Invitation to look :D

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Bezuda
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Invitation to look :D

Postby Bezuda » Sun Mar 18, 2012 8:45 pm

Would you like to see through no self?

Please reply, and we can start right away :)

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Karmic Eraser
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Re: Invitation to look :D

Postby Karmic Eraser » Sun Mar 18, 2012 9:35 pm

I thank you for your kind offer.

My name is July. I've done 20 years of church, then 10 years of search, 12 years of study with Ramtha The Enlightened One, and the last 7 years studying A Course in Miracles. I want to see through no-self because I want to see truly--simply because It Is. I want to see without the mental construct of "July."

I have had a couple of brief experiences of this freedom in the past few months, but the limiting construct always reappears. I want to identify where and why I'm still holding on and understand how to let it go. Either everything "in here" is self, or nothing is. I'm willing to accept that it's nothing; I just can't quite grasp the perspective.

Again, Thank You.
I look forward to the no-journey.
July

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Bezuda
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Re: Invitation to look :D

Postby Bezuda » Mon Mar 19, 2012 9:00 pm

Hey!

Thank you so much for letting me help you :)

Before we begin, tell me.. How do you imagine life without a self? What do you expect from this?

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Karmic Eraser
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Re: Invitation to look :D

Postby Karmic Eraser » Mon Mar 19, 2012 10:29 pm

I think that life without a self would be quiet--much less thinking going on (even though there is less now than there used to be) because from the Observer perspective (or liberated perspective), life would be allowed to happen without attempt at control or approval by an insecure imaginary mind-identity.

Without all the thought and attachment to outcome, I picture less angst, less worry, less nervousness. I must say that these things are at a minimum now because I've learned to observe most of my thinking and just drop it completely when it is unnecessary. (Mooji says "All thinking is self abuse.") Still, I have had my glimpses of "detachment," and the open acceptance of whatever comes (along with its delightful element of surprise at what might be next!) was just glorious. I felt large, expansive, joyous, "natural," wonder and content. I admit, I think that liberation from the thinking mind would be like that most of the time. Yet I WANT to know if my expectations are unrealistic.

Thank you so much for listening.
July

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Bezuda
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Re: Invitation to look :D

Postby Bezuda » Tue Mar 20, 2012 3:08 am

You came prepared, i can see ^^

You're expectation is close from the truth. But there's no way that all thinking is self abuse. There is no self. And there's no way for you to control thoughts, it's impossible! The brain can't create thoughts, it is instead, a receptor of the environment.

Ok, drop all the expectations you have, so you can see things for what they already are.
And be as honest as possible when answering my questions.

So tell me July.. What is 'I' or 'me' ? What is July?

Answer only when you're ready :)

Much love!

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Karmic Eraser
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Re: Invitation to look :D

Postby Karmic Eraser » Tue Mar 20, 2012 3:54 pm

Yes, I have been "doing the work" for many years, which I have come to see as just letting go of beliefs that block my awareness.

What is July? That is a difficult question to answer. Like looking into an empty glass and saying, "This is not water." If there is no July, I can probably only describe her by what she is not.

I have been doing an exercise for the last couple of days, referring to myself in the third person. I realized very quickly that I have absolutely no idea who I am. I can discern qualities that belong to the ego (impatience, anxiousness, distaste, weariness) and I qualify them as such just because that's what I've been taught. But I cannot assume that the hunger to awaken belongs to the authentic Self, or that I am being my true Self when I am patient or peaceful, accepting and eager.

I don't know where the dividing line is. So I don't know what is true and what is false. That is why I am here: I want to let go of (but do I HAVE TO identify it first?) the false and dwell only in the True.

Thank You.

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Bezuda
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Re: Invitation to look :D

Postby Bezuda » Wed Mar 21, 2012 1:30 am

Hey,

What is July? That is a difficult question to answer. Like looking into an empty glass and saying, "This is not water." If there is no July, I can probably only describe her by what she is not.
July is only a character in a story, experiencing it self.

I have been doing an exercise for the last couple of days, referring to myself in the third person. I realized very quickly that I have absolutely no idea who I am. I can discern qualities that belong to the ego (impatience, anxiousness, distaste, weariness) and I qualify them as such just because that's what I've been taught. But I cannot assume that the hunger to awaken belongs to the authentic Self, or that I am being my true Self when I am patient or peaceful, accepting and eager.
'I' , 'me' and 'self' are just labels for a body, and for thoughts and feelings that arise. Just the same as University is a label for students, teachers, library, etc.. But notice that University is just an idea, a concept. Following?

Tell me July.. Do you really have an ego?


I'm so glad i can help you with this :D

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Karmic Eraser
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Re: Invitation to look :D

Postby Karmic Eraser » Wed Mar 21, 2012 3:11 am

I'm so glad you can help me too!

Do "I" really have an ego?
I understand that there is no ego, no "I". Ego, personality, a made-up mental construct of my perspective on everything I think "happened," or every rising thought "I" identified with and collected.

I get that "The search for liberation is simply liberation pretending not be be itself, and looking for itself" (Richard Sylvester). "I" like that quote because it makes clear that there is only liberation, no July, just Awareness playing a little game with itself, pretending to hide so it can seek.

So
Tell me July.. Do you really have an ego?

No, there is no July, no ego, just the One Awareness, I guess we could say, "Us". This I "understand" intellectually, but this is not my "experience." I seem to be experiencing myself as separate, occasionally at the mercy of "my" thoughts and emotions.

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Bezuda
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Re: Invitation to look :D

Postby Bezuda » Thu Mar 22, 2012 9:30 pm

Hey July,

That's right, there's no ego, 'cause there's no self! It's just a mental construct..

Intellectually, you totally get this, but don't worry you'll make it :)

You'll trigger this when you look for a self that doesn't exist. All you need is the desire to really look.

Tell me..

In your experience, where do you find that separate 'me'? Is it the body? Is it the brain?! Is it the thoughts? Is it the feelings?

Blessings

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Karmic Eraser
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Re: Invitation to look :D

Postby Karmic Eraser » Fri Mar 23, 2012 1:33 am

Good Evening, B.

July has had a couple of really rough days, and so I've used the time to stand back and observe. I see July being afraid, dreading a confrontation. Thinking of her in the third person, I experience her as as character in my mind. Yet the body feels her emotions of fear and dread.

To be honest, I would have to say that this feels like I am July, and the Observer is a construct of my mind. When the body is involved, the dividing line blurs; I feel her fear so it seems as though I am looking out through July's eyes, not the eyes of a neutral awareness.

YET: This morning I went for a walk, trying to distance myself from the emotions which I intellectually assume belong to July/ego/thought/body. Watching her, asking Observer Me for strength and guidance for her relief (or her disappearance!), I then got to thinking, "WHO is watching July and talking to the Observer? Are there THREE of me in here?" I thought I could distance myself and look at July, but I could not feel myself as the Centered One. When I shut off the emotions, I just go numb.

So the answer to your question is that I find the constructed "me" in thoughts, in feelings, in the body. However, I don't know how to find who/what is left if she's gone. I've been free, but I can't free myself from the construct at will. Am I overthinking?
Thanks,
July

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Karmic Eraser
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Re: Invitation to look :D

Postby Karmic Eraser » Sat Mar 24, 2012 5:02 pm

Wait!

I've been doing some thinking on this, and reading a couple other threads here. I think that what each of us refers to as liberation might be two different things.

There is awareness in me that can really only ever be aware of the present moment. I call it the Observer; it watches thoughts come up, it watches action happen. It notices that certain thoughts seem to cling together and form a belief, a perspective, a story, even an identity. The identity "July" does not exist; she is a collection of opinions, memories, ideas, judgments, experiences that are all really nothing but THOUGHT.

When this body dies, I assume awareness will go on, but the special little collection of "personality" thoughts (I prefer chicken to beef and chocolate to vanilla) that I call July will cease to appear to exist; it doesn't exist NOW. There is no self; there never was. There were only thoughts which were identified with and preferred. Is this understanding what you call liberation?

I distinguish between that self and a universal Aware Self, which I guess could be called Spirit, and it is ALL Awareness, all of us. This of course is a "belief", not something I can point to as real unless I experience it. Then it is real. I have experienced moments of it, when the sensation of a personality-self fell away, all the emotions tied to the constructed self fell away, and I was just pure Awareness. THIS is what I call liberation, when not only the understanding of no-self is accepted but that the experience of free, unencumbered Awareness is lived moment-to-moment. Always in the present moment, as it were, with no "story" attached.
Am I a little closer to the mark here?
Thanks,
July

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Bezuda
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Re: Invitation to look :D

Postby Bezuda » Sun Mar 25, 2012 10:46 pm

Hey July,

Yes, you're closer to the mark.

Liberation is the absence of self. It is realizing that self is only a belief, the belief that self exists. And then you drop it.
What you really are is Awareness, but in fact this is something you can't put on words, you just can't. It's an experience not a word. And try not to use them too much, when was words that trapped you in the first place :)
You'll know when you there, you just will.

ok.. you already realized that there is no self and so, there never was one. Great!

Now.. Can you explain to me in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works?

(you should read other threads here, but when you're answering my questions you need to be complete honest with me, and mostly with yourself, so I can get track with your real progress and not with ideas you read)

Answer when you're ready. Much love :)

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Karmic Eraser
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Re: Invitation to look :D

Postby Karmic Eraser » Tue Mar 27, 2012 12:05 am

Thank You!

I won't read any other threads or books while we do this. I just want to ask, and let what I feel come honestly to the surface. And I'll express it as honestly as I can.

How the illusion of a separate self starts? What it is?
I think that babies are pure awareness. They take everything in and react to it very honestly. Once children become "self conscious," I think it is because they are assigning differences: This is MY mom; that is YOUR mom. This is MY body; that is YOUR body. Which is true, as far as it goes. But at some point there we stop being aware and just get lost in assigning things: I like this, I don't like that, this makes me happy, I will accept this but not that. All of these things are choices, decisions, and entirely subject to change, which to me says "Not Real."

The complete personality, identity, and sense of a separate self is nothing more than a collection of thoughts. I've watched myself change my thoughts, beliefs and personality throughout my life. But the awareness behind it doesn't feel any different than it did when I was four years old.

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Bezuda
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Re: Invitation to look :D

Postby Bezuda » Tue Apr 03, 2012 5:55 pm

Hey July,

You are already pure awareness! Not only babies, you just don't notice that. The mind got trapped in language, since we're very young, and think it has a owner. But awareness is always 'present', besides any 'mental confusion'. Following?

Tell me, how does it feel to see this?

Sorry to for taking so long..

Much love!


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