Fear decreasing

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Vivien
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Re: Fear decreasing

Postby Vivien » Thu Nov 26, 2020 4:57 am

Hi Nameless,
After an hour sitting here: There are different experiences happening--going back and forth. At times, there does not appear to be an observer, just a knowing of taste, sound, sensation; then other times, it seems...but that does not mean this is true, it seems that there is a separate identity observing these things, but i can not find this entity.
We are not simply trying to prove that there is no self, we already know that a self/I is part of thoughts story.
We are looking at the SEEMS TO BE and have a look if that's true, we do look how the story is created and maintained and why it is so credible.

Let’s go back noticing the nature of thoughts.

1. Take a piece of paper and divide it in two parts.
- In one part you mark each thought which content points to the intake of senses,
- on the other part you make a mark for all thoughts which don't point to anything in DE, like into the so called future/daydreams/plans or past/memory.

Take half an hour time for it or longer and have a look how the percentage is.

2. Play around and notice thoughts during the day, and label them according to which category they belong to.

Share what you find.

Vivien
The most profound discoveries arise from questioning the obvious.

Website: https://www.viviennovak.com/

Blog: https://fadingveiling.com/

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Nameless1
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Re: Fear decreasing

Postby Nameless1 » Fri Nov 27, 2020 1:31 am

Hi Vivien,

I did as you instructed, here are the results:

Well, I thought i would sit and look at thoughts for a few minutes to see if the experience would be different than it was this morning. A memory appeared and the thought after that was: I've wasted so much time in life. Immediately after that another thought appeared: That's a lie, that's just a thought. Then another thought appeared: Well, that's just another thought. Hey, I'm seeing them as thoughts, this is cool. Then noticing of thoughts stopped and I got lost in whether to whether to write this or not. I think what struck me about this is that i noticed a self disparaging thought as a thought immediately (which almost never happens) and the thought after that was: i recognized this b/c of the exercise of the day.

Ok, so this morning with the paper exercise: it was surprisingly close with future, memories, etc having only slightly more 'tics' on that side of the paper. I think it was because i was having a lot of physical sensations, unpleasant ones. I spent most of the day reading and answering questions for CEU's for my license so there was not much time spent in anything but being focused on that. I did notice; however, that when I took very small breaks, thoughts talked about future, memories, etc, not so much DE. :( But i did notice it, too, so that's something i suppose.

The story seems to be created and maintained by believing thoughts, not questioning them, but i can not make myself remember to look

I have spent some time over the past week or two trying to figure out what or how it happens that I 'seem to get lost.' I don't understand what happen other than where 'my' attention goes, but i have no control over where attention goes...seemingly.

Nameless

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Vivien
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Re: Fear decreasing

Postby Vivien » Fri Nov 27, 2020 6:34 am

Hi Nameless,

I would like to ask you to stay with the same exercise for another day, and this time please give me a list of thoughts from both categories.

Vivien
The most profound discoveries arise from questioning the obvious.

Website: https://www.viviennovak.com/

Blog: https://fadingveiling.com/

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Nameless1
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Re: Fear decreasing

Postby Nameless1 » Sat Nov 28, 2020 1:00 am

Hi Vivien,

Two lists: DE and Not DE. I only wrote out things for the first 15 minutes as my hands were really hurting from writing; I did continue to make 'tics' on the paper under each heading. So, under DE: Cold hands, internal sounds---that sound that never goes away that i will put here as 'is,' car door, sound of engine, is, fading sound, deep breath, itch, another itch, cold hands and toes, soft blanket, my back against the pillow, is, car driving by, is, yellow house, brick house with blue shutters, breathing, cold hands, car, soft skin, car, hand hurts, itch, cold toes, is....... Under Not DE: wonder what my son thinks, don't want to ge pen mark on my blanket, they're leaving wonder when they're going back to FL, i feel invisible, wonder why there's a decrease in comments on fb, no one likes, this always happens, wonder what Vivien will think of my list, embarrassed to post these thoughts, wonder where we'll ride our bikes tomorrow, she wasted my time last week, really pissed at what happened at the store yesterday, will i run out of food, will the power go out for everyone at the same time, people don't know or believe about NWO, i want to ride now, why haven't i heard from brandi, i need to decrease my time on fb even more, what will i do on Christmas day, i don't understand my neighbor, i wish it would just happen already, where will i be next june, work load decreased a lot last 2 weeks, the dogs next door--i really love them......

Today i feel i did terrible remembering to look at whether thoughts were DE or not DE. I remembered a few times, and when i did, it was always NOT DE. There were a couple of times when remembering to look happened and that prompted me to look at DE, but overall, I suck at remembering to look! How the story is created is by not looking, in addition to believing thoughts?

Nameless

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Vivien
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Re: Fear decreasing

Postby Vivien » Sat Nov 28, 2020 4:36 am

Hi Nameless,

Thank you for doing it again and giving examples. So you can see quite well which thoughts point to DE and which ones just to more thoughts. But you have to notice them, since this is the basic skill to differentiate between reality and fiction. And why is that important? Because we suffer when we don’t see fiction for fiction :)
Today i feel i did terrible remembering to look at whether thoughts were DE or not DE. I remembered a few times, and when i did, it was always NOT DE.
Yes. Less than 1% of our thoughts points to actual, real things.

I would like to ask you to stay with this exercise at least for 3 days, but maybe even for a week, and do everything you can to look. If need to, put reminders to different places where you often look, and as soon as you spot a reminder, look.
Also, you can set a reminder on your laptop, and your phone too.

Stay with this for a while, seeing this is important… this is the first step out of the suffering of our dream-world :)

Vivien
The most profound discoveries arise from questioning the obvious.

Website: https://www.viviennovak.com/

Blog: https://fadingveiling.com/

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Nameless1
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Re: Fear decreasing

Postby Nameless1 » Sat Nov 28, 2020 2:12 pm

Hi Vivien,

Thank you for your reply. I will stay with this for a week, post reminders, set reminders on my phone and get back with you in about a week.

Nameless

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Vivien
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Re: Fear decreasing

Postby Vivien » Sat Nov 28, 2020 11:40 pm

All right :)
The most profound discoveries arise from questioning the obvious.

Website: https://www.viviennovak.com/

Blog: https://fadingveiling.com/

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Nameless1
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Re: Fear decreasing

Postby Nameless1 » Sat Dec 05, 2020 4:55 pm

Hi Vivien,

I set reminders on my phone, they didn't always go off for some reason...? I set post it notes. What I found is that I did remember on my own more often to look at DE, and when I saw a post it or alarm went off, I stayed with DE only for seconds, same with at night when paying attention to bodily sensations...not sure why, but the ability to stay focused is not what it used to be...perhaps b/c i had stopped sitting daily for hours at a time. I know i will keep at it, b/c others say the same, that we need to look at what IS right here, right now.

Nameless

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Vivien
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Re: Fear decreasing

Postby Vivien » Sun Dec 06, 2020 1:53 am

Hi Nameless,

Yes, looking and seeing always happen here now.

Here's another exercise which could help with seeing the difference between thought and experience. Please do it as many times throughout the day as you can.

Label daily activities simply colour/image, sound, smell, taste, sensation, thought.

So for example, when having breakfast, become aware of:

Seeing a cup, simply= image/colour
Smelling coffee, simply = smell
Feeling the warmth of the coffee cup simply = sensation
Tasting the coffee simply = taste
Hearing the spoon stirring the coffee simply = sound
Thought about drinking the coffee, simply = thought

Just break down daily activities into these categories (which are all actual/direct experience) and report back how you go.
Also, please sit for about 15 minutes, and just label everything as shown above. Please make the labelling in a written format, and then share it with me and we can have a look together.

Vivien
The most profound discoveries arise from questioning the obvious.

Website: https://www.viviennovak.com/

Blog: https://fadingveiling.com/

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Nameless1
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Re: Fear decreasing

Postby Nameless1 » Mon Dec 07, 2020 1:01 am

Hi Vivien,
Just break down daily activities into these categories (which are all actual/direct experience) and report back how you go. Also, please sit for about 15 minutes, and just label everything as shown above. Please make the labelling in a written format, and then share it with me and we can have a look together.
I will use, "t" for thought, "s" for sensation to avoid pain of typing :) for the 15 minutes of sitting.

s, t, t, t, s, sound, t, t, s, t, t, s, s, t, s, s, tot, t, s, image, color, image, t, s, image, t, t, s, s, t, t, s, t, t, t, t, ,t s, s, t, s, t, s, sound, sound, s, s, s, s t, t, color, color, sound, sound, image, color, s, t, s, s, s, t, s, s, t, sound, s, sound, s, t, s, s, s, s, sound, sound, s, t, t, s, s, t, s, sound, s, t, t, s, t, sound, s, sound, t, sound, t, s, s, sound, t, sound, s, t, s, smell, t, sound, smell, sound, sound, s, t, sound, s, sound, smell, sound

As I went about my day, i noticed that i was better than past weeks at noticing what was actually happening in the moment, but had to stop and remind myself to label it in the way you asked. Labeling did not happen as often as just noticing, for example, sounds; meaning, I noticed sounds, but would forget to label it as, sound.

I did notice a thought earlier today that said, "Living this way---meaning just paying attention to what IS/DE is boring."

Nameless

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Vivien
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Re: Fear decreasing

Postby Vivien » Mon Dec 07, 2020 3:42 am

Hi Nameless,
As I went about my day, i noticed that i was better than past weeks at noticing what was actually happening in the moment, but had to stop and remind myself to label it in the way you asked. Labeling did not happen as often as just noticing, for example, sounds; meaning, I noticed sounds, but would forget to label it as, sound.
Nice. Can you stay with this for a few more days? Just to let this really sink in.
I did notice a thought earlier today that said, "Living this way---meaning just paying attention to what IS/DE is boring."
Yes. :) for the intellect, experience seems to be quite boring :) and why? Since thoughts cannot go there, right? Thoughts are just another thing to notice in experience.

Have you heard about Byron Katie’s Work, how to investigate beliefs? You might find real benefit with that.

Vivien
The most profound discoveries arise from questioning the obvious.

Website: https://www.viviennovak.com/

Blog: https://fadingveiling.com/

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Nameless1
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Re: Fear decreasing

Postby Nameless1 » Mon Dec 07, 2020 6:40 pm

Vivien,

I will stay with this. I have heard of Byron K and looked into her stuff a while ago..no pull there..will look again to see if something resonates. Thank you.

Nameless

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Vivien
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Re: Fear decreasing

Postby Vivien » Tue Dec 08, 2020 2:07 am

Hi Nameless,

If you look up Byron Katie again, and you don't feel a pull... then you can look if there is a resistance of looking at your beliefs.

Since what she does is to help identify those thoughts / beliefs that makes us suffer. The cause of suffering is never in the outside world or in the other, it's always inside, as a thought, what I project to others/world.

Vivien
The most profound discoveries arise from questioning the obvious.

Website: https://www.viviennovak.com/

Blog: https://fadingveiling.com/

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Nameless1
Posts: 155
Joined: Mon Jun 03, 2019 4:12 am

Re: Fear decreasing

Postby Nameless1 » Tue Dec 08, 2020 5:06 pm

Ok, Vivien, thank you for pointing that out.

Nameless

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Nameless1
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Re: Fear decreasing

Postby Nameless1 » Mon Dec 14, 2020 3:34 pm

Hi Vivien,

Have been staying with labeling DE...about the same, still using alerts on phone.

Have been doing Katie's work: bring up upsetting situation. write down thoughts in short sentences about it. question a thought/belief or two-writing it down, and turning it around. It has been very helpful to actually write it down..which i don't like writing b/c it hurts my hand..and now even typing hurts, but it is worth it. i have gotten some relief and also being reminded of how much the mind IS the cause of suffering..or the believing it.

Nameless


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