No self to awaken

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FitnessGuy
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No self to awaken

Postby FitnessGuy » Sun Jun 24, 2018 11:16 pm

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
I understand that the self that folks identify with is ultimately just a thought built from past thoughts. An ego. It's easy to fall victim to thinking one is the ego, when in all reality it's just a character imaginated in thoughts. People, like animals and the weather, are experience happening.

What are you looking for at LU?
I'm looking for being pointed in the right direction of completely seeing through the illusion of the ego being me. I understand that there is no one to awake, and ultimately 'awakening' is just the realization that the 'I' doesn't really exist, but is just a thought of a character that is not real. I guess I want more experience with this.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
Simply put, being guided to ask quesrions of a separate self existing. I've already went through the whole app, so I already see more clearly. I guess I don't know what more really to say. I've been on this journey for sometime now and I can say that the app was very helpful.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
My experience falls in the lines of zen meditation, mindfulness meditation, mindful breathing, other mindfulness behaviors (eating, walking), New Thought, Dr. Wayne Dyer, Neville Goddard, Don Miguel Ruiz, and one of the most impactful authors on my beliefs is Eckhart Tolle. I recently saw him speak a few months ago in Chicago. I went through the whole Liberation Unleashed Enlightening Quotes app. Amazing self-inquiry! I'm very thankful for that.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self?
11

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Artst
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Re: No self to awaken

Postby Artst » Tue Jun 26, 2018 7:09 am

Hi, FitnessGuy,

Welcome to Liberation Unleashed :). Glad you made it here. 

My name is Robyn. I can be your guide if you like.
I've already went through the whole app, so I already see more clearly.
Great!

Should I call you FitnessGuy, or is there another name you would prefer?

Before we get started, here are some important preliminaries. 

During our conversation I will ask you a series of questions. For each, you will look at your own direct experience and answer with 100% honesty. I point. You look. You tell me what you see right there. Rinse & repeat. Simple :)

It is best to avoid analyzing, speculation and debate. It is vital that you really do each “experiment” I provide, answer each question and look at your direct experience — in the present moment — instead of relying on analytical thought or memory.

Please watch the below 30 second video to learn how to use the Quote function. This will assist us in having a clear dialogue around the questions and answers.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fAToDNh9hQ


During our conversation, please avoid any other teachings, spiritual books, writings, YouTube videos or talks. If you have a meditation practice, feel free to continue with it as usual.

Please make an effort to write here every day. This works best if we keep a constant focus on looking. If you are unable to do this on occasion, just let me know. I'll do the same for you. 

If you're okay with everything so far, let's start.

Warmly, 

Robyn
Bring Art to Life

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FitnessGuy
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Re: No self to awaken

Postby FitnessGuy » Wed Jun 27, 2018 1:18 pm

 I can be your guide if you like.
Yes I like that. 🙂
Should I call you FitnessGuy, or is there another name you would prefer?
You can call me Chris.

Thanks for working with me Robyn. I'm ready to start.

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Artst
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Re: No self to awaken

Postby Artst » Wed Jun 27, 2018 5:38 pm

HI, Chris,
Yes I like that. 🙂

Great. Let's get going!

The first thing to do is get your expectations 'out on the table.'

Please answer the following questions.

1) What do you expect to happen as a result of this? 

2) What do you want not to happen? 

3) What are you hoping for? 

4) Please make a list of the things that should be different when you realize there’s no separate self (that
weren't covered in the first 3 questions).

Sending love,

Robyn
Bring Art to Life

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FitnessGuy
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Re: No self to awaken

Postby FitnessGuy » Wed Jun 27, 2018 7:28 pm

1) What do you expect to happen as a result of this?
I expect that I won't identify with thoughts and emotions as "I".
2) What do you want not to happen? 
I want to have consistency of being in the moment and not getting wrapped up with identifying with thoughts about a fictitious "I".
3) What are you hoping for?
I'm hoping for complete liberation from identifying as an ego. I know that its essential to say "Hi my name is Chris and I do so and so for a living." We function this way, but I know it's just a story. I hope to be aware that it's just a story consistently.
4) Please make a list of the things that should be different when you realize there’s no separate self (that 
weren't covered in the first 3 questions).
-Lower anxiety caused taking the ego si seriously.
-Acceptance of what actually is, instead of resisting to what is by believing in a fairytale.
-I want to be more in the moment and less tied up with thoughts. I guess less attachment with thoughts.

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Artst
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Re: No self to awaken

Postby Artst » Thu Jun 28, 2018 5:19 am

Hi, Chris,

Thank you for your prompt reply and for sharing your expectations with me.

Having acknowledged them, the next thing to do is let go of your expectations. They may pop up as thoughts (and are likely to), but believing they should or will occur or that they are in any way a guideline for determining whether or not you're seeing, will get in the way. I'm going to assume you're willing to set them aside and proceed to the next question. Please let me know in your next reply if this is not the case and we'll do some more on this.

Chris, If you look for the I, what is there? Will you please describe what you find?

Sending love,

Robyn
Bring Art to Life

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FitnessGuy
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Re: No self to awaken

Postby FitnessGuy » Thu Jun 28, 2018 1:31 pm

 I'm going to assume you're willing to set them aside and proceed to the next question. Please let me know in your next reply 
Yes I am willing to set aside expectations.
Chris, If you look for the I, what is there? Will you please describe what you find? 
Well at first I try and I identify my body with the I, but it's a body. Then I try and identify my thoughts of awareness of my thoughts and surroundings an I, but those are just thoughts.

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Artst
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Re: No self to awaken

Postby Artst » Thu Jun 28, 2018 3:47 pm

Hi, Chris,
Yes I am willing to set aside expectations.
Great.
Well at first I try and I identify my body with the I, but it's a body. Then I try and identify my thoughts of awareness of my thoughts and surroundings an I, but those are just thoughts.
Well done. When you write, "I try," do you find anything in reality to which this "I" refers? Is it anything more than a label?

Sending love,

Robyn
Bring Art to Life

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FitnessGuy
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Re: No self to awaken

Postby FitnessGuy » Thu Jun 28, 2018 7:28 pm

When you write, "I try," do you find anything in reality to which this "I" refers? Is it anything more than a label?
No, I don't find anything, no separate character to point at. It's just a thought in the form of a label of "my" thoughts. But even then, they're just thoughts.

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Artst
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Re: No self to awaken

Postby Artst » Thu Jun 28, 2018 7:49 pm

Hi, Chris,
No, I don't find anything, no separate character to point at. It's just a thought in the form of a label of "my" thoughts. But even then, they're just thoughts.
Excellent.

What controls thoughts?

What about decisions - what chooses or makes decisions?

How about actions -- what controls actions?

I look forward to finding out what you see.

Enjoy!

Sending love,

Robyn
Bring Art to Life

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FitnessGuy
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Re: No self to awaken

Postby FitnessGuy » Thu Jun 28, 2018 8:23 pm

What controls thoughts? 
When looking to see what controls thoughts, even if 'I'm' thinking that 'I' control the thoughts, those are just more thoughts. It just seems that there is no 'controller' of thoughts, but the thoughts themselves.
What about decisions - what chooses or makes decisions? 
This is where 'my' thoughts start tricking 'me'. I know that there is really no 'me' to trick, because after all it's just more thoughts. I identify as the 'decision-maker', or at least the mind and body working together to function as the 'desicision-maker'. This is where I get wrapped up into these thoughts and labeling. As having the profession of a fitness coach, I coach people and myself to make better decisions, so I'm so used to identifying these labels and claims as "you control the situation" and it starts to get confusing with questions like this.
How about actions -- what controls actions? 
This again is where it gets tricky for me. I know that 'my' name is just a label given by my parents and is really meaningless. I understand the absurdity in so many labels. But, when I go back to fitness coaching or fitness training for my own purposes, let's say I have the thought of doing a certain exercise for a certain purpose. I feel like the thought in 'my' mind sends the command for the body to take action. So, is it the mind and body that controls actions? Maybe I'm being to analytical.

I want to thank you so much for working with me Robyn. I appreciate you. 🙂

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FitnessGuy
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Re: No self to awaken

Postby FitnessGuy » Thu Jun 28, 2018 8:25 pm

What controls thoughts? 
When looking to see what controls thoughts, even if 'I'm' thinking that 'I' control the thoughts, those are just more thoughts. It just seems that there is no 'controller' of thoughts, but the thoughts themselves.
What about decisions - what chooses or makes decisions? 
This is where 'my' thoughts start tricking 'me'. I know that there is really no 'me' to trick, because after all it's just more thoughts. I identify as the 'decision-maker', or at least the mind and body working together to function as the 'desicision-maker'. This is where I get wrapped up into these thoughts and labeling. As having the profession of a fitness coach, I coach people and myself to make better decisions, so I'm so used to identifying these labels and claims as "you control the situation" and it starts to get confusing with questions like this.
How about actions -- what controls actions? 
This again is where it gets tricky for me. I know that 'my' name is just a label given by my parents and is really meaningless. I understand the absurdity in so many labels. But, when I go back to fitness coaching or fitness training for my own purposes, let's say I have the thought of doing a certain exercise for a certain purpose. I feel like the thought in 'my' mind sends the command for the body to take action. So, is it the mind and body that controls actions? Maybe I'm being to analytical.

I want to thank you so much for working with me Robyn. I appreciate you. 🙂

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Artst
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Re: No self to awaken

Postby Artst » Thu Jun 28, 2018 11:28 pm

Hi, Chris,
This is where 'my' thoughts start tricking 'me'. I know that there is really no 'me' to trick, because after all it's just more thoughts. I identify as the 'decision-maker', or at least the mind and body working together to function as the 'desicision-maker'. This is where I get wrapped up into these thoughts and labeling. As having the profession of a fitness coach, I coach people and myself to make better decisions, so I'm so used to identifying these labels and claims as "you control the situation" and it starts to get confusing with questions like this.
Here's an exercise to help with this.

First - Place both hands on a table in front of you, palms down.
Then - When you have done that, rest for a moment and then raise one hand in the air but not the other.

Don't go to thoughts, examine your direct experience. Do this as many times as you like, and each time inquire:-

1. What is it exactly that is choosing which hand to raise?

2, Can you find a separate individual or anything that is doing the choosing?

3, What is it that is controlling the hand?

4 Can a ‘controller’ of any description be located?

5. Can anything be found that makes the hand move?

6. How is the decision made?

I look forward to hearing what you discover.

Sending love,

Robyn
Bring Art to Life

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FitnessGuy
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Re: No self to awaken

Postby FitnessGuy » Fri Jun 29, 2018 12:58 am

1. What is it exactly that is choosing which hand to raise?
The hand is moving. Whether I do or don't have a thought of the hand moving, or there is a separate thought altogether with nothing to do with the hand moving, the hand still moves.
2, Can you find a separate individual or anything that is doing the choosing? 
No I can't. Even me typing right now. It's happening without a thought going "okay man, now type this."
3, What is it that is controlling the hand? 
This it where I kind of get confused on how to explain it. I see that there is no separate "controller", but the hand just automatically acts. I know the action that is taking place, but I know there is no thought needed to take the action of the hand. I can even think "raise the left hand", but keep it down and raise the right hand instead.
4 Can a ‘controller’ of any description be located?
No there isn't a controller of any kind that can be located. I even go back to me typing right now and how the typing kind of automatically happens without an 'I' giving demands to make it happen. But, would the body and the mind be their own controllers that can work in conjunction with each other? Or considered tools?
5. Can anything be found that makes the hand move? 
No. The hand moves the hand.
6. How is the decision made?
It just seems like "decision" is just another label for things happening. I mean, I am deciding to type right now thinking-wise, but I don't really even need to think about it when I'm typing. Kind of like I don't need to think about it when I'm hearing a song. The hearing just happens.

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Artst
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Re: No self to awaken

Postby Artst » Fri Jun 29, 2018 3:29 am

HI, Chris,
This it where I kind of get confused on how to explain it.
This is report of what? Direct Experience or thought content? Is there an 'I' to get confused? What is is that is asking to explain anything?
I see that there is no separate "controller", but the hand just automatically acts. I know the action that is taking place, but I know there is no thought needed to take the action of the hand. I can even think "raise the left hand", but keep it down and raise the right hand instead.
No confusion.

Direct Experience is the access to reality. Thoughts say many things that don't bear up under scrutiny. Like "I" for instance. 😉

You're doing great, Chris.

Sending love,

Robyn
Bring Art to Life


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