Go with the flow

This is a read-only part of the forum. All threads where seeing happens are stored here and come from this forum, the Facebook guiding area and various LU blogs. The complete list, sorted by guide, contains all links. The archives include threads of those that came to LU already seeing as well.
User avatar
conrad
Posts: 23
Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2017 3:48 am

Go with the flow

Postby conrad » Tue Jul 17, 2018 8:49 am

I started my journey toward the gate in August 2012, when I started on a Zazen course. Numerous meditations made me aware of my thoughts and feelings. I learned somehow to control my reactions on difficult feelings. I took a few years off, not completely though, but I meditated once of twice a month. I thought I was “cured”.

Back in 2017 I began reading about the concept of no self. At first it seemed very strange and a bit occult. I gave it a lot of energy, but I made it too complicated for myself. I just couldn’t understand it.

Then in March 2018 I hit an all-time low in my life and I knew that I had to do something. I knew I had to start working on my self-confidence. I was my own worst critic. My view on life was that I had to control everything, I had to impress others to feel some sort of fake confidence. I went way too far in trying to become appreciated by other people. And then one day I just started crying for hours and I broke down.

Inspired by the book “Love Yourself Like Your Life Depends On It” by Kamal Ravikant, I decided to start loving my self as I had never tried before. I began to repeat “I love my self” numerous times each day. When things were the worst, just saying “I love my self” worked wonders. At first it felt very strange and stupid, but I kept on. Things started to turn around, little by little. I began to believe that I had some sort of value. What I also stated to realise was, that it was not just my self that I loved, it was life itself. I started becoming aware of all the beauty in nature. I had a few moments where I truly felt connected with everything. But this was just the beginning.

Then I began rereading the book (http://ilonaciunaite.com/book/) by Ilona Ciunaite. Now things started to make sense. Realising that that thoughts and feelings are just additives to the raw experience of life. Thoughts and feelings are in my perspective flavours, they can be both very comforting and terrifying. But they are not the raw life, and everyone has a choice whether they want to include or exclude these flavours. The flavours will never disappear because they are a component of our physiology. The choice begins with becoming aware of this separation of raw life and the flavours.

Things in life just happen and no one knows what the day will bring. We are all pushed forward like people floating in a giant river. The ride can be fun, but it can also be the opposite. You can choose what kind of flavour to add to the ride, but you can’t control where you are going and how fast.

So why not just enjoy the ride while it lasts?

User avatar
Ilona
Site Admin
Posts: 7632
Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2011 1:57 pm
Location: Lithuania
Contact:

Re: Go with the flow

Postby Ilona » Sat Jul 21, 2018 2:25 pm

Hi Conrad, nice intro. Welcome to the forum.
We can have a conversation and see where it takes you.

Can you tell me what are you looking for? What do you hope for? What is that you want to happen as an outcome of this conversation?

Sending love.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com

User avatar
conrad
Posts: 23
Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2017 3:48 am

Re: Go with the flow

Postby conrad » Mon Jul 23, 2018 5:12 am

Dear Ilona

First of all, thank you for helping us all see the truth. I have a few questions, mostly out of curiosity. Concerning my situation, right now I’m adjusting to the new way of experiencing life.

It feels full and yet empty at the same time. Full because there are so many fantastic things to discover every day, things that I have somehow ignored or not appreciated all along. Also thoughts about how I have lived and understanding of why I have made the choices I have are entering my mind. I feel like I have lived inside a small cage since I was in my late teens. I see traveling as something that will enter my life soon.

It also feels empty, because I have given up hope. I don’t care much for the future anymore. Also the recurring feeling of that I had to keep progressing or be unsatisfied with life seems to have left. Those feelings have filled my life and it feels a bit empty without my old “pals”. I have to adjust to being relaxed and comfortable in doing absolutely nothing. Sometimes I have to laugh when those old nagging thoughts try to make me uncomfortable. There are so many ingrained feelings and routines that now seems totally ridiculous to me.

Back to my questions:
(1) Is the feeling of an established self something all cultures are struggling with? I mean is it a result of our western upbringing? Are there cultures where people doesn’t develop this self?

(2) I like to know how people who have been liberated for at least 3 years have lived since and how their lives have changed. What kind of new choices did they make and where did they go?

User avatar
Ilona
Site Admin
Posts: 7632
Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2011 1:57 pm
Location: Lithuania
Contact:

Re: Go with the flow

Postby Ilona » Tue Jul 24, 2018 11:22 pm

Hi Conrad,
Thank you for reply
It feels full and yet empty at the same time. Full because there are so many fantastic things to discover every day, things that I have somehow ignored or not appreciated all along. Also thoughts about how I have lived and understanding of why I have made the choices I have are entering my mind. I feel like I have lived inside a small cage since I was in my late teens. I see traveling as something that will enter my life soon.
Beautiful. Yes, there is so much to explore.
And the feeling of emptiness included too. Hope is a nice concept, for people that need to hold on to something. What was lost with letting go of hope, really?
Nice to notice how old patterns are no longer there and how redundant patterns are dropping off. It’s a whole process.

Regarding your questions, how would you answer them yourself? How is experience of others relevant to you? Can you know someone else’s experience?
I would say that your questions are invitation to create stories. Irrelevant. :)
Do you have a question that is still not solved? A real question, so to speak.

Sending love.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com

User avatar
conrad
Posts: 23
Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2017 3:48 am

Re: Go with the flow

Postby conrad » Sat Aug 04, 2018 6:45 am

Dear Ilona

Sorry for the delay but this is a process of uncovering ingrained thoughts and beliefs and thus behavior.
What have become fully apparent is that we’re all just biological organisms that to a very high degree are very similar. We are just animals doing our things. No one is better than someone else. What sets us apart is the conditions we are offered in the graphical space we living in. We like to believe that we are unique as persons and as a species. But in fact we are not.
Walking around and watching this animal, that I am myself, doing its thing knowing it’s all just a result of programming has led me to understand certain things about life.
I don’t blame people for making mistakes. It’s their programming. They have no influence in their decisions.
Criminal people are just following a program for surviving harsh conditions. They react on the conditions given.
That rich societies offer different conditions thus making the human animals react in different ways. They still don’t influence their decisions but they act less harmful and more beneficial to society.
That law and order is the foundation of great societies. Why? Because it sets certain restrictions around human behavior that benefits us all.
That humans aren’t good or bad. The animal does what it has to in terms of the programming it is built upon.
That no one has to feel ashamed for what they are doing. They have no choice but to follow along.
That religion is just a way to control the animals over vast distances where there is very little law and order.
Realizing that no one is better than the other. We are fundamentally equal.

All this makes me very comfortable.

“We are survival machines – robot vehicles blindly programmed to preserve the selfish molecules known as genes. This is a truth which still fills me with astonishment.”

Richard Dawkins, The Selfish Gene

User avatar
conrad
Posts: 23
Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2017 3:48 am

Re: Go with the flow

Postby conrad » Sat Aug 04, 2018 10:30 am

Acknowledging that life is this, concludes that there’s no more reason to be thinking about the no-self. Everything is very obvious and simple.

Also the guesswork is over. Just see and accept. Intellectualization of the this reality makes no point. It’s very clear.

All kinds of guilt and shame vapors in light of this.

Luckily there’s maybe 40 years left to explore reality freely and clearly.

Thanks for everything

User avatar
Ilona
Site Admin
Posts: 7632
Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2011 1:57 pm
Location: Lithuania
Contact:

Re: Go with the flow

Postby Ilona » Sat Aug 04, 2018 2:29 pm

Dear Conrad,
Thank you for reply and sharing your thoughts.
You say that we are just biological machines. That’s only if you are identified with the body. And yes, body is moving and doing what it is programmed to do.. it grows cells on its own, and beats heart on its own.
But you- are you the body?
You think this it it- to realise that there is no self is to see that all biological machines are running in an automatic fashion. That’s only half way.

Dare to venture further?

Much love.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com

User avatar
conrad
Posts: 23
Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2017 3:48 am

Re: Go with the flow

Postby conrad » Sun Aug 05, 2018 6:48 am

Dear Ilona,

Yes, of course I'm interested in venturing further down the rabbit hole :)

Concerning the body. The I, is just a construct (thought) and it is produced in the brain/body. The I is like a false hope of control. In reality control is never given, only pretended. Pretending having control leads to suffering like shame and guilt. Everything that the body does serves a single goal and that is to reproduce and secure offspring until they are ready to reproduce. That is apparent in every living creature. All sorts of instincts and human thought are circling around that one goal.

User avatar
Ilona
Site Admin
Posts: 7632
Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2011 1:57 pm
Location: Lithuania
Contact:

Re: Go with the flow

Postby Ilona » Sun Aug 05, 2018 2:03 pm

Good observations. Pretending having control leads to suffering- nicely put.
Everything that the body does serves a single goal and that is to reproduce and secure offspring until they are ready to reproduce. That is apparent in every living creature. All sorts of instincts and human thought are circling around that one goal
Possibly, but not as a rule. Some people don’t want kids and some can’t have them, so what is their goal?
What goal does a body have?

Keep digging :)
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com

User avatar
conrad
Posts: 23
Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2017 3:48 am

Re: Go with the flow

Postby conrad » Wed Aug 08, 2018 8:36 pm

Very hard question :)

Since I’m not my body and not my thoughts, I as a person don’t exist. The body does what it does as it is programmed to over millions of years. The goal of the body is to secure the continuation of our species.

So who decides not to have children? The body. Why? There can be multiple reasons. Illness, degraded DNA etc. Reasons that we don’t comprehend. For the people who choose not to have children, the decision seems to be their own. But it is not.

I saw a video with Alan Watts and he said that the I is something that exists below the consciousness. Having been unconscious a few times I can say that it is a nonexistent place without time. There is nothing. When I wake up I regain consciousness in this body.

Why am I bound to this body?

User avatar
Ilona
Site Admin
Posts: 7632
Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2011 1:57 pm
Location: Lithuania
Contact:

Re: Go with the flow

Postby Ilona » Wed Aug 08, 2018 10:48 pm

thank you for exploring this question.
can you tell me, how is that you are bound to the body? do you own the body? are you attached to the body? where is the body when eyes are closed, what is there? when you feel sensations, is it you that feels them or the body? is there a feeler at all? where in the body ( or outside of it ) is the i, the person, conrad?

explore these questions and write what you notice.

sending love
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com

User avatar
conrad
Posts: 23
Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2017 3:48 am

Re: Go with the flow

Postby conrad » Thu Aug 09, 2018 6:02 am

Dear Ilona

I had this experience:

Ilona, when you’re talking to me, aren’t you really talking to yourself? And when I talk to you, I talk to myself? That makes me experience that in fact we are really both the same.

Sorry if it all sounds too weird.

I will digg more. I just had to share the experience with you/me/us 😀

User avatar
Ilona
Site Admin
Posts: 7632
Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2011 1:57 pm
Location: Lithuania
Contact:

Re: Go with the flow

Postby Ilona » Thu Aug 09, 2018 10:52 pm

Nice. It’s not too weird. Thank you for sharing.
Ilona, when you’re talking to me, aren’t you really talking to yourself? And when I talk to you, I talk to myself? That makes me experience that in fact we are really both the same.
:) in fact there is no one talking. You are not talking to me, there is no ‘you’ that talks to ‘me’
Which really leads to there is nobody here talking to someone out there. We are both the same life expressing as the apparent forms. Life is. Separate parts are appearances of one energy.

What else do you notice?
Love.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com

User avatar
conrad
Posts: 23
Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2017 3:48 am

Re: Go with the flow

Postby conrad » Fri Aug 10, 2018 11:13 am

Noticing these things:

Time does not exist it’s an illusion, instead there is direction or movement.
That past and future is only exits in the brain owned by the body. So are worries, just thoughts owned by the body
Now is the only truth. it’s the only medium.
Life is indeed limitless.
Fractals everywhere. Hard to explain now.
Looking at the world is like looking at a mirror. Life is seeing, watching, smelling, tasting itself.
There is a deep loneliness but at the same time a profound connection to everything currently living.

A bit exhausted now... 😃

User avatar
Ilona
Site Admin
Posts: 7632
Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2011 1:57 pm
Location: Lithuania
Contact:

Re: Go with the flow

Postby Ilona » Tue Aug 14, 2018 9:36 pm

Thank you for reply and sorry for the delay with the answer.
Yes, everything is interconnected. Nothing exists on its own in a separate from the whole way. Life alive, complete.

You say that body owns thought. Is that true? What is relation to body and thought? Is body a thought, does it own a thought, is thought inside or outside the body?
Examine that and write what you notice.

Much love
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com


Return to “ARCHIVES”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 3 guests