Explore Life. Meet Yourself.

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enthusiasm
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Explore Life. Meet Yourself.

Postby enthusiasm » Sun Mar 24, 2019 10:40 pm

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
We all are the Is-ness manifested in different bodies and forms.

What are you looking for at LU?
I am looking for a guide to confirm my own views and support me during the process of stripping away the person who's costume is still holding strong. Sometimes I feel alone and need someone who can understand me.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
Being truly reflected and supported. I need someone who has similar world vision and to whom I can speak about this. Everything is happening as it should but often times my personal problems seem too big which only comes to show a role of mine is being taken too seriously.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
I know we are more than what is obvious for a long time, but something of my human form would not let go of the attachment to the body form which keeps me in a pain cycle. I need help resolving this.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self? 11

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Jack'n'theBox
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Re: Explore Life. Meet Yourself.

Postby Jack'n'theBox » Wed Apr 17, 2019 10:45 am

Hello enthusiasm -- do you have a name?

I see you've been waiting a while for a guide -- maybe because you ask for someone who can confirm your views. But that's not what we do here. We point beyond views. We don't offer counselling.

What I can do is help you look for the "I" that feels alone.

What I can do is help you see through the "person" that thinks it has problems.

If that works for you then let me know.

Mark
People see it far away. What a pity! They are like a man who, standing in water, complains of thirst -- Hakuin

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enthusiasm
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Re: Explore Life. Meet Yourself.

Postby enthusiasm » Wed Apr 17, 2019 10:52 am

Hi Mark,

So nice to finally be able to connect and be reflected in words.

The name I'm called by is Tatyana. And yes, that's what I need to strip away - the thoughts of a person in a body being real. Although I already have a glimpse of that, sometimes these thoughts provoke the feelings that come to my seeing get me carried away in the story that I need to improve or become "better and cooler" in order to feel good.

Would love to verify that this is on its way to be dissolved.

Grateful to have this opportunity,
Tatyana

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Jack'n'theBox
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Re: Explore Life. Meet Yourself.

Postby Jack'n'theBox » Wed Apr 17, 2019 11:32 am

Hi Tatyana.

OK great, let's get started.

In the approach we use here we are only interested in what can be found directly in experience. So let's have a look at what shows up in "experience".

Please take a look to see what is showing up now. Can you find anything that can't be described as a thought, a sensation (the 5 "body" senses) or a feeling/emotion?

Mark
People see it far away. What a pity! They are like a man who, standing in water, complains of thirst -- Hakuin

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enthusiasm
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Re: Explore Life. Meet Yourself.

Postby enthusiasm » Wed Apr 17, 2019 11:50 am

Please take a look to see what is showing up now. Can you find anything that can't be described as a thought, a sensation (the 5 "body" senses) or a feeling/emotion?
Mark,

The only thing that is different and can't be described as neither of the things you mention is the knowing itself. It is the vivid witness of everything that is happening and all the functioning through the body and its given systems. Nothing more than that at that point.

Appreciate you,
Tatyana

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Jack'n'theBox
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Re: Explore Life. Meet Yourself.

Postby Jack'n'theBox » Wed Apr 17, 2019 9:29 pm

OK thanks Tatanya.

So can we say that the "content" of experience is made up of thoughts, sensations and feelings?

(Let's leave what it is that "knows" this content for a bit further down the line, if that's OK?)

So let's have a look for this "I" or this "person" that thinks it needs to become "better and cooler" in order to become good.

How does this "I" show up in experience? Is it constantly presents or does it seem stronger or more apparent at specific times?

What is this "I" or "person" made of -- is it a thought, a sensation, a feeling -- a combination of these things -- or something else?

Have a look and let me know what comes up.

Thanks!
People see it far away. What a pity! They are like a man who, standing in water, complains of thirst -- Hakuin

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enthusiasm
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Re: Explore Life. Meet Yourself.

Postby enthusiasm » Wed Apr 17, 2019 11:05 pm

Hi again, Mark,

(Sure, I'm leaving that which "knows" aside for now.)

Coming from experience, this personal "me" which needs to improve in order to feel liked and that needs improvement is a mix of sensations, feelings and thoughts which are not a constant for my experience. They appear as a product of something provoking them, something happening, being it a thought or a circumstance.

Hm :)

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Jack'n'theBox
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Re: Explore Life. Meet Yourself.

Postby Jack'n'theBox » Thu Apr 18, 2019 12:38 am

OK, thanks for looking Tatanya.

So these "me" thoughts/sensations/feelings sometimes show up and sometimes they don't.

So "me" isn't a constant experience?

Could we say that "me" only shows up when thinking thoughts about "me"?

What is experience like if we drop or disregard the "me" thoughts?
People see it far away. What a pity! They are like a man who, standing in water, complains of thirst -- Hakuin

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enthusiasm
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Re: Explore Life. Meet Yourself.

Postby enthusiasm » Thu Apr 18, 2019 4:06 am

Thank you, Mark, for the confirmations.

So when this "me" isn't there, there is peace and silence. But that is a recent discovery. Not too long ago the peace and the silence weren't so easy to observe and they were rather a rare occasion compared to the troubled thoughts and sensations.

But the "me" that goes away with the worries and the fears isn't the whole Me in a way.

🙏

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Jack'n'theBox
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Re: Explore Life. Meet Yourself.

Postby Jack'n'theBox » Thu Apr 18, 2019 4:50 am

OK great, let's look at this.
But the "me" that goes away with the worries and the fears isn't the whole Me in a way.

Right. We aren't trying to make the "me" go away so much as to see that it was never really there in the first place.

Even when there are worries and fears showing up -- is there ever a "me" that is worried and afraid?

What is "worry" in experience -- some thoughts, sensations and feelings?

Are these appearances owned by anything? I mean can you find a worry-er? A thing that is doing the worrying?
People see it far away. What a pity! They are like a man who, standing in water, complains of thirst -- Hakuin

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enthusiasm
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Re: Explore Life. Meet Yourself.

Postby enthusiasm » Thu Apr 18, 2019 8:56 pm

Even when there are worries and fears showing up -- is there ever a "me" that is worried and afraid?
No, not really.

What is "worry" in experience -- some thoughts, sensations and feelings?
Just that - thoughts, sensations and feelings.

Are these appearances owned by anything? I mean can you find a worry-er? A thing that is doing the worrying?
No, no worry experiencer, just an idea of an identity which is object of the worries.

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enthusiasm
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Re: Explore Life. Meet Yourself.

Postby enthusiasm » Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:14 pm

Worry experiencer... That's not even a thing. Worry just happens.

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Jack'n'theBox
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Re: Explore Life. Meet Yourself.

Postby Jack'n'theBox » Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:59 pm

Worry experiencer... That's not even a thing. Worry just happens.

Right! That's funny.

Notice how stuff just shows up. Try sitting by the window and just relaxing and notice what shows up -- don't label the objects as it were, just notice the kind of experiencing as it arises. It might go something like this . . . watching . . . watching . . . listening . . . thinking . . . thinking . . . feeling . . . watching . . . etc.


Just notice how attention seems to move toward whatever is most prominent at that moment . . . the sound of a car . . . a thought about lunch . . . a bird in the garden . . . notice that there is a flow to all this . . .


Now, once you are in touch with the flow, relax and allow attention to look back as it were . . . can you find any thing . . . any person . . . who is doing the attending . . . something that owns and directs the attention . . . can you locate this attend-er, say to within an inch or so?
People see it far away. What a pity! They are like a man who, standing in water, complains of thirst -- Hakuin

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enthusiasm
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Re: Explore Life. Meet Yourself.

Postby enthusiasm » Fri Apr 19, 2019 8:44 pm

Mark,

No, nobody stands behind what shows up for the attention. My experience as I stay with the attention turned towards the attention itself, things just pop up in the field of noticing. Like little air balloons in water.

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Jack'n'theBox
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Re: Explore Life. Meet Yourself.

Postby Jack'n'theBox » Fri Apr 19, 2019 9:02 pm

OK great.

So this "water" that the air balloons pop up in. Let's look at it more closely.

Does it have an age, a name, a gender?

Does it have a job, needs, preferences?

Is the water affected in any way by what pops up in it?
People see it far away. What a pity! They are like a man who, standing in water, complains of thirst -- Hakuin


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