donothing

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Gem47
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donothing

Postby Gem47 » Thu Aug 16, 2018 3:02 am

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
LU will guide me towards the truth, that there is no 'me'. I have built up a false image of myself that I believe is real, so I protect and nurture it, but it is all just an illusion that distracts me from the truth.

What are you looking for at LU?
I am looking for grounded guidance to help me find my true nature. I would like to be free of illusions and see and feel the beauty of life every moment in all it's entirety. I do Know this requires effort but I also need guidance.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
I would like guidance from someone with empathy and it would be nice to chat with a person about this process as this is something I have never done. I read a great deal about it but this will be interactive and therefore different.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
The first book I read on the subject was about 20 years ago, it was 'The Power of Now', Eckhart Tolle. This had a big impact on me. Since then I have read numerous books my most recent being 'I am That' and 'A course in Miracles'. I attended meditation classes for a couple of years, but now I prefer to read the books slowly and digest them as a sort of meditation.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self?
10

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Jadzia
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Re: donothing

Postby Jadzia » Thu Aug 30, 2018 6:15 pm

Hi Gem47,

My name is Jadzia. You had to wait a while, so if you are still interested we could start now.

This is more an investigation than a chat. This is all about experience, your experience, what you can experience. I will ask you lots of questions and give you little experiments – is that ok with you?

Love,
Jadzia

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Gem47
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Re: donothing

Postby Gem47 » Thu Aug 30, 2018 6:42 pm

Hello Jadzia, yes that is fine, thank you.

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Jadzia
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Re: donothing

Postby Jadzia » Thu Aug 30, 2018 6:58 pm

Fine. Let’s start.

Is there no ‘me’?
Where do you find this ‘me’ if you look?

Love,
Jadzia

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Gem47
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Re: donothing

Postby Gem47 » Thu Aug 30, 2018 7:16 pm

Jadzia,

I'm sorry, I don't really understand the question.

Margaret

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Jadzia
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Re: donothing

Postby Jadzia » Thu Aug 30, 2018 7:23 pm

Ok, Margaret.

This is what you wrote in your introduction:
"LU will guide me towards the truth, that there is no 'me'."
So right now there is a me, or?
Where do you find it? In the pocket of your trousers? ;-)
What tells about a me, how do you know there is one?

There is no big answer expected nor anything overly smart - just have a look.

love,
Jadzia

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Gem47
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Re: donothing

Postby Gem47 » Thu Aug 30, 2018 7:35 pm

Jadzia,

I believe there is no me, but I can't keep this awareness with me because my thoughts pull me in to believing there is a me. If I were to physically look for me I would never find it because it is imaginary, in my mind. But nevertheless I continue to live my life as though it's real.

Love Margaret

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Jadzia
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Re: donothing

Postby Jadzia » Thu Aug 30, 2018 7:50 pm

We aren’t into believing or not believing but in experiencing. :-)
One can actually experience smell, noise, taste, colour/form (seeing), physical sensation and thought. Do you agree with this? Or do you find other ways of experiencing?
Check it.

So now really look: can you smell, hear, taste, see a me or have a physical sensation of a me?
Is there any actual experience of a me apart the word me you find in thoughts?

Love,
Jadzia

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Gem47
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Re: donothing

Postby Gem47 » Thu Aug 30, 2018 8:35 pm

Yes I agree we can experience all of the senses and thought, and occasionally something else, maybe I can call it intuition. But thought seems to accompany all of them and distort the real experience in some way.

So, no, there is no actual experience of a me other than the word 'me' in thoughts, but I have to experience those thoughts and they often seem to be able to take me away from the real experiencing.

Love Margaret

PS I have ordered the book 'Gateless Gatecrashers'.

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Jadzia
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Re: donothing

Postby Jadzia » Fri Aug 31, 2018 6:27 am

Yes I agree we can experience all of the senses and thought, and occasionally something else, maybe I can call it intuition.
Using the power of Looking where do you find intuition?
But thought seems to accompany all of them and distort the real experience in some way.
Oh yes, thoughts do their job.

For the next hours observe thoughts closely. Do it in a friendly way and simply be curious about them.
When colour/form is noticed – what happens in thoughts?
When a smell, a noise, a taste, a sensation is noticed – what happens in thoughts?

What else do they seem to do?

The book is a good read. It is still about your experience though.

Love,
Jadzia

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Gem47
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Re: donothing

Postby Gem47 » Fri Aug 31, 2018 6:24 pm

Hello Jadzia,

Thank you for your reply.
Using the power of Looking where do you find intuition?
I don't think intuition is found anywhere, it seems to just be felt sometimes.

I have monitored my thoughts a lot today, I ate my breakfast very slowly in a mindful way and when thoughts appeared I seemed to be just going through the motion of eating without really experiencing the taste and sensations.

I continued to monitor my thoughts throughout the day and despite the fact that the majority of them are just rubbish, they still manage to take away my present moment awareness and distract me from life. But on the other hand, sometimes thoughts can be comforting, probably because I'm so used to them. It can be hard work trying to stay present and letting the thoughts in can then be relaxing. But the thoughts are always based around the 'me' that I know is just an illusion yet I still manage to get caught up in them.

Love Margaret

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Jadzia
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Re: donothing

Postby Jadzia » Fri Aug 31, 2018 7:54 pm

I don't think intuition is found anywhere, it seems to just be felt sometimes.
Did you just think about it or did you really look?

Sometimes precision is needed together with the looking and observing.
Can intuition be really felt, as a physical sensation? Or is there a thought with the content “This feels like intuition”?
I continued to monitor my thoughts throughout the day and despite the fact that the majority of them are just rubbish, they still manage to take away my present moment awareness and distract me from life. But on the other hand, sometimes thoughts can be comforting, probably because I'm so used to them. It can be hard work trying to stay present and letting the thoughts in can then be relaxing. But the thoughts are always based around the 'me' that I know is just an illusion yet I still manage to get caught up in them.
Define rubbish, please. What thoughts are rubbish and why?

Do thoughts have any power? Can they do something?
Can thoughts for example lift something by their power?
Can thoughts take something away? And of whom?
How can an illusion, which is something which is per definition not existent, be caught up in a thought or anything else?
Have a close look – isn’t there a just thought like “Now I do get caught up again? And a belief that this is true?

Love,
Jadzia

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Gem47
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Re: donothing

Postby Gem47 » Sat Sep 01, 2018 6:43 pm

Hello Jadzia,
[Sometimes precision is needed together with the looking and observing.
Can intuition be really felt, as a physical sensation? Or is there a thought with the content “This feels like intuition”?/quote]

What do you mean by precision?
I'm not sure about whether intuition is felt or is just a thought, it's very difficult to know.
Define rubbish, please. What thoughts are rubbish and why?
For example, I frequently have thoughts reflecting on a conversation I've had earlier, re playing it, even though It was by no means of any importance. Also I often play out conversations I may have with someone in the future if I'm due to see or visit them. A lot of my thoughts have no use, they just seem to be constantly there.

[quoteDo thoughts have any power? Can they do something?
Can thoughts for example lift something by their power?
Can thoughts take something away? And of whom? ]
Fearful thoughts can definitely make the body tense, and happy thoughts can create a lighter feeling, so they do effect our frame of mind.
How can an illusion, which is something which is per definition not existent, be caught up in a thought or anything else?
I have thought a great deal about this and I suppose it implies we become part of the illusion if we respond in this way.

Love Margaret

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Jadzia
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Re: donothing

Postby Jadzia » Sat Sep 01, 2018 8:05 pm

What do you mean by precision?
I'm not sure about whether intuition is felt or is just a thought, it's very difficult to know.
By precision I mean to really look carefully, some things are difficult to know because they are easily overlooked.

Remember: something can be experienced via hearing, smelling, tasting, seeing, felt as a physical sensation ( or a thought.
So where can a feeling turn up? You can’t hear, smell, taste or see it – so it is either a physical sensation which is labeled feeling or it turns up as a word in thoughts, or?
Look for yourself, do you agree with this?
For example, I frequently have thoughts reflecting on a conversation I've had earlier, re playing it, even though It was by no means of any importance. Also I often play out conversations I may have with someone in the future if I'm due to see or visit them. A lot of my thoughts have no use, they just seem to be constantly there.
Ok, you mean the constant commentary thoughts offer.
Are you the thinker of these thoughts or do they just appear and disappear, without anyone, including you doing anything? Could a possible thinker be found in actual experience?
Does this thought chatter have any influence on your life?
Try not to do the thinking ABOUT but have a good look what you can find in your actual experience.
How can an illusion, which is something which is per definition not existent, be caught up in a thought or anything else?
I have thought a great deal about this and I suppose it implies we become part of the illusion if we respond in this way.
We are so used to thinking stuff through, but right now it is not the best choice.
You can’t find an I if you look into your actual experience – so it seems that it is only appearing in thought.
Can something illusionary/a word in a thought get caught up in a thought? I guess none of us could prove this by looking into the actual experience. ;-)

Love,
Jadzia

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Jadzia
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Re: donothing

Postby Jadzia » Tue Sep 04, 2018 5:09 am

How are you doing? Everythings alright?

Love,
Jadzia


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