Ready for liberation

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Canfora
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Re: Ready for liberation

Postby Canfora » Tue Sep 25, 2018 9:33 am

Hi S, thank you for your reply. How are things going? Are you still feeling frustration?
The body is here. I try to find the I, and i cannot find a solid entity. It is more like a feeling of "I-ness".
Yes, well done.
Is the body me? Well, the body may be a part of me. I certainly don't know any time where I did not have this body.
Can you notice how when you look you can't find a me and when you think you start having doubts?
At least that is what occurs to me as an explanation.
A explanation is always a interpretation of what is going on. Would you agree with what I'm saying?
You can see what is going on without overriding an interpretation over what you just saw.
Looking and seeing something is easy, you are already doing that all the time.
Try not to explain. Describe instead - tell me what do you see going on here now.
Just like the "I", there is no solid entity I can point to and say it is the mind. There is a lot of analysis that goes on, which may be the mind, but the analysis is thoughts as well. So maybe the mind is a series of thoughts. but taking something as simple as cold medicine changes the way and extent of what i think, so I don't know. there may be a physical basis for the types and amount of thoughts I perceive.
You are thinking about thoughts instead of looking to thoughts. Thoughts appear all the time. Look at them for a while. Is mind more than a useful concept? Do thoughts appear in a bundle or one at a time?
They are something that occur to me.
Have a look around. Can you see/find this me to whom thoughts are supposed to be occurring? Is this me more than a thought?

Take care,
C

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smalkapuram
Posts: 55
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2018 6:57 am

Re: Ready for liberation

Postby smalkapuram » Tue Sep 25, 2018 2:16 pm

Hi C,

I don't feel the frustration much now. I am concentrating on seeing what IS, rather than thinking and analyzing.
A explanation is always a interpretation of what is going on. Would you agree with what I'm saying?
Yes, I agree. Explaining something is different from stating what is. Interpretation is far from actuality.
You are thinking about thoughts instead of looking to thoughts. Thoughts appear all the time. Look at them for a while.
When i look at thoughts, they disappear like ghosts. some try to frighten, some try to tempt, but if i just look at them, they fade out slowly.
Is mind more than a useful concept? Do thoughts appear in a bundle or one at a time?
I am not sure about the mind. I cannot locate it. But without analysis and interpretation (as cautioned), the mind does not seem to exist. if i just see what is going on, things are just happening. if i don't interpret, there is no mind. but if i have to take a decision, i need to analyze. so at that time, what is analyzing? for example, go left or go right? i analyze and decide. is that not mind?

Regards
S

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Canfora
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Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 2:58 pm

Re: Ready for liberation

Postby Canfora » Tue Sep 25, 2018 7:23 pm

Hi S,
I don't feel the frustration much now. I am concentrating on seeing what IS, rather than thinking and analyzing.
Okay, good. You're doing fine (even if sometimes it doesn't feel that way...). Just keep going one step at a time.
Yes, I agree. Explaining something is different from stating what is. Interpretation is far from actuality.
Yes!
When i look at thoughts, they disappear like ghosts. some try to frighten, some try to tempt, but if i just look at them, they fade out slowly.
Notice some thoughts: "banana", "sky", "yellow".
Are thoughts powerful? What can a single thought do? What can a bunch of thoughts do?

Below are thoughts someone wrote somewhere. Do these thoughts have a similar effect on you?:
Image
I am not sure about the mind. I cannot locate it. But without analysis and interpretation (as cautioned), the mind does not seem to exist. if i just see what is going on, things are just happening. if i don't interpret, there is no mind. but if i have to take a decision, i need to analyze. so at that time, what is analyzing? for example, go left or go right? i analyze and decide. is that not mind?
Are you sure you need to analyze and decide to go left or right?

What happens if I ask you to move one hand left or right?

Is thinking needed for a hand to move? The hand moves (or not) ONLY with previous analysis and decision?

Don't think about this. Play with a hand and notice and describe what you see going on - without adding interpretation.

Let me know how it goes and what you find.

Take care,
C

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smalkapuram
Posts: 55
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2018 6:57 am

Re: Ready for liberation

Postby smalkapuram » Wed Sep 26, 2018 1:50 pm

Hi C,
Are thoughts powerful? What can a single thought do? What can a bunch of thoughts do?
Thoughts can be powerful if we invest in them. If we watch them, and don't impart value, it is different. They only have as much value as we give them. The text you pasted in a different language does not have an effect on me, since i do not understand it and cannot analyze it.
Is thinking needed for a hand to move? The hand moves (or not) ONLY with previous analysis and decision?

Don't think about this. Play with a hand and notice and describe what you see going on - without adding interpretation.
The hand moves without any thought and analysis. its freaky, actually :)


So is thinking not needed for anything we do? What about when performing a specific task like cooking. We need to plan what to do. We need to go to the grocery store, buy groceries, think of a recipe and cook.

Regards
S

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Canfora
Posts: 3756
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 2:58 pm

Re: Ready for liberation

Postby Canfora » Thu Sep 27, 2018 10:07 am

Hi S,
So is thinking not needed for anything we do? What about when performing a specific task like cooking. We need to plan what to do. We need to go to the grocery store, buy groceries, think of a recipe and cook.
Thinking can be a very useful tool, yes.
I don't know if you have some experience with small children? Would you say children start to think the moment they are born or learn to think? Do they need to think to function?

Are you thinking all the time? If you're not thinking what to to do next, does life goes into a halt?

Do you have to think to breathe?
Do you have to think to digest?
Do you have to think to feel an emotion?
Do you have to think to think the next thought?

Take care,
C

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smalkapuram
Posts: 55
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2018 6:57 am

Re: Ready for liberation

Postby smalkapuram » Thu Sep 27, 2018 11:00 am

Hi C,
Thanks for the reply.
I don't know if you have some experience with small children? Would you say children start to think the moment they are born or learn to think? Do they need to think to function?
I have observed small children. They do think probably. When they are very little and helpless, actions seem instinctive, but on growing up beyond toddler age, they do seem to think. The thought "I want" makes them pull a toy away from another child.
Are you thinking all the time? If you're not thinking what to to do next, does life goes into a halt?

Do you have to think to breathe?
Do you have to think to digest?
Do you have to think to feel an emotion?
Do you have to think to think the next thought?
I don't think all the time. Life does not go into a halt if I don't think, but the dinner won't get cooked if I don't think :)

None of the above mentioned functions require thinking, and I don't have to think to think the next thought. Thoughts seem to appear.
So, the process of thinking is happening automatically. But I need this automatic process to do non-automatic things like make up a new recipe? Does not make sense.
But it does not seem correct to say that life will go on completely fully functionally if we do not think and analyze.

Regards
S

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Canfora
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Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 2:58 pm

Re: Ready for liberation

Postby Canfora » Thu Sep 27, 2018 3:32 pm

Hi S,

We are starting to discuss "the way things are and function", which in my experience as a guide isn't helpful. Let's say you get the answers about the role of thoughts in life. What would that change regarding this explorating? Yes, thoughts are very useful when we want to do something. Does this mean there is a real separate you appearing in this process? What would this self be other than thoughts about a self?

Take care,
C

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smalkapuram
Posts: 55
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2018 6:57 am

Re: Ready for liberation

Postby smalkapuram » Fri Sep 28, 2018 1:42 am

Hi C,

Thanks for the reply.
We are starting to discuss "the way things are and function", which in my experience as a guide isn't helpful. Let's say you get the answers about the role of thoughts in life. What would that change regarding this explorating? Yes, thoughts are very useful when we want to do something. Does this mean there is a real separate you appearing in this process? What would this self be other than thoughts about a self?
I understand that this is more a direct seeing process than a "how and why" type process. I was writing down what occurs to me as is, and the analytical mind is always "on".

Sure, it may not mean that there is a separate self thinking and analyzing. As of now, it is a possibility that may be true, in my experience.

Thanks
S

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Canfora
Posts: 3756
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 2:58 pm

Re: Ready for liberation

Postby Canfora » Fri Sep 28, 2018 11:21 am

Hi S,

What can you find in the present experience that is yours?

Take care,
C

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smalkapuram
Posts: 55
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2018 6:57 am

Re: Ready for liberation

Postby smalkapuram » Fri Sep 28, 2018 5:52 pm

Hi C,
What can you find in the present experience that is yours?
My body is mine, I can't find anything else that I can say confidently is mine.

Regards
S

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Canfora
Posts: 3756
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 2:58 pm

Re: Ready for liberation

Postby Canfora » Sat Sep 29, 2018 2:02 pm

Hi S,

What makes you say the body is yours?

Take care,
C

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smalkapuram
Posts: 55
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2018 6:57 am

Re: Ready for liberation

Postby smalkapuram » Sat Sep 29, 2018 2:15 pm

Hi Canfora,
Thank you for the reply.
What makes you say the body is yours?
I feel things that happen to the body, while I don't feel the things that happen to other things and other bodies.

Thanks
S

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smalkapuram
Posts: 55
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2018 6:57 am

Re: Ready for liberation

Postby smalkapuram » Sat Sep 29, 2018 2:16 pm

I meant i am able to feel things that happen to the body, while I am not able to feel things that happen to other bodies.

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smalkapuram
Posts: 55
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Re: Ready for liberation

Postby smalkapuram » Sat Sep 29, 2018 2:16 pm

I meant i am able to feel things that happen to the body, while I am not able to feel things that happen to other bodies.

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Canfora
Posts: 3756
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 2:58 pm

Re: Ready for liberation

Postby Canfora » Sat Sep 29, 2018 2:32 pm

You are also able to feel the wind, the cold, the warm, the taste of soup, a book. Does this mean they are yours?
Is feeling something equal to owning or being that something?
The body is felt yes. Does this mean it is owned? By what?


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