Seeker

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mystical1977
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Seeker

Postby mystical1977 » Fri Sep 07, 2018 10:55 am

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
The self that I believe I am which is my name, my personality and everything that makes me think of myself as an individual being separate from all others in unique ways is just a mental construct I accumulated throughout my life through family, society and so on. LU is guiding ‘me’ to awaken to my true self which’s the underlying silent awar

What are you looking for at LU?
I am looking for a way of looking directly in to my real nature which is clouded by the illusory self which I call ‘me’. I believe there are many approaches to enlightenment and some uniquely fits some people and I hope to get the one that works for me

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
An insight and inspiration that can create a shif in to my current way of understanding the spiritual journey I am in. Sometimes a single word is enough to unlock in understanding that might take years otherwise

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
A lot of reading, discussing with friends and meditation that I’ve to say I’ve not been consistent

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self?
10

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Canfora
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Re: Seeker

Postby Canfora » Mon Sep 10, 2018 10:12 am

Hi mystical1977 and welcome to the LU forum! I'm Canfora and I can be your guide if that's okay with you.
Thank you for your introduction.

Did you read this list about what LU is not?: https://www.liberationunleashed.com/about/faq/#faq-1041
What are your thoughts about what is said in this list?

Take care,
C

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mystical1977
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Re: Seeker

Postby mystical1977 » Mon Sep 10, 2018 5:24 pm

Hello canfora,

First I would like to apologize for my late reply. I was waiting for an email instead of checking the forum. Anyway thank you so much for taking your time to be my guide. I’m really grateful for this opportunity.

I’ve read what LU is not and I’ve been reading gateless gatecrashers and also been reading the LUenlightening app as well. I think I’ve a clear idea of what LU is about and what it’s not. To explain further LU is not about how to make life better or be happy all the time. Or how to get a meaning of life by practicing certain activities. Rather it’s about seeing reality for what it is without the need I. The realization of life happening all at once without the distinction of within or without. I hope this is enough for now. I once again would like to say thank for being my guide. I’m full committed to follow you wherever you take me. My name is Mehari and I would like to use it from here on.
Looking forward for your reply
Mehari

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Canfora
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Re: Seeker

Postby Canfora » Tue Sep 11, 2018 1:02 pm

Hi Mehari,

Thank you for your reply! It's my pleasure being your guide! You seem to have a nice understanding of what this is about. Since you have read LU material, I suppose that you have an idea about what "looking" (used in the LU context) is?

If you do, can you please explain what you understand by "looking"?

Have you tried to look for a self? If you did, how did it go?

Take care,
C

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mystical1977
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Re: Seeker

Postby mystical1977 » Tue Sep 11, 2018 2:43 pm

Hi Canfora,

I’ve read about what it is to ‘look’ and it was shocking clear for the first time in my life. I’ve read extensively about witnessing and tried to practice it from the teaching of Osho, j. Krishna Marti and many more. All this time my understanding was to maintain the awareness of the subject object relationship however long I can. But now since I started reading the LU materials, it’s became clear that there is no gap or distance between looking and whatever ‘I’ look at. I experienced for brief moments there is only looking. It’s like I’m looking but also I’m what’s being looked at. It’s a really weird feeling. The cause of all this is the realization that there is no ‘ Mehari’ in any shape or form. All the effort I’ve been doing so far was to make ‘Mehari’ enlightened. Which is very funny now that I know it doesn’t even exist. But Canfora how to establish on this truth without this life long habit of ‘Mehari ‘ interfering?

With Gratitude
Mehari

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Canfora
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Re: Seeker

Postby Canfora » Tue Sep 11, 2018 4:16 pm

Hi Mehari,
But Canfora how to establish on this truth without this life long habit of ‘Mehari ‘ interfering?
Speaking from my own experience, I think this may take a (long) while until it happens or it may even never happen at all. If you are lucky, after a while you stop caring if it happens or not (it becomes irrelevant), you stop thinking about it or you just deal with it the best you can at the moment it happens or something similar.
All this time my understanding was to maintain the awareness of the subject object relationship however long I can. But now since I started reading the LU materials, it’s became clear that there is no gap or distance between looking and whatever ‘I’ look at. I experienced for brief moments there is only looking. It’s like I’m looking but also I’m what’s being looked at. It’s a really weird feeling.
Thank you for describing some of the things you have experienced in the past. I would like to know what do you do right now if I ask you if you can see a self.
Which is very funny now that I know it doesn’t even exist.
Can you please describe what do you do if you want to check right now if this is true? What do you do to know if a self is real or not?

Take care,
C

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mystical1977
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Re: Seeker

Postby mystical1977 » Wed Sep 12, 2018 2:33 pm

Dear Canfora,
Speaking from my own experience, I think this may take a (long) while until it happens or it may even never happen at all. If you are lucky, after a while you stop caring if it happens or not (it becomes irrelevant), you stop thinking about it or you just deal with it the best you can at the moment it happens or something similar.

- Stop caring about it sounds good to me. I’ll deal with it as it comes.

- about what I do to know if the self exists or not?
I’ve been observing myself according to LU, I can’t say this is ‘self’ anywhere except as thought form.It’s clear that the body functions it’s actions without the self getting involved . The mind only registers the bodily actions after they happened which means it’s a spontaneous occurrence. The self is not even the owner of thoughts as thoughts just appear and disappear out of nothing by themselves. If the self is the owner of thoughts as it appears to be before a close investigation, wouldn’t it chose to think only those pleasant ones to keep it self happy all the time? Since it’s entire mission in life is to look for pleasure and avoid pain. The only time the self appears to exist is when a thought of the self pops up or when it claims the thoughts as ‘mine’ after they appear. All I know is I don’t have a self when I’m sleeping or when I’m fully alive in the moment. So, if unless I think about myself the self it doesn’t exist, it must be another thought.

Looking forward to your feedback
Mehari







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Canfora
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Re: Seeker

Postby Canfora » Wed Sep 12, 2018 3:12 pm

Dear Mehari,

Thank you for your answer!

You can learn how to use the quote function here: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=660

If you find it difficult to use don't worry, what you did in your last post is fine.
I’ve been observing myself according to LU, I can’t say this is ‘self’ anywhere except as thought form.It’s clear that the body functions it’s actions without the self getting involved . The mind only registers the bodily actions after they happened which means it’s a spontaneous occurrence. The self is not even the owner of thoughts as thoughts just appear and disappear out of nothing by themselves. If the self is the owner of thoughts as it appears to be before a close investigation, wouldn’t it chose to think only those pleasant ones to keep it self happy all the time? Since it’s entire mission in life is to look for pleasure and avoid pain. The only time the self appears to exist is when a thought of the self pops up or when it claims the thoughts as ‘mine’ after they appear. All I know is I don’t have a self when I’m sleeping or when I’m fully alive in the moment. So, if unless I think about myself the self it doesn’t exist, it must be another thought.
That's a nice answer.

Would you say that if you observe what is here now, a self, a Mehari can't be found? Can you see this in your own immediate experience right now? Or do you have difficulties and doubts? If you do, tell me what they are, so that we can talk about them.

If there isn't a self, what would you say is doing this exploration?

Take care,
C

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mystical1977
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Re: Seeker

Postby mystical1977 » Wed Sep 12, 2018 5:15 pm

Would you say that if you observe what is here now, a self, a Mehari can't be found? Can you see this in your own immediate experience right now? Or do you have difficulties and doubts? If you do, tell me what they are, so that we can talk about them.
Even though I can’t find a self in any tangible way when I look, it still feels like the one looking is Mehari. Whatever I look is interpreted as I’m looking this or that. Sometimes i feel it strongly and sometimes it’s subtle.
If there isn't a self, what would you say is doing this exploration?


I guess the above answer covers this one. The mind is very tricky, of course Mehari is doing the exploration.

Thank you,
Mehari

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Canfora
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Re: Seeker

Postby Canfora » Thu Sep 13, 2018 12:58 pm

of course Mehari is doing the exploration.
How do you know this? Is a real Mehari here? If it is, can you please describe this Mehari?

Take care,
C

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mystical1977
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Re: Seeker

Postby mystical1977 » Thu Sep 13, 2018 2:36 pm

How do you know this? Is a real Mehari here? If it is, can you please describe this Mehari?
Well since I can’t locate Mehari’s existence outside of thought and the idea of liberation also appears to Mehari in thought form, the striving to wake up to the truth must be another thought . Even though I understand Mehari doesn’t exist conceptually it’s not “my” truth yet. so everything happening must be happening according to Mehari including this exploration.
Does that make sense?

Mehari

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Canfora
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Re: Seeker

Postby Canfora » Fri Sep 14, 2018 2:51 pm

Hi Mehari,

That's circular thinking. It makes sense but is it true? What makes you think a you is real right now? What can you see that may be a real self? Don't think. Look. Do you see a you?

Take care,
C

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mystical1977
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Re: Seeker

Postby mystical1977 » Fri Sep 14, 2018 4:46 pm

That's circular thinking. It makes sense but is it true? What makes you think a you is real right now? What can you see that may be a real self? Don't think. Look. Do you see a you?
Do I see me? i see the body sitting in a quite room and its reflection behind the computer, fingers typing, a plesant feeling that comes after workout. the sound of the a/c and other distant sounds. thoughts coming and going. thoughts about i'm mehari noticed but gone but back again and gone again and another thought comes. everything happens without and doer. a mehari. body does what it does, fingers type in away only they know how, thought flow as they wish. no mehari pulling strings in any way and yet the thought of mehari doing it all is strong and it feels more than a thought. what am i missing canfora? i think i need a slap.

Your friend
mehari

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Canfora
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Re: Seeker

Postby Canfora » Sat Sep 15, 2018 2:39 pm

Hi mehari,

You seem to have one feet on either side of the gate. You see and you also think something is missing. That's very common. That's the self illusion in its best. And that's okay. Our goal isn't to change how life is being experienced, our goal is to check if a separate, permanent, solid self is real - regardless of the appearances.

Although a self can't be found, the illusion itself can be prevalent and very strong, the same way that you can see water in the desert or a rainbow in the sky when the conditions allow those appearances.

Feeling that you are a self doesn't mean a self is real. It's just a feeling that seems to be connected to something that is supposed to exist: "I feel I am, therefore I am here feeling, I am real".

How do you know if something is real mehari? Can you give me some examples of things you know are real and things you know aren't real?

Take care,
C

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mystical1977
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Re: Seeker

Postby mystical1977 » Sun Sep 16, 2018 10:22 pm

You seem to have one feet on either side of the gate. You see and you also think something is missing. That's very common. That's the self illusion in its best. And that's okay. Our goal isn't to change how life is being experienced, our goal is to check if a separate, permanent, solid self is real - regardless of the appearances.
Thank you canfora for the encouraging words. ever since i started this journey with you i definetly see a shift in perispective. now thoughts are thoughts. just one tiny part of the ever changing dance of life. i'm immensely grateful for you in helping me SEE.
How do you know if something is real mehari? Can you give me some examples of things you know are real and things you know aren't real?
i know i am real. for everything is possible to be experienced because i am. i know the body is real along with everything in the material plane for as long as it lives. i know thoughts and feelings are real as they are needed to help the body interact with the world. these are some of the things i know to be real. The thing i know not to real though almost the entire world considers it to be real. the biggest lie of all is? I ( mehari) is not real.Llike you said it perfectly it's a mirage taken for the real stuff. I is just a thought, a conceptual communication means taken by the society as real exsisting entity and embaded in our mind from early on and creats the false self. but now up on close investigation i can't find it anywhere except as a thought. like i see the body, i see thoughts streaming carrying diffrent stories including I.

yours,
mehari


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