Help me see reality - Guide request : adilerten

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Tiger01
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Help me see reality - Guide request : adilerten

Postby Tiger01 » Thu Dec 20, 2018 10:05 am

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
Something that is imagined is being treated as real
And bcz it's kinda real now, you need help in putting it back it's place

What are you looking for at LU?

There seems to be a doer, thinker and mainly an experiencer of all this.
99% of the day 'doing' and 'thinking' is happening. Sometimes with extra effort 'I' am doing things
In terms of experience, there seems to be a center to which experience is happening. Somewhere in the head.
If there is no self then what is this orientation of experience

What do you expect from a guided conversation?

Guidance and some nudge to look in the right direction.
There seems to be a doer, thinker and mainly an experiencer of all this.
99% of the day 'doing' and 'thinking' is happening. Sometimes with extra effort 'I' am doing things
In terms of experience, there seems to be a center to which experience is happening. Somewhere in the head.
If there is no self then what is this orientation of experience

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?

Random reading

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self? 10

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adilerten
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Re: Help me see reality - Guide request : adilerten

Postby adilerten » Thu Dec 20, 2018 10:35 am

Hello Tiger01,
My name is Adil
What would you like me to call you ? Tiger01 ?
Or a name would be better ?
Events happen, deeds are done, but there is no individual doer thereof."
Buddha

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adilerten
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Re: Help me see reality - Guide request : adilerten

Postby adilerten » Thu Dec 20, 2018 10:36 am

Before we start i would like to share some tips to make our
dialogue smooth and effective:

1. Please write as much as you can; I would advise you to
write at least once a day, in order to keep it fresh and buid a momentum.

2. Our main focus here is on seeing through the illusion of
what we call "I," "me," or "self." Please set aside all the teachings
you've learned from books, retreats, youtube, and so on, for the sake
of not bringing bias to what we'll do during our conversation.

3. Process will be mostly answering my questions, its best efficiant if you may answer them one
by one..Please be always 100% honest with your answers
Don't choose the "right." answer, from "what comes up" There's no one here to judge or critisise.
If you are stuck with any issue, we can always take a close look at it.

4-set aside all other spiritually related materials (books, videos etc.) so that you can completely focus on your own direct experience.

5-Here's a link that shows how to use the quote function: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fAToDNh9hQ[/

6- I would suggest you read "What Liberation Unleashed is not" from this link http://www.liberationunleashed.com/about/faq/#faq-1041

Clear ?
Events happen, deeds are done, but there is no individual doer thereof."
Buddha

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Tiger01
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Re: Help me see reality - Guide request : adilerten

Postby Tiger01 » Thu Dec 20, 2018 10:44 am

Hello Adil, I think "Tiger" is just fine.
1. Please write as much as you can; I would advise you to
write at least once a day, in order to keep it fresh and buid a momentum.
Okay, that would be great.
Our main focus here is on seeing through the illusion of
what we call "I," "me," or "self." Please set aside all the teachings
you've learned from books, retreats, youtube, and so on, for the sake
of not bringing bias to what we'll do during our conversation.
Is the enlightenment ebook/ app okay to use during our conversation?
set aside all other spiritually related materials (books, videos etc.) so that you can completely focus on your own direct experience.
Some random expectation are there based upon some spiritual stories. But I'll keep all stories aside and just look at the current experience.
And yes it is Clear :)

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adilerten
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Re: Help me see reality - Guide request : adilerten

Postby adilerten » Thu Dec 20, 2018 11:32 am


Is the enlightenment ebook/ app okay to use during our conversation?


it's better if you drop all kind of books/apps and focus our investigation Tiger
if you have meditations they are are ok, you can go on..

Thank you
:)
Events happen, deeds are done, but there is no individual doer thereof."
Buddha

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Tiger01
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Re: Help me see reality - Guide request : adilerten

Postby Tiger01 » Thu Dec 20, 2018 11:34 am

Okay. Done. :)

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adilerten
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Re: Help me see reality - Guide request : adilerten

Postby adilerten » Thu Dec 20, 2018 11:57 am

Yes Tiger..
We will be using term "looking" and direct/actual experience often here!
LOOKING is not done by thinking. It is plain looking.
The term ‘actual experience or direct experience is used to refer to experience ‘right now,’ and noticing the thought stories about them...
so ‘looking’ is just plain looking at what is here right now –
It is the raw experience of direct experiences colour, sound, smell, sensation, taste and the simple knowing of thought at face value. not the content of thought.
The key to this exploration is the careful LOOKING because it’s the act of actually LOOKING and not finding an “I” that brings about the realisation of there being no separate self.
Also by staying in the looking/direct experience your mind will be trained to see what is here and now instead of going to thinking..
Clear ?
Events happen, deeds are done, but there is no individual doer thereof."
Buddha

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Tiger01
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Re: Help me see reality - Guide request : adilerten

Postby Tiger01 » Thu Dec 20, 2018 12:05 pm

Yes that's clear.

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adilerten
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Re: Help me see reality - Guide request : adilerten

Postby adilerten » Thu Dec 20, 2018 12:09 pm

Let's make a different start from your statements

You said;
there seems to be a center to which experience is happening. Somewhere in the head

First let’s examine the solidity of the head.

Press a finger down onto the top of the ‘head’. Notice what is actually present.
Is it a head, or is it just a sensation labelled ‘pressure’ and a story ABOUT a head?

Do the same with a finger on each side of the head.
Is a head actually found, or are there just sensations again?
And is there anything between the pressure points, or is it just a thought that says there must be something between them?

Can an INHERENT SEE-ER be/a Tiger be found in sensations ?
Would anything that is suggested as the see-er, be anything other than a concept/idea/thought ?
Events happen, deeds are done, but there is no individual doer thereof."
Buddha

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Tiger01
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Re: Help me see reality - Guide request : adilerten

Postby Tiger01 » Thu Dec 20, 2018 1:01 pm

Is a head actually found, or are there just sensations again?
just an experience that is labelled as "pressure "
thoughts going .. ahhh, too much pressure!
no head
And is there anything between the pressure points, or is it just a thought that says there must be something between them?
Nothing in direct experience
Can an INHERENT SEE-ER be/a Tiger be found in sensations ?
Would anything that is suggested as the see-er, be anything other than a concept/idea/thought ?
There is no inherent see-er of sensations
at the same time there is attention or subtle noticing of sensations, like flashlight being flashed on them

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adilerten
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Re: Help me see reality - Guide request : adilerten

Postby adilerten » Thu Dec 20, 2018 1:15 pm

Is a head actually found, or are there just sensations again?
just an experience that is labelled as "pressure "
thoughts going .. ahhh, too much pressure!
no head
And is there anything between the pressure points, or is it just a thought that says there must be something between them?
Nothing in direct experience
Can an INHERENT SEE-ER be/a Tiger be found in sensations ?
Would anything that is suggested as the see-er, be anything other than a concept/idea/thought ?
There is no inherent see-er of sensations
at the same time there is attention or subtle noticing of sensations, like flashlight being flashed on them
Brilliant looking..Let's go on..
Events happen, deeds are done, but there is no individual doer thereof."
Buddha

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adilerten
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Re: Help me see reality - Guide request : adilerten

Postby adilerten » Thu Dec 20, 2018 1:22 pm

Let's examine thoughts, how they label the direct experiences and actual experience more..

Image

When looking at this orange can you see there's only colors;
and a thought saying ‘orange’; and maybe a thought saying "I'm looking at an orange." What is known for sure?
Color is known and thoughts are known.

What about the content of thoughts, what they describe?
Actual experience does not refer to thoughts ABOUT something…because that is only just more thought. Actual experience is sound, thought, color, smell, taste, sensation.

Is there really an ‘orange’ here, or only color and a thought ABOUT ‘apple’?

Can ‘orange’ be found in actual experience?
Events happen, deeds are done, but there is no individual doer thereof."
Buddha

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adilerten
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Re: Help me see reality - Guide request : adilerten

Postby adilerten » Thu Dec 20, 2018 1:23 pm

sorry
question is
Is there really an ‘orange’ here, or only color and a thought ABOUT ‘orange’?
Events happen, deeds are done, but there is no individual doer thereof."
Buddha

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Tiger01
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Re: Help me see reality - Guide request : adilerten

Postby Tiger01 » Thu Dec 20, 2018 2:28 pm

Is there really an ‘orange’ here, or only color and a thought ABOUT ‘orange’

Can ‘orange’ be found in actual experience?

Well orange is what we call this in English.
"Orange" literally isn't here.
But isn't color or thought also a thought/label like orange!

Anyhow bcz we are discribing direct experience so there is color + thoughts.

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adilerten
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Re: Help me see reality - Guide request : adilerten

Postby adilerten » Thu Dec 20, 2018 2:56 pm

Is there really an ‘orange’ here, or only color and a thought ABOUT ‘orange’

Can ‘orange’ be found in actual experience?

Well orange is what we call this in English.
"Orange" literally isn't here.
But isn't color or thought also a thought/label like orange!

Anyhow bcz we are discribing direct experience so there is color + thoughts.
Yes, sure..
Orange is a label given to what is..
Even color is label.
It just is.
these thoughts are known, what they talk ABOUT can't be found in actual experience.

This is what is meant by ‘looking in actual experience ‘. What you know for sure, and, is always here.

Also when you taste the orange, taste labelled ‘orange’ is known
color labelled ‘orange’ is known sensation labelled ‘orange’ is known (when orange is touched)
Smell labelled ‘orange’ is known
Thought about/of an ‘orange’ is known
However, an orange actually cannot be known.

Here's an exercise that I would like you to try as many times throughout the day as you can. Label daily activities simply colour/image, sound, smell, taste, sensation, thought.

So for example, when having breakfast, become aware of:

Seeing a cup, simply= image/colour
Smelling coffee, simply = smell,
Feeling the warmth of the coffee cup, simply = sensation.
Tasting the coffee, simply = taste
Hearing the spoon stirring the coffee, simply = sound
Thought about drinking the coffee, simply = thought.

Just break down daily activities into these categories (which are all actual experience) and report back how you go and report please some examples that you do..
Events happen, deeds are done, but there is no individual doer thereof."
Buddha


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