I am Liberated?

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Bushman
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I am Liberated?

Postby Bushman » Mon Oct 03, 2011 11:55 pm

Everywhere I look I here teachers saying "you are already what you are searching for" So why am I here? What is there to do or see or get, if I am already that. End of story? Yet my experience seems to suggest that this is not it, what appears in this moment is not satisfactory. So there seems to be a contradiction here, or is that part of the great paradox?
"truth talk in the dream state" JM

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Nemo
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Re: I am Liberated?

Postby Nemo » Tue Oct 04, 2011 12:08 am

Hi Bushman, welcome.
Indeed, everything is already real and true - in the sense that what IS is what is - how could things be any different?
What seekers are often searching for is to actually realise what's real though, to directly know reality from illusion. To see things for what they are.
So, if "you are already what you are searching for", so let's look at what you are.
What are you?
"Having the answer isn't enough. You have to do the math." - Jed McKenna
http://nemonavigator.blogspot.com/

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Nemo
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Re: I am Liberated?

Postby Nemo » Tue Oct 04, 2011 12:11 am

I just wanted to add - what appears in this moment can never be satisfactory. Nothing needs to be changed, only perception. This is the only thing that makes things appear unsatisfactory.
"Having the answer isn't enough. You have to do the math." - Jed McKenna
http://nemonavigator.blogspot.com/

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Nemo
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Re: I am Liberated?

Postby Nemo » Tue Oct 04, 2011 12:13 am

(*can never be unsatisfactory)
"Having the answer isn't enough. You have to do the math." - Jed McKenna
http://nemonavigator.blogspot.com/

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Bushman
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Re: I am Liberated?

Postby Bushman » Tue Oct 04, 2011 12:29 am

I am just this experience as I type thats seems to be all I really know.
"truth talk in the dream state" JM

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Bushman
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Re: I am Liberated?

Postby Bushman » Tue Oct 04, 2011 12:33 am

Like I feel angry at something and I instanty see that this is pointless but it seems to be a tendancy I cannot change even though I don't agree with the response. Well what is agreeing or not agreeing? I have not got a clue what it is.
"truth talk in the dream state" JM

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Bushman
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Re: I am Liberated?

Postby Bushman » Tue Oct 04, 2011 12:37 am

I've read tons of Non-dual writtings and yeah its interesting and makes sense, but so what? Things seem to go on as before, frustration, anxiety at having no money or job or prospects and some joy. There aint no magic bullet.
"truth talk in the dream state" JM

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Bushman
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Re: I am Liberated?

Postby Bushman » Tue Oct 04, 2011 12:38 am

Whats the magic ingredient missing?
"truth talk in the dream state" JM

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Nemo
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Re: I am Liberated?

Postby Nemo » Tue Oct 04, 2011 2:15 am

The magic ingredient that is missing is you. Literally.
And not missing in a sense that you are lost, or need to find yourself, in a sense that you don't exist.
No doubt all the non-dual writings make sense, but understanding a concept isn't enough. As our friend Mr. McKenna says here in my signature below, having the answer isn't enough. You have to do the math.
Sure, it makes sense, but IS IT TRUE?
Take a look. Do the legwork.
Find out - Do you exist?
"Having the answer isn't enough. You have to do the math." - Jed McKenna
http://nemonavigator.blogspot.com/

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Bushman
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Re: I am Liberated?

Postby Bushman » Tue Oct 04, 2011 9:00 am

Well if its true "I" don't exist then I don't exist how can you argue with the truth, impossible. So there is this truth, what more is there other than what is true. Nothing you or I say or think or do or not do will change that truth. What's next. Is it important that this truth is acknowledged? Well I don't know is it? What needs to acknowledge or see this truth? If its true there is no you then no you can see anything. If something is true why does it need recognition? Surely everything is true its true illusion or its true true-ness. Thinking about this stuff is useless.
"truth talk in the dream state" JM

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No_One
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Re: I am Liberated?

Postby No_One » Wed Oct 05, 2011 5:40 am

What needs to be done is to do the legwork, do the math. Knowing this does not help. You have to see it. You have to see there is no I in the actual experience. Just look at your actual experience. There is a strong feeling that "I do this" "I think" "I feel" "I observe". But is that true? Can you find the I that is doing that or does life happen without an I? Can you see more then thoughts about an I in reality? That's what we need to find out. Thinking is useless, only actual experience matters.
The truth is in here not out there

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Bushman
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Re: I am Liberated?

Postby Bushman » Wed Oct 05, 2011 10:41 pm

You are talking about some sort of pure reality untainted by thought? What is seeing this? I don't exist so I can't really see anything right? I can't even see the illusion of me, because that would be the end of the illusion. No it would be illusion on top of illusion. Tolle says just drop all concepts and dwell in presence, yet right, I do that now. Hey it doesn't work. What do you mean by doing the math or the legwork? Sounds like trying to work something out.
"truth talk in the dream state" JM

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Nemo
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Re: I am Liberated?

Postby Nemo » Thu Oct 06, 2011 3:44 am

Knowing/seeing happens prior to thought. Thought then comes in to try and fit it into some kind of framework, puts it in context with everything else. It's not an evil thing, it's just a necessary function of the human mind/body for operating in the world. Thought is still also a valid part of reality. A thought is real, what is points to may or may not be. But this can always be discovered, by looking in direct experience.
I don't exist so I can't really see anything right? I can't even see the illusion of me, because that would be the end of the illusion. No it would be illusion on top of illusion.
Are these just thoughts that point to nothing, or have you actually looked to find out? Are you just guessing?
Finding out what's real - what can be known first hand, in direct experience - is doing the legwork.
What have you got to lose?

Early on you said this-
I am just this experience as I type thats seems to be all I really know.
It's actually a really good start. Are you interested in continuing from here?
There is experience, that is a certainty. Does it require an I, an experiencer, to exist?
"Having the answer isn't enough. You have to do the math." - Jed McKenna
http://nemonavigator.blogspot.com/

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Bushman
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Re: I am Liberated?

Postby Bushman » Fri Oct 07, 2011 6:36 am

Knowing/seeing happens prior to thought. .
So the seeing is happening anyway before thought translates it into 'my perception'. I heard it said don't believe in every thought that presents its self how do you not believe in something if you are not in control in the first place?
"truth talk in the dream state" JM

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Nemo
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Re: I am Liberated?

Postby Nemo » Fri Oct 07, 2011 7:07 am

Well, how do you think belief happens to start with?
"Having the answer isn't enough. You have to do the math." - Jed McKenna
http://nemonavigator.blogspot.com/


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