Fear decreasing

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Vivien
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Location: Australia

Re: Fear decreasing

Postby Vivien » Tue Aug 25, 2020 1:53 am

Hi Nameless,
It happened again that i did not receive an email from 'admin' letting me know that you had responded. This is only the second time it's happened, but not sure why it's happening.
The notification email is automated, and sometimes, for unknown reasons, it’s not working correctly. Nobody knows why.
that if the illusion is seen through that Nameless will not fight for her life; there will not be enough desire to fight, that Nameless will be passive and then the story continues and i don't like the any of the possible endings.
How do you know this?
How do you know that Nameless won’t fight for her life?
How do you know that she won’t have enough desire to fight?
How do you know that she will be passive?

What is your proof that this is what is going to happen?

And when you say “I don’t like any of the possible ending” – who is that that doesn’t like it, you or Nameless?
that they are thoughts making a story; the problem, as far as i can see, is that i believe them and i can't UN-believe them.
Do you know how to un-believe a thought? The first step is to recognize that it’s a thought in the moment when it’s happening. This is important. It needs to be seen to be only a thought in the very moment when it’s happening.
And when it’s noticed to be only a thought, you can investigate how do you know that that thought is telling the truth. What is the proof to those claims?
I do not KNOW this will happen, it is thoughts saying it will and believing is happening.
You are not as powerless as you think you are :) thoughts say all sorts of things, but it doesn’t mean that they are true. You have the ability to pause when these thoughts appear and investigate if they actually telling the truth.

For un-believing to happen, the validity of those thoughts needs to be checked again and again.

Vivien
The most profound discoveries arise from questioning the obvious.

Website: https://www.viviennovak.com/

Blog: https://fadingveiling.com/

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Nameless1
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Re: Fear decreasing

Postby Nameless1 » Wed Aug 26, 2020 4:48 pm

Hi Vivien,
How do you know this?
I do not know these things will happen. Now, thoughts say: "well it could happen, then IF it happens I will be up the creek. It is better to be safe than sorry." Now, thoughts say: "There really is no safety anywhere, no one gets out of here alive anyway. Besides, there is really no person here that needs to be safe. ....yeah but what if i do become passive?" So here's the new loop. lol crazy!
How do you know that Nameless won’t fight for her life?
I do not know. I think the only things that can be known.....or experienced, are hearing, taste, seeing, sensations, smell. Wondering how thoughts are 'experienced' or 'known,' can't see touch hear smell or taste them....they're experienced as images..just in the 'mind' and not with eyes. ?
How do you know that she won’t have enough desire to fight?
I do not know this. Assumptions/thoughts are appearing and being believed...who believes them? Looking.....it is just a thought that is saying: 'i do.' i can not find a believer, but then it seems like Nameless is here again and is the one believing them. Frustrating!
How do you know that she will be passive?
Looking again... I can not predict the future, nor can i see future events of any kind happening. Where is the one that even would have the possibility to see or not to see into the future? Flickering again..Nameless appears to be real, then no person or separate identity can be located.
What is your proof that this is what is going to happen?
I have none.

A
nd when you say “I don’t like any of the possible ending” – who is that that doesn’t like it, you or Nameless?
Looking....good question. 'I' appears to always refer to Nameless! lol So do the words: my, me, mine---they always refer to Nameless. lol ....well, back to 'being' Nameless again. sigh

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Vivien
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Re: Fear decreasing

Postby Vivien » Thu Aug 27, 2020 3:35 am

Hi Nameless,
I do not know these things will happen. Now, thoughts say: "well it could happen, then IF it happens I will be up the creek. It is better to be safe than sorry." Now, thoughts say: "There really is no safety anywhere, no one gets out of here alive anyway. Besides, there is really no person here that needs to be safe. ....yeah but what if i do become passive?" So here's the new loop. lol crazy!
Just notice if you are the thinker of these thoughts.
Notice, if you make these thoughts happen.
Notice, if you make a decision prior to think these thoughts. Or you are aware of then only when they are present, but not before?
Wondering how thoughts are 'experienced' or 'known,' can't see touch hear smell or taste them....they're experienced as images..just in the 'mind' and not with eyes. ?
Does it matter how? Trying to figure it out how thoughts are known would be only a speculation. Just another story we could tell ourselves.

Rather, just notice that when a thought is there, it’s automatically known. Can you see this?
I do not know this. Assumptions/thoughts are appearing and being believed...who believes them? Looking.....it is just a thought that is saying: 'i do.' i can not find a believer, but then it seems like Nameless is here again and is the one believing them. Frustrating!
When you say “it seems like Nameless is here again” then how does Nameless appear exactly?
In what shape or form Nameless is here? In what way?
Are thoughts about Nameless, Nameless itself?
Where is the one that even would have the possibility to see or not to see into the future?
Is there any other time than now?
Is it possible to be anywhere else than here and now?
When there is a thought about the future, WHEN does that thought happen?

When there is a thought about the future, then that thought is literally about the future that will come?
Or that thought is just another thought appearing, and only the content suggests that it’s about the future and not about something else?

And how do you know exactly that a particular thought is about the future? What is it that is providing this information?


Vivien
The most profound discoveries arise from questioning the obvious.

Website: https://www.viviennovak.com/

Blog: https://fadingveiling.com/

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Nameless1
Posts: 149
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Re: Fear decreasing

Postby Nameless1 » Fri Aug 28, 2020 11:44 pm

Hi Vivien,
Just notice if you are the thinker of these thoughts.
Notice, if you make these thoughts happen.
Notice, if you make a decision prior to think these thoughts. Or you are aware of then only when they are present, but not before?
If you define, thinking, as me making the thoughts appear and/or me choosing what thoughts to think, then, No, I am not the thinker of any thoughts.
Rather, just notice that when a thought is there, it’s automatically known. Can you see this?
Yes.
When you say “it seems like Nameless is here again” then how does Nameless appear exactly? In what shape or form Nameless is here? In what way?
I seem to be here as thoughts, sensations. And, something seems familiar, like behind the eyes...well, I guess maybe it's thoughts...and sensations; it just seems really familiar to me, but I have no shape or form.
Are thoughts about Nameless, Nameless itself?
No.
Is there any other time than now?
Looking, the answer appears to be, no. Of course, thoughts want to argue that i have scars that prove there is a past time. Then thoughts say, yeah, but they happened in the now. Then thoughts say, so time existed before.
Is it possible to be anywhere else than here and now?
No.
When there is a thought about the future, WHEN does that thought happen?
Now.
When there is a thought about the future, then that thought is literally about the future that will come?
Well, possibly. I could possibly be correct in my assumptions, or rather, thoughts could be correct about what will happen in the future, that i basically just said didn't exist...Things can only happen in the now, but can there be 'nows' in the future? Looking...the answer is, No. Now is always 'in' the now. Now is always now.
Or that thought is just another thought appearing, and only the content suggests that it’s about the future and not about something else?
Only the content suggest it's about a future.
And how do you know exactly that a particular thought is about the future? What is it that is providing this information?
I know thoughts are about the future because thoughts say they are about the future.

Sorry I did not post yesterday, can't lie, I did not make time to post. I could have, but i didn't. I believed something else was more important.

Nameless

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Vivien
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Re: Fear decreasing

Postby Vivien » Sat Aug 29, 2020 4:18 am

Hi Nameless,
Sorry I did not post yesterday, can't lie, I did not make time to post. I could have, but i didn't. I believed something else was more important.
Thank you for your honesty. Yes, these things happen that we judge something to be more important than this investigation. That’s ok.
V: Just notice if you are the thinker of these thoughts.
Notice, if you make these thoughts happen.
Notice, if you make a decision prior to think these thoughts. Or you are aware of then only when they are present, but not before?
N: If you define, thinking, as me making the thoughts appear and/or me choosing what thoughts to think, then, No, I am not the thinker of any thoughts.
How else could that be defined?

Are you sure that you can see clearly that you are not the thinker of these thoughts? That you are not making them happen?

I seem to be here as thoughts, sensations. And, something seems familiar, like behind the eyes...well, I guess maybe it's thoughts...and sensations; it just seems really familiar to me, but I have no shape or form.
Yes, there is a familiar sensation behind the eyes.
The question is there is an actual person, called ‘Namless’ sitting behind the eyes, as an autonomous independent entity with its own will and doership, who is pulling levels and managing what is going on.

Just stay with the feeling of ‘looking out from behind the eyes’. Just FEEL it.
Stay with this feeling, be with it like it's some new phenomenon for which you have no name.

What do you discover about the sensation, as a sensation only?


Drop any labels or names of this sensation, even the label of it being familiar. Just put them aside.

If you don’t give any name to this feeling, if you don’t label it at all, but just curiously stay with it, as if it were a totally new and unknown phenomenon you’ve just discovered, then what can you know about this feeling?

Is this feeling in itself has any other characteristics other than being a sensation?


Vivien
The most profound discoveries arise from questioning the obvious.

Website: https://www.viviennovak.com/

Blog: https://fadingveiling.com/

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Nameless1
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Re: Fear decreasing

Postby Nameless1 » Sat Aug 29, 2020 8:32 pm

Hi Vivien,

I forgot to tell you yesterday that i have my grandson today and tomorrow, so i will not have time to sit with all of the questions today. I will talk with you tomorrow evening/monday morning.

Nameless

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Vivien
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Location: Australia

Re: Fear decreasing

Postby Vivien » Sun Aug 30, 2020 12:14 am

All right, thank you for letting me know :)

have a nice weekend,
Vivien
The most profound discoveries arise from questioning the obvious.

Website: https://www.viviennovak.com/

Blog: https://fadingveiling.com/

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Nameless1
Posts: 149
Joined: Mon Jun 03, 2019 4:12 am

Re: Fear decreasing

Postby Nameless1 » Tue Sep 01, 2020 12:20 am

Hi Vivien,
How else could that be defined?
A flow of thoughts or thoughts arising and disappearing
Are you sure that you can see clearly that you are not the thinker of these thoughts? That you are not making them happen?
I can not say, with any certainty that I am not the thinker of these thoughts, nor can i say with any certainty that i am not making them happen.
What do you discover about the sensation, as a sensation only?
there is movement, pulsing, some pressure and pain between the eyes and above the eyes.
If you don’t give any name to this feeling, if you don’t label it at all, but just curiously stay with it, as if it were a totally new and unknown phenomenon you’ve just discovered, then what can you know about this feeling?
It's just there.
Is this feeling in itself has any other characteristics other than being a sensation?
No, there are no other characteristics other than it being a sensation.

Nameless

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Vivien
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Location: Australia

Re: Fear decreasing

Postby Vivien » Tue Sep 01, 2020 3:10 am

Hi Nameless,
V: Are you sure that you can see clearly that you are not the thinker of these thoughts? That you are not making them happen?
N: I can not say, with any certainty that I am not the thinker of these thoughts, nor can i say with any certainty that i am not making them happen.
OK, then please stay with this for a while.

Look until is utterly clear that you are not thinking or making any thought to happen. Look until there is no doubt whatsoever.
And when I say there is no doubt, I don’t just mean that there is no doubt when looking, but there is no doubt in your everyday life either.

Seeing this is essential.

Vivien
The most profound discoveries arise from questioning the obvious.

Website: https://www.viviennovak.com/

Blog: https://fadingveiling.com/

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Nameless1
Posts: 149
Joined: Mon Jun 03, 2019 4:12 am

Re: Fear decreasing

Postby Nameless1 » Tue Sep 01, 2020 1:12 pm

Hi Vivien,

I will look as you are suggesting. I can see that Nameless is not making the thoughts appear or that Nameless is not thinking when looking; unclear if something other than the witness is making them happen. And, yes, will try and look more in everyday life, not just when sitting and looking. I will get back with you.

Thank you

Nameless

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Vivien
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Location: Australia

Re: Fear decreasing

Postby Vivien » Wed Sep 02, 2020 12:04 am

All right. Have a nice day :)
The most profound discoveries arise from questioning the obvious.

Website: https://www.viviennovak.com/

Blog: https://fadingveiling.com/

User avatar
Nameless1
Posts: 149
Joined: Mon Jun 03, 2019 4:12 am

Re: Fear decreasing

Postby Nameless1 » Mon Sep 14, 2020 10:38 pm

Hi Vivien,

I have been looking to see if Nameless is the one thinking or making the thoughts happen; looking both while sitting and while in everyday life. The body had physical sensations that the mind labeled as fear today when it was seen clearly that the watcher of the thoughts, the feeler of the sensations has zero control over thoughts or sensations or anything. It was more confirmation that Nameless, nor the witness has any control over thoughts. Now, when sitting down to check in with you today and give an update...thinking was happening like what should i say first etc....so the question arose again: am I thinking. And, looking happened again, and it seems clear that I can witness the thoughts as they arise, but i can't see that i make them happen' however, for some reason, I still can't say 100% sure that ALL the time i don't think. Sometimes it seems like I MIGHT be thinking when I am actively searching for an answer, but upon looking all i can say is thoughts appear and i notice them as they arise.

I did not like going that long without talking with you, but I tried to make 100% sure before I wrote to you; I'm very close. But did want to check in with you.

I hope you are doing well.

Nameless

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Vivien
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Location: Australia

Re: Fear decreasing

Postby Vivien » Tue Sep 15, 2020 5:20 am

Hi Nameless,
The body had physical sensations that the mind labeled as fear today when it was seen clearly that the watcher of the thoughts, the feeler of the sensations has zero control over thoughts or sensations or anything.
But is there an actual watcher of thoughts? Is there actually something or someone watching thoughts?
And is there a FEELER of sensations? Or there are only sensations known without an actual person feeling them?
It was more confirmation that Nameless, nor the witness has any control over thoughts.
Is there any difference between Nameless and the witness?
Or just the word Nameless has been replaced by another word ‘witness’?
If you say that there is a difference, then what it is?
and it seems clear that I can witness the thoughts as they arise
OK. So you are saying that you are this witness what you are witnessing thoughts.

But where is this I, which witnesses?
Is there an actual person, a lasting, enduring entity who witnesses thoughts?
Or thoughts are just simply known, but without an actual witness?


Vivien
The most profound discoveries arise from questioning the obvious.

Website: https://www.viviennovak.com/

Blog: https://fadingveiling.com/

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Nameless1
Posts: 149
Joined: Mon Jun 03, 2019 4:12 am

Re: Fear decreasing

Postby Nameless1 » Wed Sep 16, 2020 1:44 pm

Hi Vivien,

Thank you for responding. I was waiting for an email saying you responded, but i forgot that I don't get any emails alerting me that you responded so I just read this now. I will sit with these questions for the next few days and then get back with answers.

In gratitude,

Nameless

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Vivien
Posts: 7037
Joined: Sat Jun 07, 2014 3:07 am
Location: Australia

Re: Fear decreasing

Postby Vivien » Wed Sep 16, 2020 11:50 pm

All right, thank you for letting me know.

Have a nice day,
Vivien
The most profound discoveries arise from questioning the obvious.

Website: https://www.viviennovak.com/

Blog: https://fadingveiling.com/


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