Help me see reality - Guide request : adilerten

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adilerten
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Re: Help me see reality - Guide request : adilerten

Postby adilerten » Wed Jan 30, 2019 2:34 pm

These words such as awareness or life or knowing seem so esoteric... and seems very misleading...

In experience i can just say, if attention is on an object then the object exists in experience...
If not, attention is on this blank slate or blank light/dark(depends)

And as attention moves around objects.. i have a sense that i am moving.. it makes me believe that i am somehow related to this movement ... that is the experience .. i know you will say, look if there is someone or something that you can touch or see or smell... I'm trying to look at it.... That is why i'm taking a few extra days to look at whats happening
I understand you Tiger.
There is an labelled of the experience as "moving".. That's ok. It is there. There is only the experience.
But can you see that is is only a label that someone is moving ?
It is only a thought definition of what actually is here and now..

Put something in your mouth, at that moment labelling will kick in and say "apple"..."sweet"..etc...
and try to ignore what it is in your mouth, even forget that you are eating.
Can you know what is in your mouth without a thought label ?
What is any "i am moving" without a thought label?
Events happen, deeds are done, but there is no individual doer thereof."
Buddha

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Tiger01
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Re: Help me see reality - Guide request : adilerten

Postby Tiger01 » Fri Feb 01, 2019 9:35 am

Put something in your mouth, at that moment labelling will kick in and say "apple"..."sweet"..etc...
and try to ignore what it is in your mouth, even forget that you are eating. Can you know what is in your mouth without a thought label ?
No. But moving is noticed... "I am moving" is what thought says.. okay, I'll be back

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Tiger01
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Re: Help me see reality - Guide request : adilerten

Postby Tiger01 » Sat Feb 02, 2019 11:12 am

I can clearly recognize the thought noise. But there is some thing else that I is referring to.
There are sensations on the stomach and on your face. It's clear that sensations and thoughts come and go.... and there is really no point in resisting them or anything...

But there is difference in how the sensations on the face is experienced from the sensation on the stomach.
There is something more behind the eyes or at the eyes... There is a difference in how these sensations are experienced..

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adilerten
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Re: Help me see reality - Guide request : adilerten

Postby adilerten » Sun Feb 03, 2019 12:46 pm

I can clearly recognize the thought noise. But there is some thing else that I is referring to.
There are sensations on the stomach and on your face. It's clear that sensations and thoughts come and go.... and there is really no point in resisting them or anything...

But there is difference in how the sensations on the face is experienced from the sensation on the stomach.
There is something more behind the eyes or at the eyes... There is a difference in how these sensations are experienced..

What says /identifies how sensations on the face and stomach are different Tiger ?
How do you know that there is something more behind the eyes ?
Events happen, deeds are done, but there is no individual doer thereof."
Buddha

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Tiger01
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Re: Help me see reality - Guide request : adilerten

Postby Tiger01 » Mon Feb 04, 2019 8:09 am

What says /identifies how sensations on the face and stomach are different Tiger ?
Thought. I used this for communication for my next point
How do you know that there is something more behind the eyes ?
When I close my eyes and just lie down for a while. Limitations of space vanish and there is no separation based on color...
There is still mental activity that labels sound as here and there... sensation as here and there...
When I stay for longer... the sensations around the head become dominant... Attention seems to retreat from all sounds and everything... Now mind tries to push or project thoughts somewhere.. either forehead or back... the sensations at the area where thoughts are projected becomes more intense... And as attention moves around, it feels that I am moving around... spiritually people used to say that is the witness.. but it just feels like me...
btw are the words awareness, perception synonymous?

Bcz perception exists... perception of something might not exist... but perception exists
is this me?

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adilerten
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Re: Help me see reality - Guide request : adilerten

Postby adilerten » Mon Feb 04, 2019 11:37 am

When you close your eyes the experience of color 'black' is no different to any other color ie darkness is just a colour, like any other, no different from light.

Is “I” a place where thoughts appear, or is “I” a thought that arises and subsides by itself?

(As long as you believe that there is a head / body you will go on describing locating things over that idea. We will look to this on the next post)
Events happen, deeds are done, but there is no individual doer thereof."
Buddha

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Tiger01
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Re: Help me see reality - Guide request : adilerten

Postby Tiger01 » Tue Feb 05, 2019 7:29 am

Is “I” a place where thoughts appear, or is “I” a thought that arises and subsides by itself?
It is a thought


But are you saying this structure of color that we call body is not personal? These thoughts that are going on are not personal?

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adilerten
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Re: Help me see reality - Guide request : adilerten

Postby adilerten » Tue Feb 05, 2019 11:31 am

Is “I” a place where thoughts appear, or is “I” a thought that arises and subsides by itself?
It is a thought


But are you saying this structure of color that we call body is not personal? These thoughts that are going on are not personal?
i am not saying anything Tiger :)

You will look and see,

Is the presence/being is personal or thoughts make it appear otherwise ?
Is there a “you” thinking or just thoughts flowing by themselves without a thinker?
If you say "they flow them selves" so for whom they appear ? Where is the person they appear TO ?
Events happen, deeds are done, but there is no individual doer thereof."
Buddha

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adilerten
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Re: Help me see reality - Guide request : adilerten

Postby adilerten » Tue Feb 05, 2019 11:36 am

and let's do this exercise again which we made at the beginning,

Press a finger down onto the top of the ‘head’. Notice what is actually present.

Is it really a head, or is it just a sensation labelled ‘pressure’ and a story ABOUT a head?

Do the same with a finger on each side of the head.

Is a head actually found, or are there just sensations again?
And is there anything between the pressure points, or is it just a thought that says there must be something between them?


Now SEE!
What is that "something more behind the eyes or at the eyes" ?
Is it an actual sensation ? What can you know for sure more than it is just a sensation
Events happen, deeds are done, but there is no individual doer thereof."
Buddha

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adilerten
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Re: Help me see reality - Guide request : adilerten

Postby adilerten » Tue Feb 05, 2019 12:08 pm

please take my question as:
Is the presence/being is personal or thoughts make it appear otherwise ?
Isnt the presence / being impersonal but thoughts make it appear otherwise (personal) ?
Events happen, deeds are done, but there is no individual doer thereof."
Buddha

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Tiger01
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Re: Help me see reality - Guide request : adilerten

Postby Tiger01 » Sun Feb 10, 2019 7:51 am

Morning Adil!
Is there a “you” thinking or just thoughts flowing by themselves without a thinker?
If you say "they flow them selves" so for whom they appear ? Where is the person they appear TO ?
Thoughts flowing..
They appear to attention or the movement that is illuminating various sensations, thoughts, sounds etc

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adilerten
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Re: Help me see reality - Guide request : adilerten

Postby adilerten » Mon Feb 11, 2019 11:48 am

Morning Adil!
Is there a “you” thinking or just thoughts flowing by themselves without a thinker?
If you say "they flow them selves" so for whom they appear ? Where is the person they appear TO ?
Thoughts flowing..
They appear to attention or the movement that is illuminating various sensations, thoughts, sounds etc
Hello Tiger,
I see that you miss some of the questions and can not focus on our process.
Is it temporary or you would like to freeze the process for a while ?
Events happen, deeds are done, but there is no individual doer thereof."
Buddha

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adilerten
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Re: Help me see reality - Guide request : adilerten

Postby adilerten » Mon Feb 11, 2019 12:27 pm

Morning Adil!
Is there a “you” thinking or just thoughts flowing by themselves without a thinker?
If you say "they flow them selves" so for whom they appear ? Where is the person they appear TO ?
Thoughts flowing..
They appear to attention or the movement that is illuminating various sensations, thoughts, sounds etc
Sure they do. Flowing for no one.
Events happen, deeds are done, but there is no individual doer thereof."
Buddha

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adilerten
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Re: Help me see reality - Guide request : adilerten

Postby adilerten » Tue Feb 12, 2019 1:02 pm

Dear Tiger,
How do you feel ?
Any changes in perceivement ?
Events happen, deeds are done, but there is no individual doer thereof."
Buddha

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Tiger01
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Re: Help me see reality - Guide request : adilerten

Postby Tiger01 » Tue Feb 12, 2019 1:17 pm

Hey Adil,

I came to a simple clarity that there is body, mind and attention/awareness.
I have seen the tyranny of illusion self and i don't really delude myself that often.
I can see the body does things based on conditioning and no amount of thought will change that.

Let's freeze this thread for a while and I'll come back when I have more questions.

Thank you for everything XO XO


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