and make a turn away, something that says this is not working? Or maybe there is a feeling of wow, joy, relief?
Notice all that is going on inside and let me know what you find

(things in bold are an instruction,by the way)
x Sioned

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Plant31
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Re: Clarity

Postby Plant31 » Tue Aug 27, 2019 10:56 am

An initial yes! So much relief, space. I love the idea that life is flowing freely. Then some doubt and confusion around no agent in charge. For the last year I surrendered to this idea and ‘allowed’ myself to do whatever came into my life. I found I was drinking more than I wanted to (although part of me did want to) eating less healthy and I stopped meditation, yoga and running. Did my ego take charge? Is the free reign to do what we want a trick of the ego and discipline is still required? Although I have come full circle again and have now reset the non-drinking mode and eating healthy again out of choice. But who is choosing? Maybe innate health always finds a way though. Is it all ok? Is it all equal?
Maybe I do have an expectation that an awakening will support healthier lifestyle choices.
It creates confusion in me when I hear that we are not choosing, there is no chooser but then I am choosing to engage in this? Although I know there is no ‘i’. I am choosing a path of truth and self inquiry. Are we saying truth and self inquiry is just unfolding? If so why the unhealthy stuff then too?


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Seamist
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Re: Clarity

Postby Seamist » Tue Aug 27, 2019 11:02 am

Just need to check how much you're drinking currently?

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Plant31
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Re: Clarity

Postby Plant31 » Tue Aug 27, 2019 11:11 am

Nothing since Thursday where I had one small glass of wine. Before that, 1 drink a day, sometimes nothing. Most the time nothing. Weekend a couple more.
I wouldn’t say I have a problem, I just don’t want to drink at all as I have seen the destruction it can have and don’t feel it’s healthy to drink alcohol but it seems to be a big part of our culture here.


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Seamist
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Re: Clarity

Postby Seamist » Tue Aug 27, 2019 11:16 am

Ok, just needed to check - as it could get in the way if you were drinking any significant amount.

Back to your actual comments on the statement, then..
You said:
An initial yes! So much relief, space. I love the idea that life is flowing freely. Then some doubt and confusion around no agent in charge
Sounds like a clear, followed by the thinking mind coming in quite strongly...

Is there any fear?
Repeat the phrase again as before and see if you notice any coming up

X Sioned

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Plant31
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Re: Clarity

Postby Plant31 » Tue Aug 27, 2019 11:21 am

No, no fear at all. It’s more of a welcoming and relief feeling.

Then the thinking comes. Questioning.


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Seamist
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Re: Clarity

Postby Seamist » Tue Aug 27, 2019 11:25 am

Ok, we can skip that one (the fear), then!

Let's go in to explore your expectations.
What do you expect that liberation is going to be like?
What do you want from it?

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Plant31
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Re: Clarity

Postby Plant31 » Tue Aug 27, 2019 12:01 pm

Expectations
It’s hard to know what to expect without a first hand experience (although there have been glimpses). I feel open to seeing what happens. I suppose more glimpses of our natural state of peace and being ok with whatever state, thoughts or experience that arises.

Wants
To be guided in a way that encourages the self identify to fully fall away. Here is the fear...I was then going to say without loosing the sense of who I am and my place in the world but then I know I would engage in the world in the same way. It’s that old saying ‘before enlightenment chop wood and carry water, after enlightenment chop wood and carry water’.
I don’t have any expectations of a big bang enlightenment experience, I’ve come to thinking, through recent experiences that through self inquiry the self identity gradually falls away. My concern is that the ego is sneaking in through the back door! When I think I’ve got it, I know I haven’t got it at all as their is nothing to get it’s just my ego trying to make it a thing. So my wants are some help to shine a light on the ego or to help me see where I am getting lost or stuck. Thank you Sioned.




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Seamist
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Re: Clarity

Postby Seamist » Tue Aug 27, 2019 1:42 pm

Sounds good so far.
Here's some further questions in this arena, just for completeness.
How do you imagine a liberated human behaves?
What should it be like?
What will it give you, what do you hope for?
What don't you want it to be like?

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Plant31
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Re: Clarity

Postby Plant31 » Tue Aug 27, 2019 4:15 pm

How do you imagine a liberated human behaves?

My idealist views would say, graceful. Kind and considerate towards others. Selfless. Less pulled into the illusion of separation and seeing the ego for what it is. Most of the time!! Then sometimes they would be the opposite as they are still human so all experience is possible!
My original thoughts were that they would be like a super human, capable of much more. Able to live a life without the limitations of fear based thoughts. But now I realise that this is not always true. Conditioning runs deep and capabilities can still be limited. Most behaviours would therefore be the same.

What should it be like?

I’m not sure what this question is asking. Do you mean if I had a magic wand? If that was the case, we would all act like the beings of pure love that we are. Without judgements for ourselves and others.

What will it give you, what do you hope for?

I think largely things will be the same but the way I see the world might shift. I hope to be free from the illusion. To have more trust in the process of life (i.e. decisions). To feel connected to everything, to really KNOW my true self as part of everything. To be less driven toward desires and away from fears.
To really know that everything is part of me. This is the bit I struggle with.

What don't you want it to be like?

This question is also hard to answer. I don’t have much thoughts about this. Do I have to think of something? I’m open to nothing changing so the only thing I wouldn’t want to happen would be to go back into old ways of thinking, but I don’t think this can happen once the illusion has been seen.


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