Butterflies or Roses?

This is a read-only part of the forum. All threads where seeing happens are stored here and come from this forum, the Facebook guiding area and various LU blogs. The complete list, sorted by guide, contains all links. The archives include threads of those that came to LU already seeing as well.
User avatar
Butterfly06
Posts: 16
Joined: Mon Oct 01, 2018 6:27 am

Butterflies or Roses?

Postby Butterfly06 » Mon Oct 01, 2018 6:29 am

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
There is, in fact, no separate self. What I know as me is just a story that is being built by thoughts. I understand that LU will guide me through my process of seeing it for myself. Right now, I grasp the concept and have had glimpses of it, but the illusion of a separate self who is in control is still strong.

What are you looking for at LU?
I am looking for guidance and someone that will help me through my process by asking the right questions. I feel that, by myself, the more I read, the more questions I have. I would like to see it for myself. I have read people’s experiences. I am now looking for my own. I am not looking for a miracle, for life to be perfect, for all to change. I am looking for guidance while I look for myself and see it.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?

As I said, someone that will ask me the questions that will get me over the resistance and on with my own process. That will help me look. That will help me see. But that won’t do it for me. That will encourage me to continue on the journey when fear kicks in. Someone I could talk to that won’t judge, won’t say what is right or wrong but will help me see for what it is.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?

I’ve done retreats. I’ve participated in groups. I’ve read books. I meditate. I breath. I do yoga. I have a wonderful husband who has been on his seeking journey for years now - we talk, we exchange, we learn from each other. He also pushes me when I get cold feet. I feel that I am read to take my journey to the next stage. Ilona’s book has been an eye opener.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self? 10

User avatar
Seamist
Posts: 2074
Joined: Wed Aug 16, 2017 3:21 am
Location: Shropshire, UK

Re: Butterflies or Roses?

Postby Seamist » Fri Oct 05, 2018 9:24 pm

Hi
I can guide you if you'd like that.
I do ask that those being guided commit to posting AT LEAST ONCE A DAY. Are you up for that?
Sioned

User avatar
Butterfly06
Posts: 16
Joined: Mon Oct 01, 2018 6:27 am

Re: Butterflies or Roses?

Postby Butterfly06 » Sat Oct 06, 2018 3:09 am

Hi Sioned,
Thanks for replying back and for offering to guide me. I am committed to the process and posting once a day, however, I am taking a few days off next week - from Oct 11 to 15. I’m going camping and I’m afraid I won’t have Internet access and not sure about my phone working. Is it ok if we take a break those days? Please, let me know.
G

User avatar
Seamist
Posts: 2074
Joined: Wed Aug 16, 2017 3:21 am
Location: Shropshire, UK

Re: Butterflies or Roses?

Postby Seamist » Sat Oct 06, 2018 7:36 am

That sounds fine to me. Why don't we start once you're back? That might be simplest.

User avatar
Butterfly06
Posts: 16
Joined: Mon Oct 01, 2018 6:27 am

Re: Butterflies or Roses?

Postby Butterfly06 » Sat Oct 06, 2018 7:36 pm

Hi Sioned,
Sure, we can start when I am back or start now. I have a lot of quiet time this week since my husband is traveling. So if there is anything I can get going with, please let me know.
Thank you!
G

User avatar
Seamist
Posts: 2074
Joined: Wed Aug 16, 2017 3:21 am
Location: Shropshire, UK

Re: Butterflies or Roses?

Postby Seamist » Sat Oct 06, 2018 10:50 pm

Ok, let's start now.
( that I'm just on my way to bed!)
Tell me about any hours and fears about doing this work....
what would you like me to call you?
And where are you? It's helpful to me know if we're in different time zones.
XX
Sioned

User avatar
Butterfly06
Posts: 16
Joined: Mon Oct 01, 2018 6:27 am

Re: Butterflies or Roses?

Postby Butterfly06 » Sun Oct 07, 2018 12:13 am

Ok, let’s do it!
what would you like me to call you?
And where are you? It's helpful to me know if we're in different time zones.
You can call me G. I live in the US - West Coast. Pacific Time zone.
Tell me about any hours and fears about doing this work...
.

Fears... Well, first thing that comes to mind is fear of my whole life changing. If I look deeper, fear of seeing that all this is not really my doing, meaning that I have no say in how this life is unfolding. It is scary. Not having control. At the same time, it is pretty obvious!

I am also afraid of the daily routine - work, family, friends. How will it affect that? How to handle it? Even now, at work, with all the deadlines, things that need to get done, the boss asking for stuff, work being delivered, meetings happening, bla,bla,bla... I look at it and feel that it will all get done, no matter what. But then I get dragged back to the thinking patterns, and back at thinking I have some say in it. That I actually do something and because of that, I am valued.

And I am afraid that I will look and won’t see it. That I will continue to be stuck - knowing there is no self but not actually fully seeing it. That the thinking will get the better of me. That I won’t be achieving my full potential. That I will simply give up.

Hours? When will I be available? Well, I have the weekends and evenings to do the work.

Looking forward thinking hearing back from you. I know it will take a while as we are, for sure, in the different time zones.

Thanks again
G

User avatar
Seamist
Posts: 2074
Joined: Wed Aug 16, 2017 3:21 am
Location: Shropshire, UK

Re: Butterflies or Roses?

Postby Seamist » Sun Oct 07, 2018 7:50 am

Sorry, I meant HOPES and fears xx

User avatar
Butterfly06
Posts: 16
Joined: Mon Oct 01, 2018 6:27 am

Re: Butterflies or Roses?

Postby Butterfly06 » Sun Oct 07, 2018 5:38 pm

Hopes... honestly, I don’t expect to see fireworks, to all of a sudden get rid of all “problems”, to find peace and bliss. I don’t expect my life to suddenly change or to find an unexpected urge to move to Tibet. I don’t expect to become enlightened - and start speaking with a nice, paused, beautiful voice. There is no me. How can I expect something to change for me?

I hope to look and see. I understand there is not me, but I want to see it.

I hope this fear of taking the next step goes away - if I see it for what it is.

I hope resistance to moving forward goes away - if I see it for what it is.

I’m tired. I feel stuck.

G

User avatar
Seamist
Posts: 2074
Joined: Wed Aug 16, 2017 3:21 am
Location: Shropshire, UK

Re: Butterflies or Roses?

Postby Seamist » Sun Oct 07, 2018 7:07 pm

Hi G,
Good, thoughtful answers. I'm surprised that you say you "feel stuck". You seem anything but to me. I'll just comment ona few of the things you've said.
Fears... Well, first thing that comes to mind is fear of my whole life changing. If I look deeper, fear of seeing that all this is not really my doing, meaning that I have no say in how this life is unfolding. It is scary. Not having control
can relate to that - fear was a biggie for me. Don't forget, though, that all you'll be doing is seeing through an illusion.
Notice, that fear is a protection mechanism. The fear itself is like a door, it holds you from looking behind the door. But it's just fear. It’s ok for it to be here, it is only doing its job. Just let it be there, acknowledge its presence with respect and gratitude, check where it feels physically in the body. Notice sensation.

What is fear itself?
What is it protecting?
What needs to be protected?
What is that feels threatened?

Ask it to reveal why it’s here, what it is trying to tell you, ask the fear to share its wisdom.
If there is no self, then there is nothing that needs to be protected, right?
Honor the feeling. Bow to it, thank it for doing its job. Notice, it is here to protect, it's a friend. Fer is really love in disguise. It is only showing you where to look, the dark areas.

Now, look behind it.
Is there anything behind the fear?
if so, what? And what is behind that?
LET ME KNOW WHAT YOU FIND>

And I am afraid that I will look and won’t see it. That I will continue to be stuck - knowing there is no self but not actually fully seeing it. That the thinking will get the better of me. That I won’t be achieving my full potential. That I will simply give up
It's not actually difficult - anyone who makes the effort can "get it" - it just requires some consistency and a willingness to look with openness and honesty. There's no magic to it. And no special abilities are necessary.
I hope to look and see. I understand there is not me, but I want to see it.
yes, that resonated with me.

I look forward to hearing back from you
xx Sioned

User avatar
Butterfly06
Posts: 16
Joined: Mon Oct 01, 2018 6:27 am

Re: Butterflies or Roses?

Postby Butterfly06 » Mon Oct 08, 2018 1:59 am

Ok, here it goes. This was intense and then it became fun!
Notice, that fear is a protection mechanism. The fear itself is like a door, it holds you from looking behind the door. But it's just fear. It’s ok for it to be here, it is only doing its job. Just let it be there, acknowledge its presence with respect and gratitude, check where it feels physically in the body. Notice sensation
.

I noticed it and I saw it. I could almost touch it. But then I realized it is really a sensation that was triggered by a thought, a rather strong sensation, that often times makes me stop, forget my words and feel paralyzed. But then seeing it as “just fear” makes it less powerful. It was like seeing a shadow that looks really big but then when you come closer you see that is really just a squirrel.

I could feel it in my stomach and then in my throat.
What is fear itself?
What is it protecting?
What needs to be protected?
What is that feels threatened?
Well, fear is just this sensation that appears triggered by a thought or something. But it actually also triggers other thoughts too. It seems to get its energy from those other thoughts and it starts getting bigger and overwhelms everything.

It is protecting this notion of self, it is protecting me, it is protecting this character called G. When I talk to it, it is clear that it is there proctecting this notion of a perfect life this character lives. It is protecting the sense of security. It is protecting all that the character identifies with: family, job, role in the society. It is protecting the “good girl”. The more it is there, the more there is need for it. That said, it is really just protecting and propagating the illusion of self.

Nothing needs to be protected. There is no one to protect. There is also no one there to feel frightened, afraid. That is so simple! Fear is just that. Sensation then thought then more sensation. There is nothing special about it.

What feels threatened is the illusion of a separate self. It is the thought that G will lose control. As if she ever was in control! What feels threatened is exactly the same as what fears is protecting. It’s this character, this separate self and the illusion there is someone in control.
Ask it to reveal why it’s here, what it is trying to tell you, ask the fear to share its wisdom. If there is no self, then there is nothing that needs to be protected, right?
Honor the feeling. Bow to it, thank it for doing its job. Notice, it is here to protect, it's a friend. Fer is really love in disguise. It is only showing you where to look, the dark areas.
Interesting that when I ask fear why it is here, it comes up with a story that it has always been here and that it is a partner to G. That is actually co-author of this character’s life. It runs deep. But then again, seeing it for what it is makes his whole speech seem so shallow - just another thought. Meaningless.

Fear, thank you so much, but there is no one here to be protected and no one to feel frightened.
Now, look behind it.
Is there anything behind the fear?
if so, what? And what is behind that?
LET ME KNOW WHAT YOU FIND>
There is nothing behind it, in front of it, to its side. It is just fear. It can grow big and cloud everything though. It can cause a string of thoughts, one after the other, and it can create paralysis or make me run. But seeing it for what it is clears the smoke. Curious to see how it will appear from now on.

Thank you!

User avatar
Seamist
Posts: 2074
Joined: Wed Aug 16, 2017 3:21 am
Location: Shropshire, UK

Re: Butterflies or Roses?

Postby Seamist » Mon Oct 08, 2018 9:41 am

Hi G,
This was intense and then it became fun!
Great!
But then I realized it is really a sensation that was triggered by a though
Fantastic noticing, and absolutely right fear is indeed just a thought!: well done!
It was like seeing a shadow that looks really big but then when you come closer you see that is really just a squirrel.
and I loved this description. Fab!
Nothing needs to be protected. There is no one to protect. There is also no one there to feel frightened, afraid. That is so simple! Fear is just that. Sensation then thought then more sensation. There is nothing special about it.
What feels threatened is the illusion of a separate self
All great looking. You've done really well here, I'm really touched to read it, and excited for you.
In fact, all of your last reply is great, and I could easily quote almost all of it.

As you observe, you may experience fear again, but I think you've so much got its measure now, that it won't be the same.

Read the following aloud slowly, three times:
There is no separate self at all in reality. No agent that is in charge, no manager, no watcher, no owner of life; all there is is life flowing freely as one movement.
What's your response?

xx

User avatar
Butterfly06
Posts: 16
Joined: Mon Oct 01, 2018 6:27 am

Re: Butterflies or Roses?

Postby Butterfly06 » Tue Oct 09, 2018 2:49 am

Hi Sioned,

Yes, yesterday was a very revealing day. To be able to look at fear (and the sensations caused by those thoughts) as simply that: thoughts and sensations. So liberating!

Now to your question:
There is no separate self at all in reality. No agent that is in charge, no manager, no watcher, no owner of life; all there is is life flowing freely as one movement.
What's your response?
My response is: how can It be different? How could I possibly have thought differently all this time? It is so obvious and right in front of my face. No owner of life. Duh! When I was saying the statement out loud, it was as if I had written those words, as if they were coming out of my mouth right then and there. They rang so true, so natural.

Throughout the day today that was all I could see: life flowing. Yes, of course, there were meetings at work, presentations to finish, brief documents to develop... but it was all part of life... flowing. As is this character, G. She doesn’t own anything nor is in charge. No one is. No separate self out there managing things. So true! So simple! So easy!

G.

User avatar
Seamist
Posts: 2074
Joined: Wed Aug 16, 2017 3:21 am
Location: Shropshire, UK

Re: Butterflies or Roses?

Postby Seamist » Tue Oct 09, 2018 8:03 am

How are you doing emotionally?

User avatar
Butterfly06
Posts: 16
Joined: Mon Oct 01, 2018 6:27 am

Re: Butterflies or Roses?

Postby Butterfly06 » Wed Oct 10, 2018 2:29 am

Emotionally, I feel calm and accepting. As if things make much more sense, however there is not an anxiety attached to it. There is not an urge to go do something, to think about it. There is calmness and acceptance instead.

I feel open. And in that sense, curious. Again, not as if I need to go investigate, find out about things, do something or take action. There is a new found interest, a genuine curiosity about life, an openness.

And proud. Not like “OMG, G, you are so great!” Proud for looking at fear, for overcoming resistance, for looking behind the door.

Thank you!

G


Return to “ARCHIVES”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests