End of Story

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Lankylisa
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Re: End of Story

Postby Lankylisa » Tue Jan 22, 2019 8:44 pm

A thought arises and collates all these different experiences (remembers them) and in order to house them all
imagines a linear of time in which can place all these objects and with that creates the idea of time. But actually
experience does not appear in linear time. All experience appears now
.

Looking reveals that all thinking happens NOW. Thoughts create a past and a future. Thinking, on the other hand, cannot conceive all its contents taking place NOW. Thinking shows an image of 'me' at three years old. Thinking now cannot make sense of the image of 'me' at three years old happening now when looking at the body labeled me now indicates an older body. Thinking says... looking without thought.....looking without thinking and thereby eliminating time is an illusion and to be avoided....reality (or understanding) evaporates without thinking and thereby is dangerous

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Lankylisa
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Re: End of Story

Postby Lankylisa » Tue Jan 22, 2019 9:06 pm

What is memory exactly? What is the memory ‘made of’? WHEN does the memory appear?
Memory is more thinking happening. Memory is made of more thinking. Memory appears Now.
What is the exact difference between a ‘general’ thought and a ‘memory’ thought?
Memory thought does not correspond with the sensory experience of what is being seen, heard, felt, and touched by the body simultaneously. Whereas general thought agrees with the sensory experience happening.
How is it known EXACTLY that a ‘memory’ thought refers to something that has happened?

It cannot be known that a memory thought refers to something that has happened. rather it appears to be a memory when thinking creates two different experiences and compares thereby creating a sense of time or event happening other than now.
Then, look at a thought about the future. What is the future thought ‘made of’?
Future thought is made up of thinking happening.
WHEN does the future thought appear? ,What is the exact difference between a ‘general’ thought and a ‘future’ thought? How is it known EXACTLY that a ‘future’ thought refers to something that will happen?
Future thought appears now. Future thought is thinking now about situation that thought says is not happening now that looking reveals is only more thinking happening. Thinking not looking says that a 'future' thought refers to something that will happen.
let’s compare a thought about past and a thought about the future. What is the EXACT difference between the thoughts about past and future? If there is difference and how is that difference is known exactly?
Thoughts about the past and the future are all thoughts happening. In this sense there is no real difference. Thinking labels them as thoughts about the past and thoughts about the future by comparing thoughts made of incoming sensory data of what is happening outside the body to images created by thought.

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adilerten
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Re: End of Story

Postby adilerten » Wed Jan 23, 2019 12:23 pm

What is memory exactly? What is the memory ‘made of’? WHEN does the memory appear?
Memory is more thinking happening. Memory is made of more thinking. Memory appears Now.
What is the exact difference between a ‘general’ thought and a ‘memory’ thought?
Memory thought does not correspond with the sensory experience of what is being seen, heard, felt, and touched by the body simultaneously. Whereas general thought agrees with the sensory experience happening.
How is it known EXACTLY that a ‘memory’ thought refers to something that has happened?

It cannot be known that a memory thought refers to something that has happened. rather it appears to be a memory when thinking creates two different experiences and compares thereby creating a sense of time or event happening other than now.
Then, look at a thought about the future. What is the future thought ‘made of’?
Future thought is made up of thinking happening.
WHEN does the future thought appear? ,What is the exact difference between a ‘general’ thought and a ‘future’ thought? How is it known EXACTLY that a ‘future’ thought refers to something that will happen?
Future thought appears now. Future thought is thinking now about situation that thought says is not happening now that looking reveals is only more thinking happening. Thinking not looking says that a 'future' thought refers to something that will happen.
let’s compare a thought about past and a thought about the future. What is the EXACT difference between the thoughts about past and future? If there is difference and how is that difference is known exactly?
Thoughts about the past and the future are all thoughts happening. In this sense there is no real difference. Thinking labels them as thoughts about the past and thoughts about the future by comparing thoughts made of incoming sensory data of what is happening outside the body to images created by thought.
so can you see both future/past/memory are simply thought right ?
Events happen, deeds are done, but there is no individual doer thereof."
Buddha

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adilerten
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Re: End of Story

Postby adilerten » Wed Jan 23, 2019 12:26 pm

A thought arises and collates all these different experiences (remembers them) and in order to house them all
imagines a linear of time in which can place all these objects and with that creates the idea of time. But actually
experience does not appear in linear time. All experience appears now
.

Looking reveals that all thinking happens NOW. Thoughts create a past and a future. Thinking, on the other hand, cannot conceive all its contents taking place NOW. Thinking shows an image of 'me' at three years old. Thinking now cannot make sense of the image of 'me' at three years old happening now when looking at the body labeled me now indicates an older body. Thinking says... looking without thought.....looking without thinking and thereby eliminating time is an illusion and to be avoided....reality (or understanding) evaporates without thinking and thereby is dangerous

How can reality evaporate without thinking and why it is dangerous ?

You look and see that these are just colors, these are just sensations.. How can it be dangerous ?

:)
Events happen, deeds are done, but there is no individual doer thereof."
Buddha

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adilerten
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Re: End of Story

Postby adilerten » Wed Jan 23, 2019 12:31 pm

after answering my blue marked questions above posts , let's make an exercise which will help us bringing our attenion what is real / here & now..

Here's an exercise that I would like you to try as many times throughout the day as you can. Label daily activities simply colour/image, sound, smell, taste, sensation, thought.

So for example, when having breakfast, become aware of:

Seeing a cup, simply= image/colour
Smelling coffee, simply = smell,
Feeling the warmth of the coffee cup, simply = sensation.
Tasting the coffee, simply = taste
Hearing the spoon stirring the coffee, simply = sound
Thought about drinking the coffee, simply = thought.

Just break down daily activities into these categories (which are all actual experience) and please bring me some more examples from the day like i did with the coffee sample above..

Sending love
Events happen, deeds are done, but there is no individual doer thereof."
Buddha

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Lankylisa
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Re: End of Story

Postby Lankylisa » Thu Jan 24, 2019 4:03 am

so can you see both future/past/memory are simply thought right ?
Right
How can reality evaporate without thinking and why it is dangerous?
It is impossible for reality to evaporate but understanding of reality will evaporate. Without labeling and placing meaning on sensory data (sound, sights, tastes, smells, sensations) there is only experience and little if any meaning. I’m projecting and making assumptions instead of looking with acceptance, noting the difference between direct experience/reality and the labels and understanding we pile on top of experience implies/reveals there is awareness and happenings with no particular destined outcome. Seems everything is meaningless resulting in fear and discomfort happening.
You look and see that these are just colors, these are just sensations. How can it be dangerous ?
The looking itself is not dangerous but the discoveries and realizations that come from looking FEEL uncomfortable. Dangerous to the degree that living seems pointless without ability to influence happenings and discover greater meaning to what is happening.

When having lunch, became aware of:
Seeing a spinach and meat, simply= image/colour
Thought about what to have for dinner, simply=thought
Smelling vegetable, simply = smell
Feeling the pressure of jaw chewing, simply = sensation.
Thought about how rare it is for thought to be in-the-moment rather than future, simply = thought.
Tasting the meat and seasoning, simply = taste
Hearing the fork hit the glass bowl, simply = sound
Hearing sound machine, simply = sound
Feeling texture of meat against tongue, simply = sensation
Thought about next task on ‘to do’ list, simply = thought.
Thought about how thinking distracts from seeing and hearing, simply = thought

Adil, I hope to share a few more looking examples with you tomorrow but wished to get you some initial response.

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adilerten
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Re: End of Story

Postby adilerten » Thu Jan 24, 2019 12:23 pm

so can you see both future/past/memory are simply thought right ?
Right


That's good :)

Seems everything is meaningless resulting in fear and discomfort happening.


Yes. Some call it wonderful gorgeous meaninglessness :)
Nothing has any meaning.
Only thought commentary saying this and that which is also blablabla.


You look and see that these are just colors, these are just sensations. How can it be dangerous ?
The looking itself is not dangerous but the discoveries and realizations that come from looking FEEL uncomfortable. Dangerous to the degree that living seems pointless without ability to influence happenings and discover greater meaning to what is happening.


I hear you. For mind (other thoughts) it might feel uncomfortable.
But also when you look at that "feeling of uncomfort" you will only find some sensations which is again colored by thought.
But what is the alternative for living ? Life will go on lifing without a doer or a greater meaning, purpose or responsibility.
Which might feel peaceful also :)

When having lunch, became aware of:
Seeing a spinach and meat, simply= image/colour
Thought about what to have for dinner, simply=thought
Smelling vegetable, simply = smell
Feeling the pressure of jaw chewing, simply = sensation.
Thought about how rare it is for thought to be in-the-moment rather than future, simply = thought.
Tasting the meat and seasoning, simply = taste
Hearing the fork hit the glass bowl, simply = sound
Hearing sound machine, simply = sound
Feeling texture of meat against tongue, simply = sensation
Thought about next task on ‘to do’ list, simply = thought.
Thought about how thinking distracts from seeing and hearing, simply = thought

Adil, I hope to share a few more looking examples with you tomorrow but wished to get you some initial response.


Yes Lisa. Wonderful. Go on bringing some more samples please.
This will train your mind to LOOKING!
Events happen, deeds are done, but there is no individual doer thereof."
Buddha

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adilerten
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Re: End of Story

Postby adilerten » Thu Jan 24, 2019 12:28 pm

meanwhile let's also look more how decision is made without a control controller..

First let's look to this idea of decision and control,
Can you please do this simple exercise and report what comes

1. Place both hands on a table in front of you, palms down. 2. When you have done that, rest for a moment and then raise one hand in the air but not the other.

Don't go to thoughts, examine your direct experience. Do this as many times as you like, and each time inquire:-

What is it exactly that is choosing which hand to raise? Why that hand but not the other ?
Can you find a separate individual or anything that is doing the choosing?
What is it that is controlling the hand?
Can a ‘controller’ of any description be located?
Can anything be found that makes the hand move?
How is the decision made?
Events happen, deeds are done, but there is no individual doer thereof."
Buddha

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Lankylisa
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Re: End of Story

Postby Lankylisa » Fri Jan 25, 2019 7:38 am

1. Place both hands on a table in front of you, palms down. 2. When you have done that, rest for a moment and then raise one hand in the air but not the other.

Don't go to thoughts, examine your direct experience. Do this as many times as you like, and each time inquire:-

What is it exactly that is choosing which hand to raise? Why that hand but not the other ?
Thinking says that the brain in choosing which hand to raise. No idea why that hand and not the other. Not all thinking is conscious.
Can you find a separate individual or anything that is doing the choosing?
Cannot find anything that is doing the choosing
What is it that is controlling the hand?
chemical messages from brain to different muscles in the body according to what been taught. "I" and not controlling/deciding to raise the hand.
Can a ‘controller’ of any description be located?
No
Can anything be found that makes the hand move?
No
How is the decision made?
How the decision is made cannot be seen

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Lankylisa
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Re: End of Story

Postby Lankylisa » Fri Jan 25, 2019 7:46 am

Adil, here is another example of looking.

Seeing a table, simply= image/colour
Seeing fish tank, simply = image/color
Thought about how quickly the mind labels colors and shapes, simply=thought

Feeling the hand grip thermos, simply = sensation.
Thought about tv volume, simply = thought.
Hearing voices on television, simply = sound
Tasting wet hot tea, simply =taste
Hearing bubbles of fish tank, simply = sound

Feeling smooth tin of cup against hand, simply = sensation
Thought about avoiding wasting time, simply = thought.
Feeling couch pressed against legs, simply = sensation
Seeing tv remote, simply=image/color

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adilerten
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Re: End of Story

Postby adilerten » Fri Jan 25, 2019 1:45 pm

1. Place both hands on a table in front of you, palms down. 2. When you have done that, rest for a moment and then raise one hand in the air but not the other.

Don't go to thoughts, examine your direct experience. Do this as many times as you like, and each time inquire:-

What is it exactly that is choosing which hand to raise? Why that hand but not the other ?
Thinking says that the brain in choosing which hand to raise. No idea why that hand and not the other. Not all thinking is conscious.
Can you find a separate individual or anything that is doing the choosing?
Cannot find anything that is doing the choosing
What is it that is controlling the hand?
chemical messages from brain to different muscles in the body according to what been taught. "I" and not controlling/deciding to raise the hand.
Can a ‘controller’ of any description be located?
No
Can anything be found that makes the hand move?
No
How is the decision made?
How the decision is made cannot be seen
Good looking Lisa :)
What is it that is controlling the hand?
chemical messages from brain to different muscles in the body according to what been taught. "I" and not controlling/deciding to raise the hand.

What is the Actual Experience of chemical messages from brain ?
What is the Actual Experience of a brain ?
How do you know these without thinking ?
Events happen, deeds are done, but there is no individual doer thereof."
Buddha

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adilerten
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Re: End of Story

Postby adilerten » Fri Jan 25, 2019 1:47 pm

let's look at the idea of seperation now,
Here is a link to a clock

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L21br2DSCSg

Allow your eyes to close gently.

Listen to the sound. “Tick tock tick tock tick tock tick tock”

Focus on the tick tock. Tune to the sound itself. IGNORE any explanatory thoughts about what must be creating the sound.

Try to find the clock.

1. Going just by the tick tock sound, do you find a clock present?
2. Is there any direct/actual experience of a clock in the sound?
3. Does the sound come self-labelled as originating from the clock?
4. Do you find a clock hidden n the sound?
5. Do you find a clock beyond the sound?
6. In your direct/actual experience of the sound, do you find any evidence that the sound is caused by a clock?

Allow your eyes to open.

Were you able to establish that in your direct/actual experience of the tick tock sound, that there was a clock?

Were you able to find a division between hearing and sound?
Were you able to establish where hearing ended and sound begin, or was there just pure experience labelled as sound?

For a sound to be ‘known’ then there must be a ‘knowing’ (experience) of sound!
Can a dividing line be found between the ‘knowing’ (experience) of the sound and the sound (known) itself? Or is there only ‘knowing known’?
Events happen, deeds are done, but there is no individual doer thereof."
Buddha

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Lankylisa
Posts: 61
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2018 10:15 am

Re: End of Story

Postby Lankylisa » Sat Jan 26, 2019 12:53 am

What is the Actual Experience of chemical messages from brain ?
NO AE
What is the Actual Experience of a brain ?
No AE, just thinking labeled brain
How do you know these without thinking ?
Cannot know these without thinking
Going just by the tick tock sound, do you find a clock present?
No
2. Is there any direct/actual experience of a clock in the sound?
There is no AE of a clock
Does the sound come self-labelled as originating from the clock?
No the sound does not come self-labeled
Do you find a clock hidden n the sound?
No
Do you find a clock beyond the sound?
No
n your direct/actual experience of the sound, do you find any evidence that the sound is caused by a clock?
No
Were you able to establish that in your direct/actual experience of the tick tock sound, that there was a clock?
heard the tick tock happening but no clock

Were you able to find a division between hearing and sound?
Cannot locate a division between hearing and sound
Were you able to establish where hearing ended and sound begin, or was there just pure experience labelled und?
hearing and sound are one. pure experience labeled as sound.
For a sound to be ‘known’ then there must be a ‘knowing’ (experience) of sound!
Correct
Can a dividing line be found between the ‘knowing’ (experience) of the sound and the sound (known) itself? Or is there only ‘knowing known’?
Hmmm, this is more difficult to see. There is only knowing know! Thinking wants to separate them.

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adilerten
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Re: End of Story

Postby adilerten » Mon Jan 28, 2019 10:39 am

What is the Actual Experience of chemical messages from brain ?
NO AE
What is the Actual Experience of a brain ?
No AE, just thinking labeled brain
How do you know these without thinking ?
Cannot know these without thinking
Going just by the tick tock sound, do you find a clock present?
No
2. Is there any direct/actual experience of a clock in the sound?
There is no AE of a clock
Does the sound come self-labelled as originating from the clock?
No the sound does not come self-labeled
Do you find a clock hidden n the sound?
No
Do you find a clock beyond the sound?
No
n your direct/actual experience of the sound, do you find any evidence that the sound is caused by a clock?
No
Were you able to establish that in your direct/actual experience of the tick tock sound, that there was a clock?
heard the tick tock happening but no clock

Were you able to find a division between hearing and sound?
Cannot locate a division between hearing and sound
Were you able to establish where hearing ended and sound begin, or was there just pure experience labelled und?
hearing and sound are one. pure experience labeled as sound.
For a sound to be ‘known’ then there must be a ‘knowing’ (experience) of sound!
Correct
Can a dividing line be found between the ‘knowing’ (experience) of the sound and the sound (known) itself? Or is there only ‘knowing known’?
Hmmm, this is more difficult to see. There is only knowing know! Thinking wants to separate them.

Sorry for the late answer Lisa but it supposed to be that way...
Thank you for your good looking

What is the Actual Experience of chemical messages from brain ?NO AE
What is the Actual Experience of a brain ? No AE, just thinking labeled brain


Brain is only thought. Actual experience of a thought.
As,
The label ‘body’ is the Actual Experience of thought and not the AE of a body
The sensation labelled ‘body’ is the AE of sensation and not the AE of a body
The colours (image) labelled ‘body’ is the AE of colours and not the AE of a body
The smells labelled ‘body smells’ is the AE of smell and is not the AE of a body
The sounds labelled as ‘body sounds’ is the AE of sound and not the AE of a body
Events happen, deeds are done, but there is no individual doer thereof."
Buddha

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adilerten
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Joined: Mon Jan 11, 2016 5:33 pm

Re: End of Story

Postby adilerten » Mon Jan 28, 2019 10:46 am

Can you tell me how you feel until here Lisa ?
What are the changes ?
DO you have questions until here ?
Events happen, deeds are done, but there is no individual doer thereof."
Buddha


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