insight

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Alaya
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insight

Postby Alaya » Fri Mar 08, 2019 9:47 pm

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?

A 'self' is a concept, a thought; a self makes no logical sense and yet is formed by a logical mind; when I follow its trajectory it's totally bonkers! and yet most of the time 'I' believe in its existence, I believe in the story created - though, the stories change very quickly...

What are you looking for at LU?

clarity, a deeper understanding of what the existence really is; breaking through the first three fetters; seeing how my mind works, letting thoughts come and go without making them personal; transforming a sticky mind to a clean mind;

What do you expect from a guided conversation?

a new, fresh experience, seeing through some of the habituated views; I know I can't do it on my own, I value direct pointing and gaining clarity; I want to continue to tune into the sense of existence-without necessarily being ' somebody'

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
I am a committed Buddhist practitioner

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self? 11

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Seamist
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Re: insight

Postby Seamist » Sun Mar 10, 2019 9:22 pm

Hello, I am also a Buddhist and am happy to guide you if you would like that?
Sioned

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Alaya
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Re: insight

Postby Alaya » Sun Mar 10, 2019 10:50 pm

Hello Sioned,
thanks for your reply, yes I would like your guidance

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Seamist
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Re: insight

Postby Seamist » Mon Mar 11, 2019 9:26 am

Hi Alaya,

I am happy to assist you in exploring the idea of the separate self. At LU we are described as guides - not teachers - as our role is to directly point to what IS, through the use of exercises and questions. Your role is to LOOK carefully to what is being pointed at. It is this simple LOOKING (not thinking) that brings the realisation that there is no separate self and never has been. This is an experiential based guiding and is not a discussion or a debate.

Here are links to information I would like you to read before we begin.

Disclaimer:-

http://liberationunleashed.com/disclaimer-2/

Terms & Conditions:-

https://www.liberationunleashed.com/register/terms/


“Liberation Unleashed is not …” in the FAQ’s of LU.

http://liberationunleashed.com/about/faq/#faq-1041


Please learn to use the quote function. When replying to a question, please use the quote function to highlight the question being answered. Instructions are located in the link below:

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=660

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fAToDNh9hQ&app=desktop

Please confirm that you have read the disclaimer and the other links and we can then begin the exploration.

Finally...What would you like me to call you?


Sioned

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Alaya
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Re: insight

Postby Alaya » Mon Mar 11, 2019 10:44 pm

Great stuff, thanks for the clarity; I am with you on this - I look forward to the looking process!

anyway, have read the disclaimer and other links
Please learn to use the quote function. When replying to a question, please use the quote function to highlight the question being answered. Instructions are located in the link below:
yep - I think I got how to use the quote function

Finally...What would you like me to call you?
Alaya is just fine, thanks

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Seamist
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Location: Shropshire, UK

Re: insight

Postby Seamist » Tue Mar 12, 2019 12:42 pm

Ok, Alaya,
Thank you for reading the links, including the disclaimer and using the quote function.

Some housekeeping guidelines:-
1. Post at least once a day, or every second day. If you need more time, or are unable to post for several days, just write a quick post on your thread to let me know please.

2. Please answer what's true for you once you have looked to see what is being pointed at, rather than any sort of 'ideal' answer. Ideal answers may sound good but will be of no benefit to you in having you realise that there is no separate self. There is no one judging answers given, so please be100% honest in your answers and inquiry.

3. This exploration is based on actual experience (AE) - smell, taste, sound, sensation, colour and observed thoughts. Long-winded analytical and philosophical answers are best avoided and may even hinder progress. This is not a self-improvement process. There is no ‘self’ to improve.

4. Put aside all other teachings, philosophies, rituals, practices, books/reading and so on for the remainder of this investigation. Really put all your effort and attention in to seeing this reality, as it is. If you have a daily meditation practice, it is fine to continue that but is not necessary for this exploration. Be here with an open and curious mind.

Technology is not perfect and sometimes there is a glitch which can wipe out your responses. It is advisable that you copy and paste questions asked into Word, answer them there and then copy and paste them to your thread. Always save a copy of what you have done in Word - it will save you time in the long run!

To begin with, so that we both become aware of what your expectations are about this exploration ie what life will look and feel like and what you want/hope will change or not change etc in your own words could you please answer the 4 following questions::

How will life change?
How will you change?
What will be different?
What is missing?


Throughout this exploration I would like you to answer all questions that I have written in bold text. Please answer questions individually, remembering to use the quote function to highlight the question being answered.
Sioned

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Alaya
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Re: insight

Postby Alaya » Tue Mar 12, 2019 10:33 pm

Hello Sioned,
Thank you for all the useful information and the reminders around looking into the actual experience;
How will life change?
I guess life will be life, with its own fullness aliveness and surprises; life is change , constant change, there is constant movement;
how will you change?
I really don't know, the 'me' as habitual patterns will probably keep running , I will have emotional responses; I have a feeling that 'i' will want to have a say - when I sit with this question, I feel more energy flowing through my lower belly;
what will be different
Less identity with the responses, clarity of what is,
Feeling,experiencing responses without identifying,or with being aware of identifying with whatever arises
what is missing
Do you mean what is missing right now? In my life?
I don't think anything is missing
I feel ready to go deeper with the exploration of what the self really is

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Seamist
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Re: insight

Postby Seamist » Tue Mar 12, 2019 10:56 pm

Sounds good. Any fears? Any doubts?

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Alaya
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Re: insight

Postby Alaya » Wed Mar 13, 2019 9:57 pm

Any fears? Any doubts?
totally! I am scared, at times terrified! been sitting with this question all day, it makes me feel unsettled, then I feel fear, which straight away goes into a story - for example: through this process: will I have a nervous breakdown or will i get depressed? or will i separate myself from others? this is the base storyline when i get in touch with fears
though now after all day I question the fear itself - isn't this a story itself?
With doubt, there is something emerging but not clear yet - something around the basis of my Buddhist practice, is this also based on some sort of story or belief , that's when the doubt is more alive, though when i sit with the open heart, relaxed in the body, the doubt is loosening its meaning

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Seamist
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Re: insight

Postby Seamist » Wed Mar 13, 2019 11:47 pm

Interesting, isn't it? Great uncovering on your part - well done.

Have a look at this exercise now to explore this area of fear further.
Notice fear is like a door, it holds you from looking behind the door. But it's just fear. It’s ok for it to be here, it is only doing its job. Just let it be there, acknowledge its presence with respect and gratitude, check where it feels physically in the body. Notice sensation.

What is fear itself?
What is it protecting?
What needs to be protected?
What is that feels threatened?

Ask it to reveal why it’s here, what it is trying to tell you, ask the fear to share its wisdom.
If there is no self, then there is nothing that needs to be protected, right?
Honor the feeling. Bow to it, thank it for doing its job. Notice, it is here to protect, it's a friend. Fear is really love in disguise. It is only showing you where to look, the dark areas.

Now, look behind it.
Is there anything behind the fear?
if so, what? And what is behind that?

x

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Alaya
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Re: insight

Postby Alaya » Thu Mar 14, 2019 1:13 pm

Thanks for this,
There is something reassuring with the way you explained the fear,it's like coming back to what is,just how it is
I like the excersize - imagined the door in front of me and a situation where I have to step up,come out of my comfort zone ,eg lead a meditation to a group of people;
First I notice that this door in front of me is of the shape of my body from shoulders down to where my legs begin; it feels like a bunch of pulsating tangled energies throughout the whole core but also at the edges; when I stay with sensetions they are actually just vibrant and alive - it's when I want to do something with them ,then it turns into some tension in parts of my body - in the lower belly mainly but also shoulders etc all a subtle clenching around the edges of my body - maybe that's where the door is locked! I lock it by wanting to do something with it?
what is fear itself?
Ok so looks like fear is a response,rather my mind's response,my mind's reaction; it doesn't have a label of fear when I stay in the body - in the body it's more of a heightened energy, when I don't know how to respond to it my mind translates it as fear;
what is it protecting?
That what I think is safe; though that understanding of safety is a static thought - it has to be experienced within a known specific way/pattern the way the brain already knows - so it's kind of locked - here I see the connection with the sensation of locked energies I explored at the beginning ;
So it's protection habitual known pattern,because any other unknown is an unpredictable threat
No place for freedom here!
what needs to be protected?
Generally my well being needs to be protected, but not my habitual behaviour, if I keep protecting my habits I keep running round and round , without stepping into creativity and newness,
Though why this feels as scary? Oh because fear is a thought a concept, so maybe that's the discomfort of change of energy which I translate as fear,so I push it away
what is that feels threatened?
Can the story of 'i' feel threatened?
The I is a created concept, a habit,so it's nature is to behave,respond the same way,when similar triggers occur; so if I want to respond differently,then ... This habit is threatened?
ask it to reveal...
It actually wants to be noticed, it's like a child or a very lonely friend,just wanting to connect, I feel sad and vulnerable when get in touch with it; I realize I keep pushing away this art of me,again and again;
What it's trying to tell me is that there is a new opportunity,new way to respond,;
The body response is here very energetic,more like anxiety mixed with excitement, not sure how to separate them in my understanding;
So yes,I don't know what would be protected apart from repeating the pattern;

Turning towards fear,
Feels like turning towards my own body, my core, my gut and all core area, it feels like returning to where I am, if that makes any sense?
Seeing it as friend ,as love softens my body, softens my heart and my eyes
It's like I become more aware and open to what's around as well, like the boundaries of my body are loosened;

Behind fear? There is connection,sense of freshness,
Potential even

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Alaya
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Re: insight

Postby Alaya » Thu Mar 14, 2019 1:16 pm

Hi Sioned,
I'm really enjoying the exploration,
Thanks for helpful pointers!
Just to let you know - I am now on the way on a weekend retreat, will be still online til the evening
But possibly offline during the retreat - though hope to find a connection to carry on with the inquiry;
If I can't plug in then will be offline from tomorrow til Monday morning
Hope that's ok!
X

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Seamist
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Location: Shropshire, UK

Re: insight

Postby Seamist » Thu Mar 14, 2019 2:02 pm

Good noticing there,and good exploration of sensation /vedana.
and this is lovely
Behind fear? There is connection,sense of freshness,
Potential even
- I agree!
Did you find this a helpful exercise?

And thanks for letting me know that you'll be away at the weekend - that's not a problem at all. I appreciate your letting me know, though.

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Alaya
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Re: insight

Postby Alaya » Thu Mar 14, 2019 4:37 pm

Thanks, and yes
I find this excersize very helpful
It's like some kind of attitude training - will take it with me on the weekend!

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Seamist
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Location: Shropshire, UK

Re: insight

Postby Seamist » Thu Mar 14, 2019 5:18 pm

Ok. The key to this work really is the dropping of everything that's not direct experience


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