Fear decreasing

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Nameless1
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Re: Fear decreasing

Postby Nameless1 » Fri Sep 20, 2019 7:32 pm

Is there still some seeking?
Yes, seeking continues, but rarely for nameless. seeking continues to experience Truth. "nameless" 'sits down to look,' for what's really right here, right now. often it's seen, not always.
Have you find what you came for to LU?
In part, yes. I've been able to see things previously not seen, led to fears over and over and experienced a decrease in those fears. It's been seen there really is no separate self here.
Are you satisfied with the investigation?
"the investigation" is far from over. there are still sooooo many questions, but the question of nameless being real isn't believed; it feels like it a lot of the time, and looking for the Truth continues, the truth of the moment--what's actually happening right here, right now. Sometimes, like right this second, the question arose: What knows the truth? Now, it feels like there is a nameless here that thinks about that for a few seconds, remembers the truth and when it's possible, Looks. so perhaps there is still seeking?
Is there anything missing?
i don't believe that's possible; however, it feels like 'i'm' missing what's right here, right now, most often when engaged in some kind of activity or when with 'other people.' i feel like i'm missing some kind of knowledge and/or experience when it comes to thoughts, haven't a clue what it is though.

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Vivien
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Re: Fear decreasing

Postby Vivien » Sat Sep 21, 2019 2:52 am

Hi Nameless,
Yes, seeking continues, but rarely for nameless. seeking continues to experience Truth. "nameless" 'sits down to look,' for what's really right here, right now. often it's seen, not always.
So are you saying that it still feels like as if Nameless sits down to look for the truth?
As if Nameless would do the looking?
And striving for seeing the truth?
"the investigation" is far from over. there are still sooooo many questions, but the question of nameless being real isn't believed; it feels like it a lot of the time, and looking for the Truth continues, the truth of the moment--what's actually happening right here, right now. Sometimes, like right this second, the question arose: What knows the truth? Now, it feels like there is a nameless here that thinks about that for a few seconds, remembers the truth and when it's possible, Looks. so perhaps there is still seeking?
Why is it important to experience truth?

Can truth be experienced? By whom? And how can truth be experienced?

Is there such thing as ‘experience of truth’?
however, it feels like 'i'm' missing what's right here, right now, most often when engaged in some kind of activity or when with 'other people.' i feel like i'm missing some kind of knowledge and/or experience when it comes to thoughts, haven't a clue what it is though.
Is seeing no self is an experience? A different experience perhaps than what normally/usually is happening?

Are you after a state? What are you after exactly?

Why how things are (whatever or however they are) is not good enough?


Vivien
The most profound discoveries arise from questioning the obvious.

Website: https://www.viviennovak.com/

Blog: https://fadingveiling.com/

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Nameless1
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Re: Fear decreasing

Postby Nameless1 » Sun Sep 22, 2019 1:07 am

So are you saying that it still feels like as if Nameless sits down to look for the truth?
As if Nameless would do the looking?
And striving for seeing the truth?
Yes, yes, and yes
Why is it important to experience truth?
appears to be much less suffering, and generally speaking, i prefer to know what i'm dealing with, what's 'real'
Can truth be experienced? By whom? And how can truth be experienced?
It's all the same thing: knower of truth, truth, and knowing of it---all same thing, one thing. experience, experiencer, and thing experienced--one thing
Is there such thing as ‘experience of truth’?
no, that implies two things
Is seeing no self is an experience? No, it's a thought
A different experience perhaps than what normally/usually is happening?
seeing/experiencing through the lens of duality, being lost in thoughts increases or creates suffering.
Are you after a state? What are you after exactly?
experience for me is the 'further away' i am from being lost in thought, the less suffering is experienced. i want peace. who/what wants peace? so, looking at that question right now, seeing that those are just thoughts, brought peace, of which i've not had a lot of in the past two weeks. i want peace, but i think i am peace...looking...i am peace. i am everything that arises, and somehow none of it at the same time.
Why how things are (whatever or however they are) is not good enough?
fear sucks. now, i've seen there really is no such thing as fear. there are sensations, and thoughts label them as fear and tell stories about the fear---when they're believed, there is suffering, when the thoughts and sensations are just witnessed there is just pain--which i find tolerable, and when the witness itself 'disappears' there appears to be zero pain and suffering.

i feel like i have pieces to a puzzle, but i can't put it together. the other 'shoe' or penny hasn't dropped yet, and 'i' think that's where the sense that something is missing comes from. i NEED to find a way to remember to look and just label things color, sound, etc all throughout the day. at this point, i'm not very good at it

Thanks for the questions; they helped move my mood up a couple notches

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Vivien
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Re: Fear decreasing

Postby Vivien » Sun Sep 22, 2019 1:26 am

Hi Nameless,
V: Why is it important to experience truth?
N: appears to be much less suffering, and generally speaking, i prefer to know what i'm dealing with, what's 'real'
So your desire to experience truth is based on the belief that there is a I/Nameless that is suffering, and she wants to experience truth in order to get rid of suffering.
V: Is there such thing as ‘experience of truth’?
N: no, that implies two things
It’s not just about two-ness, but whether is there such thing as ‘truth’?
Or truth is just a concept that a seeming separate entity (Nameless) is clinging to? In the hope of getting rid of her suffering?
experience for me is the 'further away' i am from being lost in thought, the less suffering is experienced. i want peace.
All right. So it is still believed that there is a me/Nameless who suffers.
That the suffering is happening to ME/Nameless.
And this entity (Nameless) wants to get rid of this suffering, she wants peace.
i want peace, but i think i am peace...looking...i am peace. i am everything that arises, and somehow none of it at the same time.
So now, Nameless somehow got equated to peace.
I/Nameless = peace … But is this so? Is there an I that could become peace, or be peace?
i feel like i have pieces to a puzzle, but i can't put it together. the other 'shoe' or penny hasn't dropped yet, and 'i' think that's where the sense that something is missing comes from. i NEED to find a way to remember to look and just label things color, sound, etc all throughout the day. at this point, i'm not very good at it
It's not about labelling things as color, sound, etc. It’s not about Nameless getting into a different state with different thoughts of just labelling things, instead of having the thoughts that seemingly create suffering.

It’s about questioning if these thoughts and sensations (of suffering) are ACTUALLY belonging to a self/I/Nameless.

Labelling things as color, sound is useless. Since it’s done to avoid suffering. The labelling is done by Nameless.

The point is not to have a better, or more pleasant experience to Nameless.
The point is to see it again and again, that experience, or peace, or suffering doesn’t belong to Nameless or anything at all. So the seeming suffering can come and go freely, since it doesn’t belong to anything.

Emotions are just free-floating without being anchored to anything or anyone.
This is what you have to look at again and again.

Every time a desire to peace comes up investigate:
What is it that wants this experience be different?

When suffering appears:
What is it that suffers?
What does suffering belong to? To whom?

Who experiences suffering?
Who wants peace instead?

Vivien
The most profound discoveries arise from questioning the obvious.

Website: https://www.viviennovak.com/

Blog: https://fadingveiling.com/

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Nameless1
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Re: Fear decreasing

Postby Nameless1 » Mon Sep 23, 2019 12:44 am

Hi Vivien,

Yes, truth is a concept, almost typed it last night because "i" know it's the 'truth.'
Labelling things as color, sound is useless. Since it’s done to avoid suffering.
Yes, see that. Noted!
The point is not to have a better, or more pleasant experience to Nameless.
The point is to see it again and again, that experience, or peace, or suffering doesn’t belong to Nameless or anything at all. So the seeming suffering can come and go freely, since it doesn’t belong to anything.
Hopefully these points will become clear very shortly. And, yes, the "SEEMING" suffering.

You've asked some great questions below, as usual, and there's intention here to continue looking in this way. I don't know if 'i'm' trying too hard, or what, but thoughts have arisen over the past several weeks of going back to the beginning, taking as much time as felt is needed and re-doing the exercises....with a 'lighter' approach. Relaxing more. Maybe even have some fun with it. I don't know if my situation at work, which has been a living hell, and which i quit last wednesday, but actually still have b/c of the groveling and promising to change---which is, i think a good thing, b/c i haven't another one to go to, could be adding to my decision to stop posting nightly or not, but either way, i really feel like going back and taking my time, not having to post nightly is what i need right now. i feel very 'inward' right now and don't have much desire to talk to anyone, about anything.

Would it be ok to take some time...maybe up to a month, and get back with you then?

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Vivien
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Re: Fear decreasing

Postby Vivien » Mon Sep 23, 2019 4:19 am

Hi Nameless,

Of course, no problem. When you feel ready, just post on this thread, so we can continue.

Have a nice day,
Vivien
The most profound discoveries arise from questioning the obvious.

Website: https://www.viviennovak.com/

Blog: https://fadingveiling.com/

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Nameless1
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Re: Fear decreasing

Postby Nameless1 » Mon Sep 23, 2019 12:15 pm

Thanks, Vivien.

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Nameless1
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Re: Fear decreasing

Postby Nameless1 » Tue Oct 22, 2019 6:48 pm

HI Vivien,

Thank you for the time and effort you put into helping this little thought; it's super appreciated! At this point, seeking, and the inevitable sorrows that follow continue; it's not all sorrow though--- thankfully. I'm doing the only things I can do---it's seen fairly clearly most of the time that nameless isn't running the show here, so i'll continue watching, but it's clear that right now i need to let go of LU. You've helped me see things not seen before, and again, I'm really grateful for that. I wish you only the best, Vivien! (hug)

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Vivien
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Re: Fear decreasing

Postby Vivien » Tue Oct 22, 2019 11:57 pm

Hi Nameless,

All right, thank you for your honesty and coming back to me. :)

All the best,
Vivien
The most profound discoveries arise from questioning the obvious.

Website: https://www.viviennovak.com/

Blog: https://fadingveiling.com/

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Nameless1
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Re: Fear decreasing

Postby Nameless1 » Fri Aug 07, 2020 2:18 am

Doesn't seem like almost a year since we 'spoke!' Things have certainly changed since then....scary times we are living in, to me. It's been a couple of weeks since I've done any kind of spiritual practice and that is not like me at all--don't think I've missed more than 2 or 3 days in years , but I am ready to get back to some type of practice. I will not be going back to the chanting or manusa puja--which took an hour and a half each morning and then almost an hour in the evening.

I would like to start working with you again, Vivien; I had real progress when I was working with you--real non dual experiences. I hope you will be able to fit me in with all of your other students. I will be happy with whatever time you may be able to give me.

I hope you are doing well, safe, content, and healthy.

Nameless

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Vivien
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Re: Fear decreasing

Postby Vivien » Fri Aug 07, 2020 4:27 am

Hi Nameless,

Nice to have you back :) I’m glad that you’ve found our previous conversations helpful.
I will not be going back to the chanting or manusa puja--which took an hour and a half each morning and then almost an hour in the evening.
Actually, I’m glad to hear that. Since it means that you will have more time on focusing looking.

Remember, what we are doing here is to see the difference between thinking (imagination) and reality (experience).

Let’s start with thoughts.

What do you do exactly in order to think?
How do you make (or birth) thoughts into existence?


Please be careful not to think about these questions, but actually sit and NOTICE how you think, how you do it exactly. So don’t go to theories, speculations, philosophy, or any learned information. Just notice what is happening here now in the immediacy of your own experience.

Please spend a whole day investigating these questions. Look again and again and again. Even if the answer seems to be clear, look more.

This investigation is about persistent repetition. Looking at the same thing again and again in experience, what brings about the realization.

Vivien
The most profound discoveries arise from questioning the obvious.

Website: https://www.viviennovak.com/

Blog: https://fadingveiling.com/

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Nameless1
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Re: Fear decreasing

Postby Nameless1 » Sun Aug 09, 2020 12:52 am

What do you do exactly in order to think?/quote] It doesn't seem like I do anything at all, except for notice the thoughts that arise. I did an experiment where i asked myself a question so as to make myself think, and all i could do was wait and watch for whatever thoughts arose...like looking for something and then a thought or thoughts would just start appearing. Also, once, something witnessed the witness of the the thought and the thought arising at the same time; last about a second then 'it' was gone. And, yesterday i was sitting outside attempting to just look with no thinking and it happened for less than a minute, then the thought arose: I like thinking, not thinking is boring. And, I believed that thought at that moment. :(
How do you make (or birth) thoughts into existence?/quote] I could not find that i make or birth any thoughts into existence; they just appear and disappear---where they come from and where they go is a total mystery to me

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Vivien
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Re: Fear decreasing

Postby Vivien » Sun Aug 09, 2020 2:00 am

Hi Nameless,
And, yesterday i was sitting outside attempting to just look with no thinking and it happened for less than a minute, then the thought arose: I like thinking, not thinking is boring. And, I believed that thought at that moment. :(
There might be a misunderstanding here. We are not aiming to not have any thoughts, not even to lessen them. We are not trying to stop the stream of thoughts. It’s not about getting into a special (non-ordinary) state where are less or no thoughts at all.

And the me-character would want to have less or no thoughts, in the hope that without thought I might have more peace.

The presence or absence of thoughts have nothing to do with seeing that there is no separate self.
It’s rather about seeing that none of the thoughts are done by a me, or referring to an actual me.

Try an experiment.

Try to create a thought. Any thought, from scratch. What do you find?

Do you notice how thoughts seem to appear, hang around for a while and somehow pass, and then the next thought come?
What is making thoughts to appear?

Now try preventing a thought from appearing. Is it possible?

Vivien
The most profound discoveries arise from questioning the obvious.

Website: https://www.viviennovak.com/

Blog: https://fadingveiling.com/

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Nameless1
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Re: Fear decreasing

Postby Nameless1 » Mon Aug 10, 2020 1:23 am

Hi Vivien,
Try to create a thought. Any thought, from scratch. What do you find? I find that I can not create one from scratch. What happens is there is some sort of sensory perception and then a thought will appear that comments on that, or a random memory will just arise on its' own. Also, I notice thoughts slow down when I try to create one. I also found that at times I would be looking for the one that was supposed to be creating a thought.

Do you notice how thoughts seem to appear, hang around for a while and somehow pass, and then the next thought come?
What is making thoughts to appear? Yes, thoughts just appear and disappear on their own. I am not the one making them appear or disappear. I have no clue what makes them appear. Thoughts say conditioning makes them happen, or memory makes them appear, or sensory perceptions trigger them, but all of those are just thoughts. So, my final answer is: I have no clue what makes thoughts happen

Now try preventing a thought from appearing. Is it possible? It is not possible to stop any thoughts from appearing.
Nameless

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Vivien
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Re: Fear decreasing

Postby Vivien » Mon Aug 10, 2020 2:48 am

Hi Nameless,

I would like to ask you to check your post before posting it, so it would be easier to read it later for both of us. You can check it by pressing the ‘Preview’ button next to the submit button, so you can make changes if necessary.

It’s better if you quote the questions separately, so it would be easier to read.

And by the way, you did a nice investigation.

Look, is the me-character the creator or the created?
Is there a narrator of the story of me?
Is the character in the story creating what happens in the story or the story about the character creates itself, one thought at a time?
Is the me character thinking?
Or are thoughts coming up by themselves?
Can a thought think?


Vivien
The most profound discoveries arise from questioning the obvious.

Website: https://www.viviennovak.com/

Blog: https://fadingveiling.com/


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