Help me see reality - Guide request : adilerten

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Tiger01
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Re: Help me see reality - Guide request : adilerten

Postby Tiger01 » Thu Jan 03, 2019 3:29 pm

This is my understanding and level of experience when I'm looking


What is Body? This image & everything related.
Wait.
AE of "Body" is a thought
So what is experienced is an AE of an image, labelled as "body" or "my body". which is fine...


Who is doing or choosing or experiencing or thinking? Well "I" am! It's "me."
Wait.
AE "I" or "me" are thoughts.
So what is experienced as a doer or thinker or experiencer is also in thought as "I" or something similar
Good looking Tiger :)
let's make it more clear and obvious,

The label ‘body’ is the Actual Experience of thought and not the Actual Experience of a body
The sensation labelled ‘body’ is the AE of sensation and not the AE of a body
The colours (image) labelled ‘body’ is the AE of colours and not the AE of a body
The smells labelled ‘body smells’ is the AE of smell and is not the AE of a body
The sounds labelled as ‘body sounds’ is the AE of sound and not the AE of a body

Let's take "hand"

The label 'hand' is AE of thought and not AE of a hand
The sensation labelled as hand is AE of sensation and not AE if a hand
The image labelled as hand is AE of colour and not AE of a hand

The thoughts about what a hand is and does (content of thought) are AE of thought and not AE of a hand
Clear ?
Yes it is!
Yet there is so much upheaval from thoughts & sensations as look this is the body! Even if you don't call it the body.. this image is here.. you have to feed this.. exercise this thing... you have to earn money... you have to work hard
I've to process that the identification exists but the movement will happen with or without the identification

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Tiger01
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Re: Help me see reality - Guide request : adilerten

Postby Tiger01 » Fri Jan 04, 2019 8:54 am

Why is that few days I have a great sense of clarity. And then the next few days it's all confusion again!
Am I doing the inquiry in the wrong way!

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Tiger01
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Re: Help me see reality - Guide request : adilerten

Postby Tiger01 » Fri Jan 04, 2019 9:21 am

(For comms i'm using body)
When we say I am this body or this is me. Everything else is not me.
I think I am referring to the image of this body. And not even the sensations.
That is y when we see an image of the body, we go! hey that's me...

When i close my eyes, the image vanishes. What exists is sensations, sounds and thoughts right?
sensations are no different that sounds, like they come and go.. some are painful like noise sounds, some are pleasant like nature sounds... But do the sensations themselves say anything that it's me. NO.

Then thoughts are going on... That is the AE of thought.
And yet I am here! What is the nature of this?
I had a nightmare yesterday & woke up. Then i just relaxed knowing it was nightmare! But when i was in it, i could swear i was der. And even now, I can swear I am here. What is the nature of this?

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Tiger01
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Re: Help me see reality - Guide request : adilerten

Postby Tiger01 » Fri Jan 04, 2019 9:49 am

Continuing of the previous post
There is no other true experience than direct experience.
Can you tell me more about an orientation ?
What is this "orientation" in direct experience ?
Can you look deeper to this "orientation" ?
Can you see, touch, smell, hear, or taste this "orientation" ?
don't think just look!

This is what i meant by orientation.... As I am here
I'm not yet sure but it felt somewhere in the eyes region... I'm still investigating
Orientation was when we turn our head we focus on different things right
Same thing when i close my eyes, i felt that was the area or some form of center or something

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adilerten
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Re: Help me see reality - Guide request : adilerten

Postby adilerten » Fri Jan 04, 2019 1:33 pm

Why is that few days I have a great sense of clarity. And then the next few days it's all confusion again!
Am I doing the inquiry in the wrong way!
no "you" are not doing anything wrong.
What happens just happens. It is ok.
Realising 'no self' happens, but there will also be periods of checking, and doubting, and rechecking, and that is all normal. There will still be beliefs and patterns that are rooted in the idea of being a separate self that will need clearing..So yo-yoing happens..all normal experiences.
Did you decide to get lost in thought and confusion ? Did you chose that great clarity to happen ?
Or it simply happened ?

:)
Events happen, deeds are done, but there is no individual doer thereof."
Buddha

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adilerten
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Re: Help me see reality - Guide request : adilerten

Postby adilerten » Fri Jan 04, 2019 1:54 pm

let's clear the field little bit :)

i am asking again, without relying on the mental explanations

Please see, touch, smell, hear, or taste the “I” behind the eyes.

Can you ?
Events happen, deeds are done, but there is no individual doer thereof."
Buddha

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Tiger01
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Re: Help me see reality - Guide request : adilerten

Postby Tiger01 » Fri Jan 04, 2019 2:40 pm

Please see, touch, smell, hear, or taste the “I” behind the eyes.

Can you ?
There was a belief that "I am this body"
And u helped me see that is the AE of a image
This belief hasn't gone entirely but there is clarity.
Especially when I close my eyes. The image is gone.

Now There is a belief that "I am here"
All this is happening to me. These sounds,sensations & thoughts.
It is true for me to say these 3 exist as compared to happening to me. But that's the way mind is working..

Even if I don't go to thoughts and just focus on AE, there is something that feels like "Am". I've looked for image, sound, etc but there is nothing that is here or at least haven't found anything. Can't put a box around this Amness, nor can I say its not a boxable thing..

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adilerten
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Re: Help me see reality - Guide request : adilerten

Postby adilerten » Sat Jan 05, 2019 12:10 pm

Please see, touch, smell, hear, or taste the “I” behind the eyes.

Can you ?

There was a belief that "I am this body"
And u helped me see that is the AE of a image
This belief hasn't gone entirely but there is clarity.
Especially when I close my eyes. The image is gone.
Belief is simply thought, then let it be there by knowing that it is just a thought..
Only a thought..
Same with another thought saying bla bla bla bla :)
If you look to a sunset. There is color(s). And thought commentary saying "oh it's red, oh lovely sunset"
Even if it says "bla bla bla bla" instead of "oh it's red, oh lovely sunset" it does not change what is really happening :)
Now There is a belief that "I am here"
All this is happening to me. These sounds,sensations & thoughts.
It is true for me to say these 3 exist as compared to happening to me. But that's the way mind is working..
It is just "what is" is the perfect labelling if you need for explanations..
But why need an explanation.
It is already happening how it happens. No doer, no feeler, no center these sound+sensation+thoughts happening to..
Ask anytime that thought arises..."Where is this "I" ?
Knowing / Being aware is there. That's it. Life living on its own accord.
Simple.
Even if I don't go to thoughts and just focus on AE, there is something that feels like "Am". I've looked for image, sound, etc but there is nothing that is here or at least haven't found anything. Can't put a box around this Amness, nor can I say its not a boxable thing..
Thought content is more thought.
Only true compass is the direct experiences.

Do you have questions till now ?
Where do you think we must look more ?



Sending love
Events happen, deeds are done, but there is no individual doer thereof."
Buddha

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Tiger01
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Re: Help me see reality - Guide request : adilerten

Postby Tiger01 » Mon Jan 07, 2019 8:46 am

Do you have questions till now ?
Where do you think we must look more ?

What is recognizing "I" as a thought. Isn't it another thought? Sometimes when I do this, my head hurts. Maybe bcz one part of the brain is trying to control the other or something.


Some other operating system must come up to replace "I" platform. Otherwise it's just mind re-referencing mind and again.
I mean no work gets done!

When "I" was the platform i could psych myself or motivate myself or force myself to get things done without procrastinating.

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adilerten
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Re: Help me see reality - Guide request : adilerten

Postby adilerten » Mon Jan 07, 2019 12:46 pm

Do you have questions till now ?
Where do you think we must look more ?


What is recognizing "I" as a thought. Isn't it another thought? Sometimes when I do this, my head hurts. Maybe bcz one part of the brain is trying to control the other or something.
Thought is experience appearing as thought, no the other way round and experience is self-aware.
Can thought, which is not aware, which is not an entity actually recognize thoughts?
Can a thought think ?
What can a thought do ?
Events happen, deeds are done, but there is no individual doer thereof."
Buddha

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Tiger01
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Re: Help me see reality - Guide request : adilerten

Postby Tiger01 » Mon Jan 07, 2019 12:57 pm

Had a severe headache while i wrote the answer and had to get to work and get things done! Terrible situation.
Please consider this reply :)
Do you have questions till now ?
Where do you think we must look more ?

"I" was a thought before and it is a thought even now right?
At-least when "I" was not recognized just as a thought there was sense of purpose in life
But now when I aspire to build something, I end up thinking all there is sensory inputs + thoughts! What now!
It's just more thoughts and then there are bursts of energy as "I should do this" but then i notice that's a thought

Lot of spiritual people have spoken about destroying the "I" or ego to realize your true self and stuff..
But "I" is just a thought and moreover it does not exist in reality and how can anything that does not exist be destroyed!

And what is this true self that people would discover? where is it? All there is the sensory experience + thoughts about(past,experience,future)

Is it important to marinate in this Actual experience? But haven't I always been in AE.

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Tiger01
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Re: Help me see reality - Guide request : adilerten

Postby Tiger01 » Mon Jan 07, 2019 1:09 pm

Can a thought think ?
What can a thought do ?
No. It can exist or not exist. But here is the catch...
Thought can create mental or emotional states. When I hum "Eye of the tiger" I find myself in a motivated emotional state.
When I hum "Another brick in the wall" or "Summer time sadness" I find myself sad or lonely emotional states...
This is happening throughout the day in subtler ways with thought.. I find my emotional states changing with thoughts
When I listen to "Working Class Hero" I just want to kill myself But If i'm listening to "We are the champions" I feel i can conquer the world.

These emotional states are real and there is an experience of them.

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adilerten
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Re: Help me see reality - Guide request : adilerten

Postby adilerten » Mon Jan 07, 2019 3:23 pm

"I" was a thought before and it is a thought even now right?
At-least when "I" was not recognized just as a thought there was sense of purpose in life
But now when I aspire to build something, I end up thinking all there is sensory inputs + thoughts! What now!
It's just more thoughts and then there are bursts of energy as "I should do this" but then i notice that's a thought

Lot of spiritual people have spoken about destroying the "I" or ego to realize your true self and stuff..
But "I" is just a thought and moreover it does not exist in reality and how can anything that does not exist be destroyed!

And what is this true self that people would discover? where is it? All there is the sensory experience + thoughts about(past,experience,future)

Is it important to marinate in this Actual experience? But haven't I always been in AE.

There is absolutely no ultimate meaning/purpose/reason of things seemingly happening.
They just are. It just is. It is only "what is".
As you say it is just more thoughts claiming so..

Lot of spiritual people have spoken about destroying the "I" or ego to realize your true self and stuff..
But "I" is just a thought and moreover it does not exist in reality and how can anything that does not exist be destroyed!

That is totally correct! There was/is nothing to be destroyed.
There is only seeing, hearing, tasting, sensing, smelling. Infact, even these words 'seeing, smelling, tasting, hearing, sensing' are just words that comes out of thoughts. In reality, there is just THIS EXPERIENCE. And what is aware of this experience? It is aware of itself.
Thoughts then comes into being separating experience into ‘seeing, hearing, sensing, etc.’. Then thought further divides seeing into seer, seeing and seen.
Now you have seen that there is “no center” to experiences. There is JUST EXPERIENCE that is AWARE of ITSELF
As you say "All there is the experience" and it is self aware.
Events happen, deeds are done, but there is no individual doer thereof."
Buddha

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adilerten
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Re: Help me see reality - Guide request : adilerten

Postby adilerten » Mon Jan 07, 2019 3:24 pm

What about a "feeling" of a self ?
Is it still there ?

Look!
Events happen, deeds are done, but there is no individual doer thereof."
Buddha

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Tiger01
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Re: Help me see reality - Guide request : adilerten

Postby Tiger01 » Mon Jan 07, 2019 8:11 pm

Little hectic. I'll take a day or two to get back :)


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