Help me see reality - Guide request : adilerten

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adilerten
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Re: Help me see reality - Guide request : adilerten

Postby adilerten » Fri Dec 28, 2018 1:06 pm

So far we investigated body-nature of thoughts-direct /actual experience-doer..
And could not find any me or self in any form, anywhere..
Do you have any questions until here Tiger ?
Events happen, deeds are done, but there is no individual doer thereof."
Buddha

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adilerten
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Re: Help me see reality - Guide request : adilerten

Postby adilerten » Fri Dec 28, 2018 1:08 pm

No grand expectations but I thought.. Never mind

Come on say.. :)
Events happen, deeds are done, but there is no individual doer thereof."
Buddha

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Tiger01
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Re: Help me see reality - Guide request : adilerten

Postby Tiger01 » Fri Dec 28, 2018 1:15 pm

Come on say.. :)

Enlightened people describe it in various ways. But essentially they say it's the most beautiful.
For me the most beautiful experience was seeing snow clad peaks. It was amazing! But this is nothing. Just the same process of sensations, thought stories, sounds going on... But now you know its not "I" doing it bcz "I" is also a thought

So far we investigated body-nature of thoughts-direct /actual experience-doer..
And could not find any me or self in any form, anywhere..
Do you have any questions until here Tiger ?
Nope. We did find that the self or "I" was a thought and it is identified with this body!
But contents of thoughts aren't real so we looked and found nothing concrete in reality as "I"

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adilerten
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Re: Help me see reality - Guide request : adilerten

Postby adilerten » Fri Dec 28, 2018 3:10 pm

Enlightened people describe it in various ways. But essentially they say it's the most beautiful.
For me the most beautiful experience was seeing snow clad peaks. It was amazing! But this is nothing. Just the same process of sensations, thought stories, sounds going on... But now you know its not "I" doing it bcz "I" is also a thought
I understand the expectations created by different sources. But all there is is your direct experience.
Also some label this as "gorgeous meaninglessness" :)
when you see that life is unfolding on its own, it is beautiful isn't it ?

So far we investigated body-nature of thoughts-direct /actual experience-doer..
And could not find any me or self in any form, anywhere..
Do you have any questions until here Tiger ?

Nope. We did find that the self or "I" was a thought and it is identified with this body!
But contents of thoughts aren't real so we looked and found nothing concrete in reality as "I"
Super.
Let's go on then..
Events happen, deeds are done, but there is no individual doer thereof."
Buddha

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adilerten
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Re: Help me see reality - Guide request : adilerten

Postby adilerten » Fri Dec 28, 2018 3:15 pm

Let’s look at thought and the content of thought a little more,


Write the word "I" on a piece of paper. Look at the word, is that YOU?

Speak the word “I” silently; be aware of any sensations or responses to this word.

Are any of these reactions in the body or mind by themselves YOU?

Now say the word “I” aloud. Is that sound YOU?

Is the combination of any of these, the word, the sound, the thought YOU?”

Is the thought, "I exist" you?

Is the thought "I" you?
Events happen, deeds are done, but there is no individual doer thereof."
Buddha

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Tiger01
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Re: Help me see reality - Guide request : adilerten

Postby Tiger01 » Sat Dec 29, 2018 9:22 am

Write the word "I" on a piece of paper. Look at the word, is that YOU?
NO
Speak the word “I” silently; be aware of any sensations or responses to this word.
Sensations in the chest. But NO.
Are any of these reactions in the body or mind by themselves YOU?
No. But then what is "YOU" or "ME"? There is just images, sound, sensations.
Now say the word “I” aloud. Is that sound YOU?
NO
Is the combination of any of these, the word, the sound, the thought YOU?”
No.
Is the thought, "I exist" you?
The thought NO. But I do exist! (not thought I, but the body or energy or something)
Bcz I can't really reconcile with this... I have to go wash the dishes! I mean I don't want to... and yet have to!
Thought "I" as a thought does not exist. As a body(not thought) I do exist and have to go do these things!
I have to fill out my tax forms!
I'm not able to reconcile with this! It's like experience and understanding haven't synced up.
Is the thought "I" you?
NO.

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adilerten
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Re: Help me see reality - Guide request : adilerten

Postby adilerten » Sat Dec 29, 2018 1:03 pm

Very good looking Tiger!

Is the thought, "I exist" you?
The thought NO. But I do exist! (not thought I, but the body or energy or something)
Bcz I can't really reconcile with this... I have to go wash the dishes! I mean I don't want to... and yet have to!
Thought "I" as a thought does not exist. As a body(not thought) I do exist and have to go do these things!
I have to fill out my tax forms!
I'm not able to reconcile with this! It's like experience and understanding haven't synced up.
Washing dishes happening, filling out tax forms happening, reading happening, typing these letters happening..
Your belief that you are a body or not, you are a person or not does not change the movement.
Do you think this movement will stop if you stop believing that you are a body ?

Let's look more to the idea of body

Sit with eyes closed for about 15 minutes. Paying attention only to the pure sensations, without relying on thoughts or mental images:

Can it be known how tall the body is? Does the body have a weight or volume? In the actual experience does the body have a shape or a form?

Is there a boundary between the body and the clothing? Is there a boundary between the body and the chair?

Is there an inside or an outside? If there is an inside - the inside of what exactly? If there is an outside - the outside of what exactly?

What does the word/label ‘body’ ACTUALLY refer to? What is the ACTUAL experience of the body?
Events happen, deeds are done, but there is no individual doer thereof."
Buddha

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Tiger01
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Re: Help me see reality - Guide request : adilerten

Postby Tiger01 » Mon Dec 31, 2018 7:16 am

Can it be known how tall the body is? Does the body have a weight or volume? In the actual experience does the body have a shape or a form?
No
Is there a boundary between the body and the clothing? Is there a boundary between the body and the chair?
No
Is there an inside or an outside? If there is an inside - the inside of what exactly? If there is an outside - the outside of what exactly?
No
What does the word/label ‘body’ ACTUALLY refer to? What is the ACTUAL experience of the body?
Certain image. AND
"Orientation which is centered as if i am looking through my eyes
this exists even when the eyes is closed. "
My friend is sitting in front of me but i don't think I am his body. But if the orientation changed to his head maybe i would.

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adilerten
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Re: Help me see reality - Guide request : adilerten

Postby adilerten » Mon Dec 31, 2018 3:59 pm

"Orientation which is centered as if i am looking through my eyes
this exists even when the eyes is closed."

IS that true ?
Are you looking through your eyes out ?
Please see, touch, smell, hear, or taste the “I” behind the eyes.
How do you sense it?
Events happen, deeds are done, but there is no individual doer thereof."
Buddha

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Tiger01
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Re: Help me see reality - Guide request : adilerten

Postby Tiger01 » Tue Jan 01, 2019 3:29 pm

IS that true ?
Are you looking through your eyes out ?
Please see, touch, smell, hear, or taste the “I” behind the eyes.
How do you sense it?

That was to convey but i don't think i'm looking from within
In the direct experience
There is image and certain sensations.
And there is a orientation that is looking from here AT the door or ceiling or dog or person or laptop

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Tiger01
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Re: Help me see reality - Guide request : adilerten

Postby Tiger01 » Wed Jan 02, 2019 9:06 am

This is my understanding and level of experience when I'm looking


What is Body? This image & everything related.
Wait.
AE of "Body" is a thought
So what is experienced is an AE of an image, labelled as "body" or "my body". which is fine...


Who is doing or choosing or experiencing or thinking? Well "I" am! It's "me."
Wait.
AE "I" or "me" are thoughts.
So what is experienced as a doer or thinker or experiencer is also in thought as "I" or something similar

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adilerten
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Re: Help me see reality - Guide request : adilerten

Postby adilerten » Wed Jan 02, 2019 1:14 pm

IS that true ?
Are you looking through your eyes out ?
Please see, touch, smell, hear, or taste the “I” behind the eyes.
How do you sense it?

That was to convey but i don't think i'm looking from within
In the direct experience
There is image and certain sensations.
And there is a orientation that is looking from here AT the door or ceiling or dog or person or laptop
Hello Tiger..Sending you best wishes..
Let's look

Sure there is no one looking from anywhere..
There is no other true experience than direct experience.

Can you tell me more about an orientation ?
What is this "orientation" in direct experience ?
Can you look deeper to this "orientation" ?
Can you see, touch, smell, hear, or taste this "orientation" ?

don't think just look!


Sending love
Events happen, deeds are done, but there is no individual doer thereof."
Buddha

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adilerten
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Joined: Mon Jan 11, 2016 5:33 pm

Re: Help me see reality - Guide request : adilerten

Postby adilerten » Wed Jan 02, 2019 1:21 pm

This is my understanding and level of experience when I'm looking


What is Body? This image & everything related.
Wait.
AE of "Body" is a thought
So what is experienced is an AE of an image, labelled as "body" or "my body". which is fine...


Who is doing or choosing or experiencing or thinking? Well "I" am! It's "me."
Wait.
AE "I" or "me" are thoughts.
So what is experienced as a doer or thinker or experiencer is also in thought as "I" or something similar
Good looking Tiger :)
let's make it more clear and obvious,

The label ‘body’ is the Actual Experience of thought and not the Actual Experience of a body
The sensation labelled ‘body’ is the AE of sensation and not the AE of a body
The colours (image) labelled ‘body’ is the AE of colours and not the AE of a body
The smells labelled ‘body smells’ is the AE of smell and is not the AE of a body
The sounds labelled as ‘body sounds’ is the AE of sound and not the AE of a body

Let's take "hand"

The label 'hand' is AE of thought and not AE of a hand
The sensation labelled as hand is AE of sensation and not AE if a hand
The image labelled as hand is AE of colour and not AE of a hand

The thoughts about what a hand is and does (content of thought) are AE of thought and not AE of a hand

Clear ?
Events happen, deeds are done, but there is no individual doer thereof."
Buddha

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adilerten
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Re: Help me see reality - Guide request : adilerten

Postby adilerten » Wed Jan 02, 2019 1:28 pm

Another simple question we need to look just now Tiger,


Seeing, hearing, and other sensations are happening..
It is simply unfolding..
Life is lifing on its own accord..
That is for sure. We can say that for sure.

Put aside all what thought says about it and look..

But are you a seperate self experiencing these ?
Events happen, deeds are done, but there is no individual doer thereof."
Buddha

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Tiger01
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Re: Help me see reality - Guide request : adilerten

Postby Tiger01 » Thu Jan 03, 2019 3:23 pm

But are you a seperate self experiencing these ?

Today, I'm not sure!
I would jump and say.. Yes "Me" or "I"
But somehow there has been clarity that that is the AE of a thought
The only thing a thought can do is exist or not exist.

Then I would say body is the separate self experiencing these!
But then "body" is the AE of a thought.

I'm quite blank with just the AE of sounds, AE of sensations, AE of thoughts


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