What we are looking for is what’s looking

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EsUno
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What we are looking for is what’s looking

Postby EsUno » Sun Jun 16, 2019 3:10 am

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
That everything we see and experience is one. There is no separation from us and the rest of the world, it’s all through consciousness. There is no separation.

What are you looking for at LU?
I feel like I’m very close to seeing and that I already had a glimpse but somehow it faded. This occurred after reading Gateless Gatecrashers and following along with the guides and the guided. I’d like to solidify what I feel like I already had a taste of. I want to say that I already have a decent understanding of some of these teachings but wonder if that’s actually true (if it were, I don’t think I’d be here). I’d like to see what it is I’m missing.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
Someone who can help me to see blind spots in the understanding. I haven’t found anyone to really discuss this stuff with and I feel like perhaps there’s a gap in my understanding or experience that I’m too close to, to see. I’m hoping for someone to help guide me through some questions and hold the answers accountable.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
Largely self-study for he past 2 years or so. Prior to this, very little. Over the past 6 months, I’ve read and watched and listened everything I can get my hands on.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self?
10

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Ilona
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Re: What we are looking for is what’s looking

Postby Ilona » Thu Jul 04, 2019 6:20 pm

Hi EsUno,
Welcome to The forum. Thank you for patience waiting for a guide. We can have a conversation and see where it takes you.

You say you had a glimpse already. Wonderful. It’s beem a while since you cam here. Has anything changed?
What are you looking for?

Love.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

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EsUno
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Re: What we are looking for is what’s looking

Postby EsUno » Thu Jul 04, 2019 8:11 pm

Thank you Llona, I appreciate you taking the time.

It has been a little while but I've been checking back periodically, it's been busy around here!

I guess what I'm after is a "solid knowing" of truth. I did have an experience that shifted my perceptions and things seemed crystal clear for a bit. But that shift left as quickly as it came. Almost as if my ego dug in its heels overnight to keep itself from being forgotten.

I've tried revisiting some of the direct path questions that I had been working on prior to this and it's kind of like my mind gets foggy towards them or they're less meaningful somehow. I think it may help to have someone on the other end.

Hopefully that makes some sense. I'm a little confused by all of this to be honest.

PS - you can call me Cody

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Ilona
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Re: What we are looking for is what’s looking

Postby Ilona » Fri Jul 05, 2019 1:26 pm

Hi Cody,
Thank you for reply. Let’s start digging right away.

When I say there is no self, none as in zero, there is no entity in charge, no manager, no with ness, no one separate from life itself, what comes up for you?

Let this thought in and write the immediate response, how body reacts, what thoughts show up?

Looking forward to your answer.

Love
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

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EsUno
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Re: What we are looking for is what’s looking

Postby EsUno » Fri Jul 05, 2019 8:03 pm

When I say there is no self, none as in zero, there is no entity in charge, no manager, no with ness, no one separate from life itself, what comes up for you?

Let this thought in and write the immediate response, how body reacts, what thoughts show up?

That I want to believe that's true and that thought seems very liberating to me, at least on the surface. It seems to make sense on at an academic level but I feel like there are so many things that run through my mind over the course of any given day that it seems almost too simple to be true.

Almost as if: if that's true then all the worries and anxiety of life have been for nothing and I'm so programmed to overthink and complicate things that it would be too easy of a solution.

My inclination is that I'm fighting that belief as it's too freeing. As backwards as that may seem. It's such a perfect solution that I can't let myself completely buy in or that would mean I'm not important and all my neurosis would be in vain.

Seems like a very narcissistic viewpoint but that's what I"m getting from thinking over what you typed.

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EsUno
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Re: What we are looking for is what’s looking

Postby EsUno » Fri Jul 05, 2019 8:17 pm

Also, sorry for calling you "Llona". I've always read your name that way and just realized that it's Ilona!

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Re: What we are looking for is what’s looking

Postby Ilona » Sat Jul 06, 2019 1:20 pm

Yes, it is very simple and yes all the worries and anxiety are optional. If you want to keep worrying, that’s fine, but it’s not necessary. Worrying does not make things happen. Worrying comes with thoughts about future, all the what ifs scenarios, thinking about what is not happening. It’s ok to stop worrying. Absolutely safe.

What is here without worrying?
Is life something you do or something that is happening?
What is not happening on automatic?


Love.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

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EsUno
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Re: What we are looking for is what’s looking

Postby EsUno » Sat Jul 06, 2019 7:57 pm

What is here without worrying?
Is life something you do or something that is happening?
What is not happening on automatic?
- Without worrying, life seems pretty damned good. Without worry, life would just happen and things would play out, I guess in the same way as before but without the worry there to make it uncomfortable?

On the other hand, it seems like some worry is good or life would become a big hedonistic party where nothing ever gets done.

This is a tough question for me. My first response left out this second part regarding some worry being good. I can’t help but wonder if that second party isn’t a false belief that I need to shake.

- Life is something that is happening. I feel like the things we decide to do or don’t do can change what happens within the happening though. But given a choice between life being something we do or just happening, I’d say it’s just happening.


- It feels like the choices we make are not automatic. The decisions I make day to day feel like my own. Peeling this back further though, to say that the choices we make personally are the only things in the world that aren’t on automatic, that seems flawed. Nearly everything in the world other is based on some combination of different people’s choices. So to say that everything is automatic but personal choice doesn’t really add up when thinking about it on a broader scale. I guess it’s all automatic but it doesn’t seem that way within the day to day.


This has been really helpful to think through already. Thank you again!




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Ilona
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Re: What we are looking for is what’s looking

Postby Ilona » Mon Jul 08, 2019 2:23 pm

Thank you for answer.
On the other hand, it seems like some worry is good or life would become a big hedonistic party where nothing ever gets done.
Interesting... is that really so?
What is worry good for? What problem does worrying fix? Is it useful? Is it helpful?
Explore this.

Ok, let’s look closer. You say that personal decisions are not automatic. Find one decision, that is made independently of circumstances and situation. How is decision made?
And take look, don’t guess. Investigate. Want to see the truth if it.

Report with what you notice.

Love.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

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EsUno
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Re: What we are looking for is what’s looking

Postby EsUno » Mon Jul 08, 2019 10:24 pm

Interesting... is that really so?
What is worry good for? What problem does worrying fix? Is it useful? Is it helpful?
Explore this.

The more I consider this, the more I think it's not helpful or useful or needed. There can be thinking/planning/preparing without worrying. I guess it's more of a learned habit than anything but I think you're right, it doesn't have a purpose.
Ok, let’s look closer. You say that personal decisions are not automatic. Find one decision, that is made independently of circumstances and situation. How is decision made?
And take look, don’t guess. Investigate. Want to see the truth if it

This is tricky. I'm going to pay attention and ponder this some more before replying. Thanks for pointing out to take a look and not guess or give a canned response (with these tougher questions, I think that might be my default!)

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EsUno
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Re: What we are looking for is what’s looking

Postby EsUno » Tue Jul 09, 2019 3:37 am

A little perplexed by how to correctly test this (or perhaps it’s just the result I don’t want to admit) but as far as I can tell, personal decisions do just seem to kind of happen. I suppose based on prior decisions and circumstances, conditioning, etc.

Still seems very off but I couldn’t think of a way to show otherwise.

It was more like I was waiting to see what I’d do next.

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Ilona
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Re: What we are looking for is what’s looking

Postby Ilona » Tue Jul 09, 2019 1:26 pm

Yep, all those personal decisions happen in sync with situation, conditioning and flow out as the right choice.
What else is there that is not happening on automatic? What do you need to do in order to be?
What do you need to understand in order to be?

Love.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

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EsUno
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Re: What we are looking for is what’s looking

Postby EsUno » Tue Jul 09, 2019 4:51 pm

Can you think of a good way to kind of test that out? The personal choice vs automatic? Feel like this might be a sticking point for me in the past

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Re: What we are looking for is what’s looking

Postby Ilona » Tue Jul 09, 2019 7:24 pm

Ok, try this exercise.
Before reading further, lift your left hand above the head. Just for the fun of it.
Done?

........

Did the arm lift?

........

Was there a decision to lift it or not?


What happened first? Action, impulse to do it or thought about it?

What made the arm lift (or not)? Is that a decision?
Could it have happened differently?

.....


Through the day try this again, just lift the hand up and see, how it happens, catch the moment. Describe what feels true for you.



Love.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

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EsUno
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Re: What we are looking for is what’s looking

Postby EsUno » Wed Jul 10, 2019 3:46 am


Was there a decision to lift it or not?


What happened first? Action, impulse to do it or thought about it?

What made the arm lift (or not)? Is that a decision?
Could it have happened differently?

.....


Through the day try this again, just lift the hand up and see, how it happens, catch the moment. Describe what feels true for you.



Love.

Interesting. I read what you wrote to lift my left arm, then just did it. It almost seemed like it was simultaneous - I read it, then just did it. No real thought or decision that I could notice or discern.

On a academic level, want to say I read it, thought about it, impulse, then action.

In experience it was more like - I read it, then it happened. So if there’s thought and impulse mixed in, it’s nearly instantaneous?

Feel like I missed the boat with this one maybe….?



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