The Pendulum

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Andreas18
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Re: The Pendulum

Postby Andreas18 » Tue Jul 23, 2019 7:48 pm

I want to get out of the forest of temptation. Free from this sick world.

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Ilona
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Re: The Pendulum

Postby Ilona » Wed Jul 24, 2019 1:38 pm

Thank you for sharing so honestly.
I hear you, it is not easy. Being on medicines can be helpful for a time, but coming off them is some real challenge.

You seem to hold a lot of concepts about enlightenment and that’s surely is one thing in the way of seeing clearly. What if you let them all go? All of it! Or just put it on hold, you can come back to them later, but for now, take a look with fresh eyes.

What is here that can achieve enlightenment? An image? A thought? Is there an entity? Are you the entity, that is in control of the destiny?

Do you notice a difference between what is real and what is imaginary?
What in your own words is real?


I can not advise you to continue medicines or not, this is not my place. You know what to do. Do what feels right. Seek help from closest people if you can.

Love.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

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Andreas18
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Re: The Pendulum

Postby Andreas18 » Thu Jul 25, 2019 7:27 pm

Amidst the silence, I hear birds singing. I hear myself.
Against the backdrop of emptiness, all else arises and falls away.

There is no self to be found. Yet there is nothing that is not myself.

In the end there isn't really much to say. This is it.

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Andreas18
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Re: The Pendulum

Postby Andreas18 » Thu Jul 25, 2019 7:55 pm

Thanks Ilona, I'm sort of at a loss for words.

About this real versus imaginary thing though. There is the real, the world, and illusion. I see that now.
A dream within a dream as Edgar Allan Poe so eloquently wrote.

I actually have a big problem with confusion about mystical experiences that I would like to address.

When I was 21 I ended up in a massive psychosis. Ever since I've had a lot of profoundly mystical experiences, such as visions and hearing voices. Sometimes these voices are profoundly helpful, sometimes they are like demons.
I was born into a christian family, and for some reason the spirit of Christianity and the word god really resonates with me. As does Brahman. Even Allah.

One of the reasons I got really into this was because I was in a psychosis, and my question was, what is reality? What is actually real?

It's a bit tricky when you start getting the idea of spiritual powers mixed into that confusion, which can really set one off on quite the trip. And so I sense there is this volatile mix of reality and illusion.

I can't think of anything to do other than meditate really. Everything else seems to be such a waste of time, superficial things that really don't hold much value. It's so unsatisfying in comparison. Maybe I just need to sit in silence more.

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Andreas18
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Re: The Pendulum

Postby Andreas18 » Sat Jul 27, 2019 11:10 am

Actually, the entire reason I got into spirituality in the first place was because Bhante Gunaratana wrote in his book, "Mindfulness in Plain English", that when one becomes fully enlightened, they become completely mentally healthy.

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Andreas18
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Re: The Pendulum

Postby Andreas18 » Sat Jul 27, 2019 4:10 pm

If I can be honest. I'm starting to feel like a bother. You're spending so much time reading and answering my messages, and it's like I don't even get it. I wake up and then I just digress. I feel as if I am wasting your time.

I feel I should ask better and more relevant questions.

And so, may I ask, on a completely unrelated topic, is there anything I can do about heartbreak and loneliness?

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Andreas18
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Re: The Pendulum

Postby Andreas18 » Mon Jul 29, 2019 7:39 pm

So wait, there is no me that can sustain enlightenment.

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Ilona
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Re: The Pendulum

Postby Ilona » Tue Jul 30, 2019 9:14 pm

Dear Andreas,
Thank you for your comments. Sorry, I am not available to reply as often as I am in the middle of moving country and this week I am traveling. I will reply when I can. Please keep writing.

Ha, your last messge! There is no me to sustain, to abide, to achieve, to reach, to benefit. How does that feel?

About heartbreak. The heart wants to love. Any condition, rule or restriction hurts. Sometimes opening heart is painful. All those feelings want to have space and time to be felt fully. Be kind and gentle to yourself. Give those feelings attention. And also look, is there a feeler? Are you the owner of the heart? Are you in command of what feelings show up?


Thank you for sharing about your mystical experience. Sounds that this was a turning point, that set you on a journey of self discovery. Your path is unique and all that happens is incomparable with someone else’s experience. This life is mystery unfolding. And could anything happened differently?

Much love.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

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Andreas18
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Re: The Pendulum

Postby Andreas18 » Thu Aug 01, 2019 10:27 am

It's actually at first sort of unnerving, and now immensely disappointing. It was not at all what I thought is was.

This whole time I was convinced I would be fully healed, and I would permanently abide in some sort of state of consciousness. Or that consciousness would simply always be aware of itself. And that I would be overflowing with love all the time.

As some have said, the world is brahman, or consciousness, or whatever. Everything is the self. There is no self.
I am aware that I am aware.

I feel I should practice mindfulness though. And meditate.


Thank you for what you said about heartbreak. I see there is no one who owns the heart. It's belongs to itself. Reality belongs to itself.

I am not in control of what feelings show up, nor do I have control over them. And the actions that follow don't end up well because of them. The negative ones that is. I have a tendency to self destruct.

Thank you again for your guidance

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Andreas18
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Re: The Pendulum

Postby Andreas18 » Sat Aug 03, 2019 7:39 pm

The last one really sort of, I don't know. I guess what I've been chasing is the benefit?

The mind is saying, "but what do I chase now? It's all over for me"

I'm sort of depressed...

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Ilona
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Re: The Pendulum

Postby Ilona » Mon Aug 05, 2019 7:44 am

I agree it can be disappointing as this seeing is not a magic pill to fix life. It’s seeing things as they are. Depressed feelings, happy feelings, all these feelings are free to come and go. No feeling is permanent.

So disappointement is another feeling that comes up. It’s ok to feel what you feel. Letting go of illusions can be painful. Letting go of hope is not pleasant. But hope is something that is in the way of seeing things as they are, it says, tomorrow things will be better. Which means here now is not accepted, it’s not enough.

Can you allow the idea in, that here now is enough? That these feeling that are present want to be felt? That it’s ok to feel them as they are?

How does that land?

Love
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

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Andreas18
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Re: The Pendulum

Postby Andreas18 » Wed Aug 07, 2019 3:31 pm

I just don't understand, I'm so overwhelmed by life right now I literally just tried to kill myself about 30 minutes ago. I'm sitting here writing with a huge gash in my arm...

I was in this because of what the Buddha taught, the end of suffering, but I'm suffering so much every day, all I think about and want to do is become a monk, but I'm in perpetual debt and my mind is so screwed up I can't ever imagine such a thing happening. I try to meditate but I can't keep it up and I slouch back into bed and become depressed again. I can't even finish a book about Buddhism, or any book for that matter. I'm so sick I'm now going to be getting money from the government the rest of my life, I have no way back into society, I'm just sitting here alone, in this godawful apartment with insane neighbors yelling at each other day in, day out. I can't stop doing drugs, I can't stop day dreaming. And then there's all these unexplainable symptoms that no one can heal. Not to mention I'm dirt poor, I have practically no friends, and my family hates me and see me as a massive burden. I'm a completely broken man, I have nothing to live for anymore. This was everything to me, my entire life has revolved around this. It was the only thing I had left.

I know that this moment is all I have, but nothing is changing, it's the same Samsara every single day. Even when I try to change I fail and I just end up in the same patterns over and over again. I mean, it's become so bad I was literally sawing into my wrist with a razor just a short while ago. You're telling me I have to give up hope? I don't mean to make you feel guilty or bad or anything, that's not my intention. It's not your fault I tried to kill myself. I'm trying to understand what you mean, I can see that hope does in fact just get in the way of seeing things as they are. But I don't know how to stop, my mind won't stop, it seems impossible to simply just accept things as they are and be fine with that. I don't understand how I could possibly give up hope, it doesn't even seem to be within my power to stop hoping. I'm honestly just so completely pathetic and hopeless, how can I possibly give up hope? When things are this bad, what do I do? I honestly don't understand anything anymore, I really don't know what to do. I'm completely lost

I get it, but my mind doesn't get it. It won't stop hoping. At this point I pray every night when I go to bed thinking, "God, please kill me tonight, I can't go on like this anymore, please, allow to me sleep and never to wake up again." I don't understand how I can possibly give up hope for the end of my suffering. I thought that was what all this enlightenment crap was all about. The end of suffering. Peace. Happiness. You know?

I have no clue what's happening anymore. When the Buddha said, when asked what he had attained, he answered, "I have attained absolutely nothing." That phrase used to give me goosebumps and I would be absolutely delighted whenever I heard it. But losing everything like this, is really not as pretty or pleasant as people make it out to be. People don't tell you how horrific it can be. Giving up hope... How do I do that when I'm in hell? I know I have to let go, but the suffering just won't stop. I'm completely broken, I don't know what to do anymore

I seriously don't understand anything anymore

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Ilona
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Re: The Pendulum

Postby Ilona » Mon Aug 19, 2019 6:47 am

(For the readers, we talked over messenger for a while and now we are coming back to the thread)

Good morning.
How is it going?
We talked about felling happy and feeling that it’s not ok to feel happy.
I asked about any early memory. Can you look into it and find where and when this feeling showed up the first time?

Let’s get it undone.

Love.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com/book

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Andreas18
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Re: The Pendulum

Postby Andreas18 » Fri Aug 23, 2019 11:10 am

Honestly, it's probably because of what the drugs did to me the past 10 years. I destroyed myself using drugs, and for a long time I remember feeling a lot of shame and guilt for what I was doing. I mean, overwhelmingly intense shame and guilt which in turn became an intense feeling of self hatred. I stole money from my family, almost died on multiple occasions and am now pretty much dysfunctional. I spend most of my money on drugs, I'm living off Norwegian well fair and am too sick to get into work, so I'm poor as hell. And because of this I have to ask my parents for money constantly, and borrow money from my friends on a regular basis. I'm totally addicted to drugs, and many times I feel it is the fault of society for allowing this to happen, sometimes I blame my parents, or sometimes, I'll feel as if this is all just karmic consequence. Sometimes I wonder if I'm being punished by god. If so, I would think it's quite excessive at this point.

Basically, I feel what I'm doing is wrong, and it's negatively affecting the people around me. I'm poor, but if I could quit the drugs, I would have enough money for food at least. No amount of, "the world is illusion", or "there is no self", is going to solve the problem of drug addiction. I'm an ordinary human being, and life has it's challenges, it is challenging, and my mind has been so obsessed with all this no self or consciousness stuff, that a vast majority of rest of my life has been living in darkness. In other words I focused exclusively on spirituality whilst ignoring the real life aspects of reality. Completely putting all my faith and attention and value into this idea of enlightenment, whilst being completely ignoring real life, and being incapable of taking care of myself properly. I've been bedridden for close to 5 years.

I've come to the realization, I am what I am, I am where I am. Nothing will change that. I'm never going to become that image in my mind. Whatever it may be. I've given up on becoming someone.

But, there may not be any self. The world, myself, possibly even consciousness itself is all illusory. But still, I can't simply believe that zero action in order to either take care this life form, or action in order to improve ones circumstances or the circumstances of others even, is simply fine. There has to be a real down to earth aspect to this, that lives and moves in the world, otherwise there isn't really any point. It may be a nice vacation, but if what is realized isn't lived, well in my case the results are mostly catastrophic.

The drugs are a serious problem for me, and it's doing a lot of damage. Both economically, and mentally. I use it to cope with mental illness, yet it also makes certain symptoms worse at times. It's sort of like being wasted from morning to night, months and years on end. I don't care what people say, too much of a certain substance is not good for your health. Cannabis is not free from short term and long term side effects. There can be serious consequences to your mental health. It's a relatively good drug, but when one is addicted to it to the point one is basically high all day every day, and for the life of him cannot get off it, it's a problem. I mean this is a serious issue in my life, as is the issue of global mass addiction to all sorts of drugs, all around the world. One can't just look at complete and total poverty or serious illness and still then be all like, everything is fine, there are no problems, the world is illusory. Life is fucking real, and I don't mean to attack you in any way, but I am so fucking fed up with this disassociation from the world that is so often taught in spirituality.

Life demands that one takes action. I will undoubtedly be challenged time and time again. Because life is challenging. And so I don't really care anymore about this no self thing, I've realized it a hundred times, it's very nice, but like I said, I've been bedridden for 5 years now, and life has a real down to earth aspect, and if i can't live a realized life, then like Adyashanti once said, you are living a split life. It's not like, oh I finally got my awakening, guess I can go back to smoking hash, wasting time, asking for money, just like before, and now I have this wonderful no self thing I've realized and none of my actions are no longer a problem. Everything is ok as it is. Everything is seriously not ok as it is.

I would say though, everything is as it is. Even simpler, everything is. But that doesn't mean the most enlightened form of action is to just lose ourselves in heaven and life and problems don't become an issue anymore. That's just getting our head stuck in the clouds. A mature individual lives what they have realized, they come back to earth and live as an ordinary human being. And hopefully, a productive one that can be of benefit to society as a whole.

I feel bad about smoking cannabis all day and not getting anything done or not being of benefit to anyone or anything. It doesn't feel right to be wasted all the time, and no amount of, allowing or accepting or not resisting, is going to change that. That's extremely passive and it's not at all a useful method for solving problems or takling issues.

I'm sorry for the rant, I don't mean to attack you in any way, I'm just so frustrated with spirituality, and I'm fed up. Sometimes i feel there is so much focus on spirituality, teachings and so on, that it actually just obscures the simplicity of the present moment. I've read so many manuals on how to be mindful, or meditate, or whatever. Who the hell am i supposed to listen to? Do I practice awareness of my breath? or full on mindfulness practice? Zen meditation? Being aware of being aware, or what Eckhart Tolle teaches, or Adyashanti, or Rupert Spira? Honestly fuck all this spiritual practice. Everything becomes an object of attention. And I don't believe any amount of doing, or not doing, is going to enlighten a person. I'm so fucking done. I have neither the energy nor the will to chase or even desire some dream of enlightenment or otherwise. I'm so fucking tired of trying to maintain some state or something. I'm just so fucking done.

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Andreas18
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Re: The Pendulum

Postby Andreas18 » Fri Aug 23, 2019 2:29 pm

You know, never mind. I think I'm ok


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