AC, this is your thread

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Anki
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Re: AC, this is your thread

Postby Anki » Thu Mar 22, 2012 11:51 pm

PS: They are the same unreal, faux, false, illusory self, silly.

May your sails be full and the wind at your back.
Unleash yourself. Look, and look again. No self to unleash.

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Alternate Carpark
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Re: AC, this is your thread

Postby Alternate Carpark » Fri Mar 23, 2012 2:11 pm

PS: They are the same unreal, faux, false, illusory self, silly.

May your sails be full and the wind at your back.
I agree that the self that observes the self is the same one self.
But where in the exercise of self observation does the idea that there is no self come from , seeing as there is a self doing the observing?
"Mindfulness refers to keeping one's consciousness alive to the present reality. It is the miracle by which we master and restore ourselves." - Thich Nhat Hanh
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"Let's not jump to conclusions" - Mike - MST3K

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Anki
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Re: AC, this is your thread

Postby Anki » Sat Mar 24, 2012 8:11 am

Well now. OK. A single, appropriate question from you. Great.

No "exercise of self observation" is possible, AC. Something that does not exist cannot be observed; what is possible is realizing that it is simply not present.

And since it is pointless, the "exercise of self observation" is not used here. Instead, deep looking is the tool employed to facilitate direct experience, which is the deal clincher. Not belief. Direct experience.

The "idea" of no-self is just another thought about a non-something. Intriguing, perhaps, but worthless.

In the end, what is "doing the observing" is not the "I". Can't be. It's not there. No observing possible.

There is this, too: The looking is not done through thinking, although it plays its part. Using thinking as the only method, however, would be thoughts trying to find a thought about something. That's a head trip every step of the way, AC. Interesting, addicting, seemingly self-validating, and total bullshit.

Where is the little entity you call 'me'? Just look. Don't think about.
Unleash yourself. Look, and look again. No self to unleash.

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Alternate Carpark
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Location: Tazzie, Oz

Re: AC, this is your thread

Postby Alternate Carpark » Mon Mar 26, 2012 6:11 pm

I just figured out\saw why I was having trouble with the forum...both in threads and PMs...
I am fortunate to be connected to the oldest fone exchange in tassie and i can only run dialup...a really slow and glitchy rendition of it.
(On bad days even the google search page takes 30 seconds to fire up. )
It says i was logged in here, when i actually wasn't.
The Quote button was missing and i couldn't send PMs.
Oh what jolly good fun.
Hopefully I can be productive today.
Oh, and i can't continue without metioning the frequent dropouts, like the one i had so far this morning.
Well now. OK. A single, appropriate question from you. Great.
If you judge my other enquiries as inappropriate, that's your choice.
I regard all my enquiries as appropriately related to the topic.
No "exercise of self observation" is possible, AC. Something that does not exist cannot be observed; what is possible is realizing that it is simply not present.
Looking at the logic of your statements from two different angles.

1: If this something (the self) does not exist, with what are you asking me to perform direct experience observations?
That is, who or what is realizing that a self does not exist?

2: If things that don't exist cannot be observed, then that means ghosts, bigfoots, demons, angels, ufo\aliens, etc..do exist.

3: just saw this one.
A blind peron could reason that nothing exists because they cannot see anything.
Highly unlikely i know, so...
A partially blind person could reason that particular things do not exist because they cannot see them even though they can see other things.
This is more likely as they think their current level of sight is 100% functional or unhindered.

4: and this one, which is an extension of 3.
Claiming things don't exist because one cannot see them signifies the possibility that a person is ignorant or has biased perception, "blinded by beliefs" is the common vernacular.
Many did not believe(could not see) Pasteur and others who were advocating the Germ Theory which proposes tiny living creatures were responsible for infection\disease.
Humanity could not see cells, bacteria, atoms for centuries but they had always existed.

Not seeing something is not proof something doesn't exist, nor is seeing something proof that it does exist.
And since it is pointless, the "exercise of self observation" is not used here.
Here\this place, cannot use anything. Only living things can utilize things.
Meaning, if you believe self observation is useless and you choose not to use it, then that's your choice.
But to claim it's not used by anyone who is here in LU is an illogical claim.
Instead, deep looking is the tool employed to facilitate direct experience, which is the deal clincher.
Who or what is using the tool of deep looking?
And once again i ask, asking you as i have asked denhamer and Chris, why are you concluding i am not looking deeply when i report back that i see a self?
I have employed Clear Mind\Still MInd\No MInd\Beginners Mind(however one wishes to call it) for over a decade, and upon observing my memory banks right back to when I was kid,
I have always observed this way, of course, not 24\7, but deep observing has always been a part of my life, I was simply not aware this is what it's called until i began the Eastern section of my journey.
Not belief. Direct experience.
Belief is the term used for when a person observes reality, processes the information(thinks about it) and comes to a conclusion about it.
They then say , "I believe this or i believe that."
A person can create a belief from direct experience, as easily as they can from indirect experience.
A belief is a conclusion of which the person regards as true or fact by way of trusting their own ability to comprehend\reason\figure out.
The "idea" of no-self is just another thought about a non-something. Intriguing, perhaps, but worthless.
I agree it's intruiging, but to me, ideas are not worthless.
Citing this again, Robert Koch was the first to prove(using his mind to think) the Germ Theory (an idea), he won a Nobel Prize for his efforts.
He explored and tested the idea\theory and discovered bacteria and because of his ideas and ideas of others, Alexander Fleming discovers Penicillian.
I for one, am an advocate of thinking...and I am also an advocate of clear observation that is free of thought.
In the end, what is "doing the observing" is not the "I". Can't be. It's not there. No observing possible.
And my question remains, one which no one wants to or can't answer\explain\show, or becomes annoyed with me when i ask,...who or what is doing the observing if there is no "I"?
There is this, too: The looking is not done through thinking, although it plays its part.
I am well aware that observing and thinking are two separate processes.
I have written extensivly about it, to which people start complaining.
Using thinking as the only method, however, would be thoughts trying to find a thought about something.
Thoughts can't do anything. Thoughts are inanimate creations of an animate entity, a person.
One observes, then one can choose to think about what they have observed.
And as I will continue to state, if someone asks me to report on what i have observed, i will have to employ my mind to think and create thoughts which will be traslated into words for the enquirer.
To which i also asked others and still to anyone if they care to, please show me how to communicate via language\words with others without thinking.
That's a head trip every step of the way, AC. Interesting, addicting, seemingly self-validating, and total bullshit.
Your conclusions about thoughts, yes, i agree with you.
Where is the little entity you call 'me'? Just look. Don't think about.
I like the cute little derogatory remark you inserted...."liitle me" as appoesd to just plain old unbiased "me".
Once again i look...i see and i am aware\conscious that i am observing what i conclude is my self.
Where is me? Currenly inhabiting this corporeal body, or connected to\associated with it, in the vicinity of.
Theoretically, my corporeal self is simply a different manifestation\form of the same energy that my incorporeal self is comprised of.
My incorporeal self, my mind, my soul, my spirit (depending on individual word preference)...I prefer, inner self.
My inner self, as i self observe, is not little as you choose to see it.
My inner self is infinite, it has no boundaries, though for reasons that i haven't any beliefs or concise conclusions about, is somehow connected to this corporeal body\form,
in that either this corporeal body is my external self, or my inner infinite self is merely associated\connected with it, and that it's my responsiblity to take care of it.
"Mindfulness refers to keeping one's consciousness alive to the present reality. It is the miracle by which we master and restore ourselves." - Thich Nhat Hanh
-
"Let's not jump to conclusions" - Mike - MST3K

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Anki
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Re: AC, this is your thread

Postby Anki » Mon Mar 26, 2012 9:40 pm

You are in good hands with StephVen, AC... thanks for the interesting posts since I first said goodbye.

Happy trails to you.....

L
Unleash yourself. Look, and look again. No self to unleash.

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Alternate Carpark
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Re: AC, this is your thread

Postby Alternate Carpark » Tue Mar 27, 2012 1:11 am

You are in good hands with StephVen, AC... thanks for the interesting posts since I first said goodbye.

Happy trails to you.....

L
Thankyou too, i enjoyed hangin' with you.

If that's what you think of StepVheN, that that's what you think.
For me, StepVhen has not offered me one thing to help me see there is no self.
All he/she does is try to invoke some kind of emotional response from me via insults.
But if that's how she/he has chosen to guide me, I'm all for it, even though i regard this approach as highly ineffective.
It's sort of like, "You're an idiot, see that proof there is no self"
It simply does not compute to me.
But i assume StepVhen is a seasoned guide and must trust his/her methods, and seeing as i am new to this, who am i to claim his/her methods don't work.

But so far i don't see his/her methods have anything to do with showing me the Gate.
"Mindfulness refers to keeping one's consciousness alive to the present reality. It is the miracle by which we master and restore ourselves." - Thich Nhat Hanh
-
"Let's not jump to conclusions" - Mike - MST3K


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