Help me see reality - Guide request : adilerten

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adilerten
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Re: Help me see reality - Guide request : adilerten

Postby adilerten » Wed Dec 26, 2018 11:13 am

But I can think about something... So In experience there is me choosing to think about something in a focused manner.
Right now, I can pull up notes and put up a heading as "Christmas gifts" and come up with ideas for the next 15 minutes.
Plese see my questions blue marked Tiger :)

I need your focused attention that you were using at the beginning.. Take your time and look carefully again.

Let's look,

You can have a sense that "you" think about something, but you do you any idea how "christmas gifts" was chosen ?

why not "Popeye" or "summer winds" but christmas gifts ?

Did you eleminate trillion other possibilities one by one ?
Or simply "Christmas gifts" popped up due to needs, circumtances, given situations ?

I asked you and you said i don't about how was the decision made, sure you can never know which thought will appear when..
Even if you think you can recall one thought by will, you cannot know why that was chosen. LOOK! Can you ?

Can you see the automatic nature of thoughts ?

Where is that "you" choosing ?
Can you locate ?
Where does the finger show when you say "i" am thinking ?
IS there an actual "i" at that point finger shows ?
What is really there ?


Sending love
Events happen, deeds are done, but there is no individual doer thereof."
Buddha

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Tiger01
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Re: Help me see reality - Guide request : adilerten

Postby Tiger01 » Wed Dec 26, 2018 8:44 pm

**************
I got so pissed with myself bcz i was so lost in thought about reality and acting like a passive watcher!
I told myself everything around is real. The contents of thoughts are NOT. With intensity. Literal yelling.
Then there was some clarity.

When we speak, sounds come out of our mouth right? So I just focused thoughts arising in my mouth
Looking at thoughts in head, earlier used to give me headaches but just noticing thoughts popping in my mouth was easier.
some thoughts just transfer into speech automatically.
********************* I'm going to leave this here. Bcz it was part of what I did :P
You can have a sense that "you" think about something, but you do you any idea how "christmas gifts" was chosen ?

why not "Popeye" or "summer winds" but christmas gifts ?

Did you eleminate trillion other possibilities one by one ?
Or simply "Christmas gifts" popped up due to needs, circumtances, given situations ?
No i did not eliminate trillion possiblities. Actually the thought just came up at that moment.
Train of thoughts going on after another. Sometimes it's really busy. Sometimes there is a lot of gap between thoughts.


Can you control thought any more than you can control sound, can you control the focus on thought any more then the focus on sound?
Or is this simply a constant flow, a constant change and movement..?
Trying to control thoughts or calm thoughts is the most ridiculous thing. Bcz thoughts are so heavily dependent on past information.
Just like the sounds in your environment. In the future you can change thoughts or sounds by handling few things but at this moment. Sounds just are... Thoughts also just are.

I asked you and you said i don't about how was the decision made, sure you can never know which thought will appear when..
Even if you think you can recall on e thought by will, you cannot know why that was chosen. LOOK! Can you ?
Can you see the automatic nature of thoughts ?
YES. They are automatic.

Hey Adil, weird question. Did you do something for me so that I could see this clearly? Like guru's grace? IDK!
Bcz this clarity wasn't here yesterday. Not even in the morning!
Where is that "you" choosing ?
Can you locate ?
Where does the finger show when you say "i" am thinking ?
IS there an actual "i" at that point finger shows ?
Another thought
Same place where other thoughts are
The finger points at my mouth!
What is known is that "I" is a thought that is popping up just like any other thought


Thanks! :)

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Tiger01
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Re: Help me see reality - Guide request : adilerten

Postby Tiger01 » Wed Dec 26, 2018 8:59 pm

I was just sitting with this. And there are two words more personal than even my name which are "I" or "me".
"Me" feels a little more personal than "I".
"Me" translates to more than just a thought but into this feeling from my forehead to my chest to my stomach.

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Tiger01
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Re: Help me see reality - Guide request : adilerten

Postby Tiger01 » Thu Dec 27, 2018 7:48 am

****************************
Can you control thought any more than you can control sound, can you control the focus on thought any more then the focus on sound?
Or is this simply a constant flow, a constant change and movement..?

If you live in a noisy neighborhood where cars and honking is happening all the time. All forms of control is futile.
Maybe you can plan in the future and handle things and move to a quite neighborhood. But Right now, that IS.
Same thing with thoughts.
When thoughts have gap between them it feels peaceful just like the gaps between the traffic!
***************************** shall leave this here

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Tiger01
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Re: Help me see reality - Guide request : adilerten

Postby Tiger01 » Thu Dec 27, 2018 7:54 am

Also in one of the previous conversations
A sensation is not a body
A thought is not a body
A image is not a body
A sound is not a body
A smell is not a body
A taste is not a body

There is NO BODY! Period.

"I" is a thought
Somewhere there is identification with this.. well body! (Idk what else to say!)

When I say "I'm going to somewhere", there is a certain quality to the thought "I" which is just like any other thought
But at the same time "I" identifies with this body and the statement refers to the body going somewhere or doing something

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adilerten
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Re: Help me see reality - Guide request : adilerten

Postby adilerten » Thu Dec 27, 2018 11:48 am

**************
I got so pissed with myself bcz i was so lost in thought about reality and acting like a passive watcher!
I told myself everything around is real. The contents of thoughts are NOT. With intensity. Literal yelling.
Then there was some clarity.

When we speak, sounds come out of our mouth right? So I just focused thoughts arising in my mouth
Looking at thoughts in head, earlier used to give me headaches but just noticing thoughts popping in my mouth was easier.
some thoughts just transfer into speech automatically.
********************* I'm going to leave this here. Bcz it was part of what I did :P

Thanks for sharing Tiger ;)
Looks like LOOKING took place, that shows there is a new kind of perceiving.
That is awesome.

You can have a sense that "you" think about something, but you do you any idea how "christmas gifts" was chosen ?

why not "Popeye" or "summer winds" but christmas gifts ?

Did you eleminate trillion other possibilities one by one ?
Or simply "Christmas gifts" popped up due to needs, circumtances, given situations ?
No i did not eliminate trillion possiblities. Actually the thought just came up at that moment.
Train of thoughts going on after another. Sometimes it's really busy. Sometimes there is a lot of gap between thoughts.

Very good looking and seeing.


Can you control thought any more than you can control sound, can you control the focus on thought any more then the focus on sound?
Or is this simply a constant flow, a constant change and movement..?
Trying to control thoughts or calm thoughts is the most ridiculous thing. Bcz thoughts are so heavily dependent on past information.
Just like the sounds in your environment. In the future you can change thoughts or sounds by handling few things but at this moment. Sounds just are... Thoughts also just are.

Yes. Again very good looking and seeing. Thank you.
"In the future" is also another idea arising in the NOW!


I asked you and you said i don't about how was the decision made, sure you can never know which thought will appear when..
Even if you think you can recall on e thought by will, you cannot know why that was chosen. LOOK! Can you ?
Can you see the automatic nature of thoughts ?
YES. They are automatic.

Sure they unfold themselves random and beautifully..

Hey Adil, weird question. Did you do something for me so that I could see this clearly? Like guru's grace? IDK!
Bcz this clarity wasn't here yesterday. Not even in the morning!

For me to do anything to you we need a seperate "me" and a "you". That's just an idea.
That is just some other thoughts looking for a "thought" reason for a seemingly change.
There is no cause and effect because it requires "Time" which also does not exist.
That is just something which mind (thought) does to understand. A thought arises and collates all these different experiences (remembers them) and in order to house them all
imagines a linear of time in which can place all these objects and with that creates the idea of time.
Everything is appearing without any reason.
Question "why" is only more thoughts.

Where is that "you" choosing ?
Can you locate ?
Where does the finger show when you say "i" am thinking ?
IS there an actual "i" at that point finger shows ?
Another thought
Same place where other thoughts are
The finger points at my mouth!
What is known is that "I" is a thought that is popping up just like any other thought

Sure. Very good looking.
And you know and see that there is no "i" in the mouth right ?
Is there ? Can you take a photo and send me if there is an i in the mouth :) ?
Events happen, deeds are done, but there is no individual doer thereof."
Buddha

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adilerten
Posts: 1399
Joined: Mon Jan 11, 2016 5:33 pm

Re: Help me see reality - Guide request : adilerten

Postby adilerten » Thu Dec 27, 2018 11:54 am

****************************
Can you control thought any more than you can control sound, can you control the focus on thought any more then the focus on sound?
Or is this simply a constant flow, a constant change and movement..?

If you live in a noisy neighborhood where cars and honking is happening all the time. All forms of control is futile.
Maybe you can plan in the future and handle things and move to a quite neighborhood. But Right now, that IS.
Same thing with thoughts.
When thoughts have gap between them it feels peaceful just like the gaps between the traffic!
***************************** shall leave this here
very nice analogy..Sure you can say that.
:)
Focus more on these gaps..What will you do you will try to remember or try to experience and tell..
Is there really gaps ?
Or thought of gaps ? A memory thought (just same as all other thoughts) of a peacefulness, arising in the now!
Events happen, deeds are done, but there is no individual doer thereof."
Buddha

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adilerten
Posts: 1399
Joined: Mon Jan 11, 2016 5:33 pm

Re: Help me see reality - Guide request : adilerten

Postby adilerten » Thu Dec 27, 2018 11:57 am

When I say "I'm going to somewhere", there is a certain quality to the thought "I" which is just like any other thought
But at the same time "I" identifies with this body and the statement refers to the body going somewhere or doing something
Yes, statements refers body going somewhere or doing something..


But is it really actually like this ?

What is it more than color-sound-sensation and a thought creating an illusion about what is ?
Events happen, deeds are done, but there is no individual doer thereof."
Buddha

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Tiger01
Posts: 74
Joined: Thu Dec 20, 2018 10:04 am

Re: Help me see reality - Guide request : adilerten

Postby Tiger01 » Thu Dec 27, 2018 1:55 pm

And you know and see that there is no "i" in the mouth right ?
Is there ? Can you take a photo and send me if there is an i in the mouth :) ?
NO.

Yes, statements refers body going somewhere or doing something..
But is it really actually like this ?
What is it more than color-sound-sensation and a thought creating an illusion about what is ?

But is it an illusion? "Body" as a single word to reference this color-sound-sensation is more direct than saying it's combination of color-sound-sensation. Isn't it real? Does it not have needs and responsibilities?

"Me" translates to more than just a thought but into this feeling from my forehead to my chest to my stomach.
???


Thanks!

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adilerten
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Re: Help me see reality - Guide request : adilerten

Postby adilerten » Thu Dec 27, 2018 3:29 pm

But is it an illusion? "Body" as a single word to reference this color-sound-sensation is more direct than saying it's combination of color-sound-sensation. Isn't it real? Does it not have needs and responsibilities?
What we call real/not real will not change the fact that, hunger will happen, pain will happen, other needs will happen.
Yes it is a word to label the experience.
But when you press your forehead with your index finger lets say..
what is really there but sensation of pressure ?
Isn't it ?
Does anything as body can be found ?


"Me" translates to more than just a thought but into this feeling from my forehead to my chest to my stomach.
Does that feeling (sensation) carry any information that it is a "you" ?
Events happen, deeds are done, but there is no individual doer thereof."
Buddha

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adilerten
Posts: 1399
Joined: Mon Jan 11, 2016 5:33 pm

Re: Help me see reality - Guide request : adilerten

Postby adilerten » Thu Dec 27, 2018 3:42 pm

"Me" translates to more than just a thought but into this feeling from my forehead to my chest to my stomach.
What is the forehead and chest in the actual experience?
A sensation +
Isnt it a mental image (of a forehead and a chest) ?
Events happen, deeds are done, but there is no individual doer thereof."
Buddha

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Tiger01
Posts: 74
Joined: Thu Dec 20, 2018 10:04 am

Re: Help me see reality - Guide request : adilerten

Postby Tiger01 » Thu Dec 27, 2018 7:54 pm

it is a word to label the experience.
But when you press your forehead with your index finger lets say..
what is really there but sensation of pressure ?
Isn't it ?
Does anything as body can be found ?
Yes just sensations.
Does that feeling (sensation) carry any information that it is a "you" ?
No. Just a mental concept.



Sensations. Sounds. Color. Thoughts.
Is this all to reality? Honestly I don't see any beauty in this!
I mean is this really all?!

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adilerten
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Re: Help me see reality - Guide request : adilerten

Postby adilerten » Fri Dec 28, 2018 12:00 pm

it is a word to label the experience.
But when you press your forehead with your index finger lets say..
what is really there but sensation of pressure ?
Isn't it ?
Does anything as body can be found ?

Yes just sensations.

Does that feeling (sensation) carry any information that it is a "you" ?
No. Just a mental concept.
Very good looking.

Sensations. Sounds. Color. Thoughts.
Is this all to reality? Honestly I don't see any beauty in this!
I mean is this really all?!
:)
Beauty ?
I don't know what you mean by "beauty". But yes for mind may look boring.
Mind is like monkey always needs banana, looks for banana, dreams about banana..
That's ok.
Also about enlightenment you are right. There is nothing interesting about it. It won't add anything to you. On the contrary you will eventually drop lots of mental concepts like "beautiful" - "ugly" :)
No angels, no magic wand erasing all your troubles, no people around you seeing a halo around your head and respecting you.

Is it still interesting ?
Would you like to go on ?

:)
Events happen, deeds are done, but there is no individual doer thereof."
Buddha

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Tiger01
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Re: Help me see reality - Guide request : adilerten

Postby Tiger01 » Fri Dec 28, 2018 12:04 pm

No grand expectations but I thought.. Never mind
Is it still interesting ?
Would you like to go on ?
Sure

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Tiger01
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Re: Help me see reality - Guide request : adilerten

Postby Tiger01 » Fri Dec 28, 2018 1:02 pm

Is it still interesting ?
Would you like to go on ?

Sure :)


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