What then?

[Helios]

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
I understand that this means there is no separate self, no ego, and the identity is an illusion

What are you looking for at LU?
To question my beliefs and challenge my perception of reality, in order to see the truth. Identify any blind spots that are keeping me from realizing the truth. Eliminate any limiting beliefs that are inaccurate

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
I expect challenging questions that provide pointers to the realization of the truth, which could be different than the truth I experience. Or perhaps these questions might point to the same truth that is perceived in my experience

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
I have been searching for the truth for over 30 years. I have had experiences that seemed to be transcending to a new realm of consciousness, but these could just be an illusion as well

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self? 11

[Bananafish]

Hi Helios, welcome to LU. :)

My name is Bananafish, and I'm one of the guides here.
I'd be more than glad to help you.

I expect challenging questions that provide pointers to the realization of the truth, which could be different than the truth I experience. Or perhaps these questions might point to the same truth that is perceived in my experience

Can we start by having a look at what you call " the truth I experience?"
Please write freely on this.


Looking forward to your reply!


Bananafish

[Helios]

Hello Bananafish, love the name.

Namaste
Let me start by saying, thank you for time, and your guidance.

As for the question, the truth I experience is simply this moment. Where it’s evident that the flow of creation is simply happening now... a flow that started with the Big Bang... energy, light, elements, gas, matter... stars, planets, galaxies... earth... water... life... nature... organisms... human. Evident from science... But humans, through experiences, coupled with genes, create an indentity, a human story... my story was... simply trying to survive... but there was a notion of god.then agony appeared... for several years... then everything lined up and a new perspective appeared, where the identity is an illusion... and all there is, is the conscious energy of creation... now admiration for everything every moment is felt... and gratitude is practiced

[Bananafish]

Thanks for the reply!

then everything lined up and a new perspective appeared, where the identity is an illusion... and all there is, is the conscious energy of creation... now admiration for everything every moment is felt... and gratitude is practiced

What do you mean by saying that "the identity is an illusion?" Could you elaborate, giving examples from your daily life, e.g., eating, walking, talking, etc.?


Also, can you rephrase what you call "conscious energy of creation" in a more mundane, plain way? Please give two or three examples.


Lastly, could you tell a bit more in details on "gratitude" that you practice?

[Helios]

The human identity is an illusion that projects independence and control of ones own destiny, when in reality, there is no independence nor control... the illusion projects independence from nature, and control over ones actions... but that is just an illusion produced through the combination of memories and genes... a phenomena... humanity is govern by the same cause and effect as the rest of the universe. Destiny is predetermined from cause and effect... It is seen in nature... the path of the wind, the waves of the sea, the movement of leaves, the sounds of nature... all happening now as a result of cause and effect that started 14.5 billion years ago... organisms doing what they were programmed to do... including man... birds flying, ants crawling, and humans living... all being part of creation... Everyday observance and enjoyment of each moment is experienced without an identity; while walking, eating, working... talking, laughing... doing what comes natural and focusing on the present...

As for the conscious energy of creation... it's another label for consciousness... everything in the universe is made of energy in different forms... energy flowing from the Big Bang... energy that is constant... cannot be destroyed nor created... energy that is in organisms and life forms... energy that generated the beginning, is constructing the present and will continue to create... this energy is conscious... since humans are conscious and part of this energy... this consciousness, or conscious energy, is always creating the present moment, subject to previous causes...

Regarding gratitude, I look at the moon and clouds... smell the trees... feel the wind... hear the sounds... and simply sense... simply sensing energy flowing... The feeling of praise and gratitude for this glory happens. The day starts with gratitude...

[Bananafish]

Everyday observance and enjoyment of each moment is experienced without an identity; while walking, eating, working... talking, laughing... doing what comes natural and focusing on the present...

When walking, what is walking?

this consciousness, or conscious energy, is always creating the present moment, subject to previous causes...

How is that “consciousness” perceived?
Is it different or separate from the “present moment” that is created?

Regarding gratitude, I look at the moon and clouds... smell the trees... feel the wind... hear the sounds... and simply sense... simply sensing energy flowing... The feeling of praise and gratitude for this glory happens. The day starts with gratitude...

Beautiful. :)
When sensing them, where is the sensor of the senses?

[Helios]

Walking is energy in motion. Obviously, energy is what is walking.

Consciousness is perceived through the senses, and it’s the same as the present moment

When sensing “them”... the sensor is nowhere in particular... and everywhere... an energy wave flowing at that instant

[Helios]

And gratitude is felt for the experience

[Bananafish]

Thank you. Could you describe what the “I” is when used in our everyday conversation?

[Helios]

It's a label that indicates an individual, a person, an identity, the ego... and other things

[Bananafish]

Thanks! Do you have anything in particular that you want to
explore further?

[Helios]

No... you tell me... what’s next?

[Helios]

No... you tell me... what’s next?

[Bananafish]

Ok, here are a set of questions for you. :)
You can put all the answers for each question
in one single post, or you can post them one by one.


1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form?
Was there ever?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience.
Describe it fully as you see it now.

3) How does it feel to see this?
What is the difference from before you started this dialogue?
Please report from the past few days.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

5) a) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control.
b) What makes things happen? How does it work?
c) What are you responsible for?
d) Give examples from experience.

6) Anything to add?

[Helios]

Talk about challenging questions. Thank you. I will start with short concise answers, please let me know if you want clarification or further explanation.

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? No
Was there ever? No

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience.
Describe it fully as you see it now. The illusion of the separate self starts right before language is learned, and the idea of being separate is encouraged... language produces concepts, one of which is the idea of individuality. This concept of individuality or separateness continues to expand, through experiences, coupled with social ideas, such as nationality, race, gender... humans are on automatic pilot, acting according to this psychological program... All that is now seen is energy flowing... everything following in a perfect predetermined path... with no difference between earth and sky... wind and sea... the elements, organisms, and stars

3) How does it feel to see this? Gratitude, reverence and peace
What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? No Difference
Please report from the past few days. The perception has not changed

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look? Pain was the catalyst that produced the perspective

5) a) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. Decision is a simple product of the program, which essentially eliminates any decision since there is no other way the organism could respond. Intention is a product of past experiences, and it is also on autopilot. There is no free will since the will is influenced by events of the past. All of this also applies to choice and control... they simply do not exist.
b) What makes things happen? The conscious energy of the universe
How does it work? It simply flows as a result of the initial cause...
c) What are you responsible for?d) I am responsible for nothing since "I" is an illusion.
Give examples from experience. Everything that I do, decide, choose, etc... is simply happening... it is experienced... but it is all automatic... there is no one doing anything... unless we call the conscious energy of the universe the entity that is doing everything... but even conscious energy is on predetermined path... in this particular universe

6) Anything to add? All this could also be a hallucination, or illusion... what do you think?